Project Looking Glass

Maybe you’ve heard of sun’s very nice looking desktop called Project Looking glass?

Well, they GPLed it. It’s far from done but I’m downloading the JDK to play around with it now.

Looks very interesting.

Dev site: https://lg3d.dev.java.net/
Project sites @ sun.com: http://wwws.sun.com/software/looking_glass/

And a news story at /. and OSnews:


http://www.osnews.com/story.php?news_id=7530

IMAO: a waste of my cpu cycles, better spent on other things. But it’s sexy and who doesn’t drool over sexy? 8)

it looks like a really good idea. i can already think of ways to make it better though. i envision something that looks more like a scene out of ‘tron’

ok well it currently sounds like a piece of BS. LOL

the ideas they have now from that sun site are

What if your CD or movie database became a 3D jukebox, where titles were joined with images to make finding what you want easier than ever?

well lets look at any current application for music…album art? yeah its there. this idea to me means nothing.

also note that Windows (longhorn) was going to have a 3d windows environment, but Microsoft got insulted heavily for the idea and totally dropped the idea from their devleopment issue, (the public betas) and were said to be contemplating dropping it from their final release also.

so the idea of ti is not new.

furthermore is based on JAVA, OMG that is grose, java is a reasource hog (untill it gets proper cross platform compatibility rather than using virtual machines to run)

idea of a 3d desktop i think could be done very very well, being able to grab a window and tuck it behind another (also shinking it in 2d space as it goes back) using openGL acceleration or another hardware thing would IMO be really nice.

having desktops that are full 3d environments would be very sexy, imagine having desktop icons in 3d space, your desktop image is a fantasy lant with a tree, and a mushroom with a small cottage in it. you could drop your icon on the toad stool, or hang it from the tree. you could rotate your desktop image and get different environments, you could place a window somewhere and anotehr window somewhere else and all sorts.

but the screenshot i saw was early early stages and IMO ugly.

still looks very very 2 dimensional, planes are just warped (this can be done in 2d) when a window has actual 3d depth like buttons stick outwards (on angles when veiwing and such) and the window has a depth, things can be stacked in bookshelves and pulled out. this kind of thing.

Alltaken

Alltaken

I agree with Alltaken. And there have already been programs out there that give you 3D desktops. I had one where you could actually walk around in an enviroment and your windows where placed in different places, but it was a resource hog, so I uninstalled it. IMO any program like this hogs way to many resources, there is no point in using it.

Check this out: Metisse, screenshots.

Well, I’ve already tried it. It’s works ok so how can it be BS? I’ve also tried Metisse and it’s definitely cool too.

also note that Windows (longhorn) was going to have a 3d windows environment, but Microsoft got insulted heavily for the idea and totally dropped the idea from their devleopment issue, (the public betas) and were said to be contemplating dropping it from their final release also.

They haven’t dropped anything, the public betas has the old XP-gui yet.

so the idea of ti is not new.

Definitely not, and definitely not founded by MS.

furthermore is based on JAVA, OMG that is grose, java is a reasource hog (untill it gets proper cross platform compatibility rather than using virtual machines to run)
It’s a resource hog because of your experiences with?..Applets?..lol

idea of a 3d desktop i think could be done very very well, being able to grab a window and tuck it behind another (also shinking it in 2d space as it goes back) using openGL acceleration or another hardware thing would IMO be really nice.
Looking Glass is drawn using opengl, as is metisse, as is the next version of Xorg (atleast what I’ve heard).

but the screenshot i saw was early early stages and IMO ugly.
But did you try it?

still looks very very 2 dimensional, planes are just warped (this can be done in 2d) when a window has actual 3d depth like buttons stick outwards (on angles when veiwing and such) and the window has a depth, things can be stacked in bookshelves and pulled out. this kind of thing.
Ohh man, you really should try this instead of guessing.

CPU?..Are you using CPU to display OpenGL?.. What’s your GPU doing right now? (probably Blending, and there goes my argument…but anyway)

well i looked at the screenshots, if the screenshots don’t show the best of somthing i am not going to try it to find out, i am going to base my entire judgement on the advertising they give me.

from what i saw it was not yet good.

as for the java thing, no i was not thinking of applets, i was infact thinking of software that is coded in java. every layer of translation between the CPU and the GUI is going to add in slowness etc…

Alltaken

I have not missed any 3d functionality in my computer. But maybe that is partly beacause I always work in fullscreen.
The reason I do not like the idea has not to with the fact that it take resources, since most of the time I do not use them anyway, but with the fact that it would be annoying to have to think in 3d.

I don’t know. Wouldn’t a 3D user interface slow down a person’s ability to use a computer, having to think and move around in 3D? Wouldn’t it also create a whole new set of frustrations for computer users when the 3D aspect causes confusing problems (something rotated in a way that’s difficult to see or control). 2D has worked great for years (computers, telephone dials, newspapers, etc). I’m not sure if everyone would enjoy a 3D computing experience…

… although being able to scale windows down, so they are smaller instead of cropped, would be nice.

oh shit that would be difficult wouldn’t it…

Alltaken

The problem IMHO is not about the 3D layout and all the sexy gizmos, but with the 2D screen and mouse control. Do that with a 3D spacial projection with 3D pointing tool (space glove or whatever) and it would be so much better.

Martin

<irony>Yeah, I never buy those videogames either. It’s more than enough to look at the screenshots back on the box. Sometimes I even move the box while doing soundeffects with my mouth. boom bang or wroooooom…It gives me quite a rush.</irony>

I used a 3d filesystem browser once and it just caused more trouble. All the data gets transformed to 2D anyway because we only have 2D screens. The fact that computers can simulate 3D is good for games and animations because it gives extra realism but it doesn’t give us any more space to put things. When objects are put into 3D, objects behind other solid objects are put out of view. This same thing happens with the 2D setup.

The thing is, it depends on what you mean by 3D. Essentially, I already have a 3D desktop because I can put windows behind others. I have x,y placement and a z-buffer. I also have expose, which zooms windows in the equivalent of the z-axis so that full windows are placed side by side. And it’s all done in OpenGL:

“In the next update (Mac OS X 10.2) Jaguar Quartz Extreme uses OpenGL just like any other application. Thus the Macintosh desktop is transformed into a 3D OpenGL scene, regardless if any elements are in 3D. Everything you see will be a textured polygon with compositing via blending and multitexture.”

That came from this link:

http://www.architosh.com/news/2002-08/2002c-0802-sig-quartz-x.phtml

It may not look like a 3D scene but that’s because desktops work better when they act like 2D. It might look fancy rotating a movie player 45 degrees into the screen but what purpose would it serve? It’s the same with my Mac. The fast user switching places the current desktop onto a cube and rotates it. It looks cool but it still just switches user.

Also, the argument about the performance is difficult because systems as slow as a 233MHz imac can run Mac OS X. It depends on how you use the 3D system that’s important. In the traditional setup, 2D-style windows render pretty quickly on hardware. It’s when you do all sorts of fancy effects that slows it down and usually they are unnecessary, which is why Mac OS X uses them sparingly. I run Blender and when I play some games, they run up to 60fps and higher, while the desktop is rendered in hardware in the background.

I think that 3D desktops might be useful if we ever get 3D holographic projection where we will be able to lay out objects in a volume than on a 2D screen but for now, I’ll stick with the 2D layout and the fancy 3D special effects because it works.

Also, I think that to implement such a system in Java is a bit daft. Maybe not if they using the JavaGL binding but then it’s being rendered in OpenGL like Quartz, in which case it’s been done before. It would be madness to do 3D stuff in Java software. Desktop operations require speed and things like finding files would just take far too long. Imagine if you had a full 100 GB hard drive and it took 3 minutes to search the files. In Java, that would take half an hour. No thanks.

Well the vision is 2d too, we can se a depth, but that is just as another channel except the one we already have(RGB -> RGBZ) And that can be faked using those 3dglases if you would want. but as of yet there are no good 3d-glasses sollution, so that will have to wait.

I don’t think they meant software rendering using java. And java is not as slow as people think, it can be optimized to be much faster than you see in those java applets, otherwise it would not be used by as many big corporations on serverside as it is today.

Thinking of the nice 3D user-interfaces I have seen in some movies (lawnmower man for example) I can seriously think of some benefits. Even though a screen is 2D, being able to put things foreground/background with perspective and being able to zoom in and out of this third dimension would be very usefull. However I don’t see it working really well in the way of using a basic windowing system. I think the whole user-interface needs to be redesigned. I also agree that we need a 3D pointing device for it.

What do you use the computer for?
I use it for editing pictures, browsing the web, chatting, games, programming , instaling(I install a linux in a half year :)) and ofcourse blender.
In none of the above I can see any benefit of 3d interface, actually not even any benefit of zooming. It is even so that when doing some of the above it would be annoying with 3d(think of trying to model and suddenly notice that the blenderpane is skew and you will have to redo)

In all honesty, I think a 2D GUI has some of it’s own disadvantages when it comes to speed and ease of use – nevermind 3D. For instance, it is often a lot faster and easier to just do things with a console, because you don’t have to wait for animation and you don’t have to move any mouse cursor around. It seems I spend a lot more time moving my mouse all over the screen than it actually takes to do things with my computer. If everything was in 3D it would take even longer to do even the simplest tasks!

well i looked at the screenshots, if the screenshots don’t show the best of somthing i am not going to try it to find out, i am going to base my entire judgement on the advertising they give me.

[/quote]
<irony>Yeah, I never buy those videogames either. It’s more than enough to look at the screenshots back on the box. Sometimes I even move the box while doing soundeffects with my mouth. boom bang or wroooooom…It gives me quite a rush.</irony>[/quote]

Seriously, eric, you don’t understand a thing of what alltaken is saying.

If we take that video game exemple…if I look at some screenshot on the net of the game…and the game looks damn ugly and not soo pratical to us…I won’t go buy it because I don,t want to lose my money on something “I think” will be bad. And, from my point of view, that thing they are doing DO look bad…very bad at the moment. So I won’t download it for the moment and I won’t lose my time trying to figure out if I like it or not…for the moment…it just look plain bad.

yeah its the same with everything in life.

ugly girls (yeah they might have nice personalities but do people on hotornot care??)

election candidates. george won, but he is still dumb LOL (opinion of course)

yoghurt- poos and wees flavour i am not gonna buy, even if it might taste exotic :stuck_out_tongue:

Alltaken