Palestine/Israel Conflict

At the beginning of the Israel-Gaza war, I published this poster and many people criticized this poster as not true and that Israel is not committing genocide (or at least Hamas has committed genocide).
I don’t know, do you still believe that Israel is a country that is defending itself?

Moderator note: removed a portion making claims without sources

If you think there is no news in Palestine and Gaza, just open Twitter and search for #Gaza.
(This text is translated, and my original language is not English)

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Discussing this topic is allowed, but past experience has taught that the way it is discussed is often extremely bad. The moderators will be watching this thread closely.

  • It is required that statements be factual- or that statements presented as facts, not opinion, be validated by trustworthy sources. If you can’t find a credible source, say “I think” or “in my opinion”. Conspiracy theories, propaganda, and lies are not allowed.
  • It is required to avoid personal attacks on forum members, insults, threats, hateful speech, and harassment.
  • It is required to be civil and constructive even when disagreeing.
  • It is strictly forbidden to share images, videos, or links containing graphic violence including but not limited to: battlefield footage, torture, or any depiction of human suffering.
  • It is required to follow these guidelines and any forthcoming additional guidelines from any moderator.

Failure to follow these rules will result in account restrictions if needed. If you disagree with these rules and do not intend to follow them, you may not participate in this thread.

This a zero tolerance situation, we’ve seen these types of threads before and we will not be having a repeat of what usually happens.

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Come on, mate, do you realise how ridiculous this sounds? How do you expect people to respond to you is you make blanket statements like this? Based on what? How many countries in Europe have you lived in?

There has been non-stop protest marches of support for the Gazans, every single day, and in practically every western country, since the day of the Hamas attack. London is brought to a standstill every single weekend.
And I’ll also add that many of these marches are being organised by Islamists who openly support Hamas and publicly chant for the extermination of the Jews and the destruction of the Isreali state.
Just this week there have been large, armed, gangs of Islamists roaming the streets of England chanting jihadi war slogans, hunting for non-Muslims.
What do you think would happen if armed Christian gangs were roaming through the streets of Tehran, chanting anti-Muslim war cries and hunting for Muslims to attack? They would be hung from the nearest crane.

For all its many faults, the '‘west’ is far more tolerant and altruistic, towards non-natives especially, than any other countries in the world. So tolerant in fact, that we would rather see our own cultures and histories and traditions eradicated than to appear to offend people from different cultures that live in our countries.

Where were all the protests of outrage when Muslims were killing other Muslims? In Syria? In Yemen? In Iraq? Over 1 million Muslims have been killed in these conflicts by other Muslims, yet not a single protest from any other Muslim country? This is proof that Muslims don’t care about the plight of the Gazans either. You never have. They have always been a useful scapegoat in the Muslim world to use as a stick to beat the Israelis with.

Yes, it’s disgusting what is happening to the Gazans at the hands of the Israeli state, but what did they think was going to happen when they did what they did on Oct 7th? And we know that the Iranian regime funded those attacks, in the full knowledge that it was going to bring an absolutely brutal response from Israel.
Hamas are to blame for the pight of the Gazans. They were given control of Gaza 20 years ago, with astronomically funding. They could have turned the place into a paradise, like Beirut used to be before it was destroyed by Islamic militias (also funded by Iran, by the way), but no, they didn’t spend that money on education and women’s rights and infrastructure and building peaceful relations with Israel. They put every single ounce of their dedication and devotion into the destruction of Israel. They spent it all on weapons. One of the Hamas leaders that was assassinated in Beirut a few months back had 5 BILLION $$$ in his personal bank accounts, at a time when Gazans had food, water, and medical supply shortages. Yes, I’m sure he really gave a sh*t about the Gazans too…

There is no excuse for what Israel is engaged in. There are insane fanatics on both sides who have a hatred for each other that is barely human.
I visited Israel back in 2017 as I have a great love of history and I was also trying to learn more about the post 1948 history of the place. And one of the things that always stuck with my was WHY? Why can’t these people all just live in peace together? There’s enough land for everyone. It’s in a beautiful location on the Mediterranean. Great weather. Mediterranean lifestyle and food. Etc. But that’s naive. That’s idealistic. There will never be peace in that region because there is so much ideological hatred. It’s a hatred that goes far, far beyond any sort of human logic.

I went on to a few middle eastern websites. Funnily enough, I didn’t see any Ukrainian colours on the site logos. What’s up with that, eh? Do you not care about Europeans?

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Hamas shouldn’t be committing genocide against Israelis or Jewish people in general, the Netanyahu regime shouldn’t be committing genocide against Palestinians. The tags I’m using on tumblr are #genocidal bigotry #always wrong #no matter what #no matter who – I’ve been trying not to get baited into Islamophobia, antisemitism, or any other bigotry, but it’s not easy when expressing anything less than rabid fury gets condemned as complicity.

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Thank you for providing sources. It’s an admirable example to follow

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This is a huge issue right here, in the sense that criticising political and ideological behaviours of either of these groups immediately results in these ‘catch-all’ phrases - that have been specifically designed to end any honest inquiry, debate, or discussion - been brandished.

How on earth can ANY of these issues be peacefully resolved if they can’t even be discussed?

What do they even mean? Both groups are semitic? Islam is an ideology, so how on earth can it be ‘phobic’ to voice concerns or opinions on an idea? It doesn’t even make any sense.
How many times do we have to hear that criticising the actions of the Israeli state is ‘antisemitic’? Or that criticising Islam is ‘racist’, when Islam isn’t a race, it’s an idea?

Looking at social media in this age feels like I’m in some sort of parallel universe, where the established laws of logic and language have lost all meaning.

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This kind of propaganda has no business here.

Israel was attacked and they are defended themselves. That’s been the repeated story of the past fifty years.

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Actually, decisive claims stated as facts without sources are what have no place here:

Discussing this is allowed. Discussing it incorrectly is not.

As I said, currently @KickAir_8P is doing an excellent job showing how to talk about this. Everyone else should follow their example more closely

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Nah, I won’t have this kind of absurdity on my forum of choice. The history of colonialism in Palestine is very well documented, the death toll since last november is absurdly high, what has been going on is no less than ethnic cleansing. If you choose not to see this, you’re an accomplice.

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Here again, this could use a source… well documented it may be, but saying it’s well documented isn’t the same as providing documentation

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God himself does not force people to believe in him. why should others people believe your “facts” blindly just because you said them…

Hey, no personal attacks. We’re 11 replies in and so far only one person has paid a semblance of attention to the guidelines for discussion provided. This is my last polite verbal warning, after this posts will start getting removed if needed

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Yep, 100%.

On Oct. 7th 2023 … Israel said enough already! And, return our people!!

As of July 24, 2024 115 of the 251 civilians are still being held captive. 115!

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I’m not sure how is this a personal attack ? I’m really curious, sorry in advance, but I truly don’t see it?
edit: I see it now. Although at the time, I didn’t mean it that way :grimacing:

Just for your information, I’m Egyptian, I live in Egypt, and my grandmother was Palestinian. My uncle was arrested by King Hussein as part of the Palestinian resistance/ gang’s during Black_September and was tortured in prison for six months before being released … and even I can’t say Palestinian are only victims in this war…

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I wouldn’t exactly call Wikipedia a trustworthy source when it comes to highly inflammatory political issues.

It’s always going to be difficult to provide 100% unbiased evidence and facts. This most recent flare-up in this EXTREMELY complicated conflict - both historically and politically - has been the definition of the term ‘truth is the first victim of war’.

Both sides in this have been pumping out non-stop propaganda, misinformation, and outright falsehoods to demonise the other side. This is expected in any conflict, but they really have taken it to another level this time.

The entire history of this conflict is a massive grey area. I honestly don’t think that anyone who knows the history can ‘take a side’ in such a black and white way. It’s just too convoluted. The entire thing is a moral black hole. When warfare reaches this level of savagery, those who take a firm moral stance on one side are guilty of ignoring the atrocities on the other.

I’d like to recommend these 3 excellent books on the broader subject of the region.
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That and the fact that there would not be a more effective way to outright kill off BA as a viable community than to allow it to become a circular firing squad of everyone accusing others of disinformation (with the mods involved as well).

This can be seen now since these threads almost always cause people to either pack up and leave or reduce their activity to lurking.

The point being, that unless you can prove the existence of Vulkan DNA in your blood, there is no such thing as a person who will present things in a completely unbiased manner. We all grow up being taught certain things (whether it be at home or at school) and it is natural human tendency to reflect that when talking about global events.

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How is saying “you must have a source” taking a side?

To reiterate- no source, no comments. If that’s not acceptable to someone, then this thread is not for them. The conditions for participation here are clear, stated, and non-negotiable. As also clearly previously stated:

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yea, my bad. I simply won’t participate further, this isn’t good for my heart anyway.

I didn’t say that, at all. I’ve no idea how you got that from what I posted?

Well, to follow you own rules, how can we be sure that these wikipedia entries are factual? Surely we need a source proving it? See, it quickly collapses on itself.

These rules are anti-critical thinking, this is not in the spirit of the ancient tradition of rhetoric.

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