Real debate on society and morals

hey well i havn’t even botherd to read everyones replys coz i know it will just waste my time LOL.

but i think that society today has become rather depressing with morals, values, expectations, goals, attitudes, and behaviour.

people are now.
selfish, uncareing, unthoughtfull, dangerous to self and others.

i personally will not
have sex with anyone i do not love
drink to get drunk (i don’t drink much LOL)
smoke
kill another person or animal (i felt like s hit killing a mouse the other day LOL)
mistreat someone intentionally (and often i think about things so i wouldn’t mistreat someone unintentionally either)
do drugs

the list goes on.

i think that people have lost common sense and this world is a piece of crap on the whole.

killings are massivly high in the US while in canada they are low (because of society)

and the thing is the world is becoming more americanised every day. (which is scary)

now i’m not trying to bash the us here, but us culture on FACTUAL and STATISTICAL calculations in a pretty dangerous place to live, more so than most other 1st world countries. and the world is close behind and blindly following.

so yes this world is in a crisis of sorts but i think there will become a point where is reverses and innocents will beome the fashion. with sluts violence and whores becoming the norm, then the minority that is innocent people will become desirable and the society will become safer and nicer.

well i dream of a day.

Alltaken

Alltaken:

i think there will become a point where is reverses and innocents will beome the fashion. with sluts violence and whores becoming the norm,

I assume you meant ‘ignorants’ and not innocents? If that’s the case I reckon you were asleep when it happened.

And the poor, innocent, defenceless little mouse you killed, was that Micky?

%<

I’m afraid I can’t erase those question marks… That’s for two reasons:

  1. I am not yelling at you… This is how I’m accustomed to “write”… Using multiple punctuation marks… :stuck_out_tongue: :stuck_out_tongue: :stuck_out_tongue: I can’t help it… Sorry… :stuck_out_tongue: :stuck_out_tongue: :stuck_out_tongue: :stuck_out_tongue:

  2. (Most important…) My post is nor the product of ignorance, nor misunderstood/mistaken…

My point is not that there is the possibility that you might be wrong, once in a while… My point is that I think you are misunderstanding acasto’s behavior towards you right now…

You quoted almost everything from my post, but the most important…

IMHO acasto’s words towards you are motivated out of his concerne about you…

Not because he wants to purposely insult you…

He may have the right, he may not… That’s a different subject…

But please, if I’m right and he actually says all these things because he cares about you, I think you should change a little bit the way you are thinking about him right now…

Ofcourse I could be wrong…

In any case I think it’s about time you both burry this “axe of war”…

Peace to all… :smiley:

Spyros.

[quote=“Al_Capone”]

I would like to see you off it.[/quote]

you are so childish.

this conversation just flushed itself…

so i would first like to say to copone:

learn english better. please, until you do, you’ve lost credibility with me.

to blengine:

well, i have personal experiance with someone who is bi-polar, and i know that the meds are what keep them on track, not the other way around. the meds are not the ones talking.

to everyone:

acasto has something in his mind that i’m not sure is anywhere near explainable. it’s something that can be a curse, and can be a blessing. people who go on meds usually don’t like it. becasue when someone is bi-polar, they get the drive, some kind of energy that can keep them awake, and tireless for sometimes days. they can get things done that might take hours in only minutes. then they sink into a deep depression.

many times the doctors only give them anti-depressents, which can make things even worse.

don’t tell him he’s got something wrong, or that maybe he’s a retard. he’s not. i know people like this, it’s incredibly hard to deal with. these people are intelligent, thoughtful, and capable, among many other things.

they are normal human beings

so stop this irrelavent BS.

I did not attack you. You are acting like a classic bipolar who’s afraid to take meds. You are simply trying to justify to yourself that you are okay without meds.

You think I’m acting like a know-it-all? Then go ask a psychologist, then lets see what they have to say about your behavior. Even just your language and attitude makes clear view of your condition.

I did not use the term dropout as an insult, but merely as a point relevant to your attitude. If you look at everything I said, I never really attacked you. You just felt that way. It is up to you to figure out why.

Actually, you know why you felt threatened, you just don’t want to admit it.

Have you ever heard of cataract surgery? Or perhaps the act of wiping the moisture off the mirror when you get out of the show, so that you can see yourself?

Your fear and dis-like of meds is even relevant in your art. Like the homeless guy shooting up in the alley. I remember once you even mentioned your dis-like of chemicals in a caption of that pic.

If you’ve studied up on bipolar, then you do know that the mindset of the condition tries to defend itself, don’t you? Chemicals would alter that mindset, it would threaten it, which causes the bipolar to react.

one could be bad at english but great at debate… on the other hand, one could be great at english and stink at debate… which one of you deserves more credibility? :wink:

anyhoo, as backup proof that meds do the talking:

so its obvious some of his newfound revelations are due to taking those pills… he admits his thoughts are different thus his words are different… it is the pills that help do the talking, again thats not necessarily bad! but again it is true[/quote]

the pills don’t alter the way he sees things directly. all they do is level out the chemicals in the brain.

this then allows him to see things from a more normal point of view if you will.

i am concerned that he is on pills, is my concern ignorant? maybe… he is concerned i am not on the pills, is his concern ignorant? maybe… who is to say? whether or not someones concern exists does not matter, its how its carried out which is most important, and to carry it out with personal attacks makes it pretty obvious the concern is ignorant, and frankly uncaring to begin with

This is the route of your arguement… And frankly I’m with him on this… I think you should give it a chance… If you don’t want to listen, it’s fine with me… It’s your problem, your life and you’re not that close to me in order to feel guilty for not doing something… If you were, I would most probably act the same way as acasto is right now… The difference is that maybe acasto feels that you’re close to him, for some reason (can’t tell for sure…)… That’s why he is so persistent…

now i can clearly tell that you are concerned about us, you didnt resort to attacking us, and are very calm with your words…

Maybe I don’t care enough… Cause in such a case, maybe you would hear “poisonous” words coming out from my lips, in case I find something wrong in your attitude… But that would be (honestly :|) out of my sincere concerne… Maybe that’s acasto’s case as well…

concern is only as important as the foundation it is built on… if its built upon a pompous ignorant egotistical judgement, then it is worthless… if its built upon thought, true caring emotions, and an open mind to the possiblity of being false, then it is open for acception

Don’t expect from the people that care about you to always be pleasant… Sometimes they say things that we don’t like… They may as well be wrong… But that doesn’t mean that they want to hurt us…

even if he is concerned, can you not see that i might be as well? this road of possibility is not ‘one way’… i want to open his mind to this possiblity, not concrete scientific facts, to all possibility, is that not concern?

I had no doubt about that from the begining… That’s why I’m insisting on this conversation (allthough I feel ditto is about to kick my you know what, for continuing this BS… :stuck_out_tongue: :stuck_out_tongue: :P)

And I see you keep on talking to him… That means you also care about him…

And allthough it would be too much to ask to give up the fighting, still it would be a nice thing to see an honest approach attempt… From both sides… That would be very nice indeed… :smiley:

Spyros.

Pills can’t make you harm yourself or others…

Manic depression can…

If untreated such a person would eventually hurt himself, depending on the seriousness of the case…

How I see it, I prefer the pills…

Please give it a thought for one second… :expressionless:

just because one appears to be out of control and chaotic, does not make it so either… who is to say either way?

do you realise acasto is experinaceing the first true calms he has ever known? he says it himself, he’s the one witht he problem not you. so who are you to say?

i would like to know if you have ever had any personal experiance with a bi-polar victim?

i have, one is family member, the other is a friend.

once one of them is on something that works, it’s like the difference between night and day.

acasto is now taking meds that have changed his life for the better. my aunt-in-law (i use the term loosely) has bi-polar. it’s amazing how good she became after getting on meds. as if my uncle wasn’t already irresponsible enough it’s even harder for him to have her to take care of.

the effects of her rages come down hardest on her children, and my grandmother, who must take care of the children when this happens. she also must help them out finacially, even when she can hardly support herself, my grandfather got a terrible (and herreditary) mental diasase that is like alzheimer’s, except it’s faster, he got it in his late fortys. the majority of the time he was liek a vegetable. now she tries to support herself, take of two kids (one is autistic), and lend finacial support to my uncle, who can’t sustain a job for more than six monthes because of my aunt.

my aunt grew up in a strange home, and never recieved the help she needed. she never learned how to take care of children (if she really could), or even how to handle a house, hold a job, etc.

drugs would atleast keep her from raging every month or so.

another friends daughter is an alcholic, and can not raise her two children, which are now being raised by their grandmother.

acasto is one of the bravest people i know for taking this on, and admire his courage to be able to continue taking his meds.

don’t give me this BS that no meds are better. they aren’t.

think about a depressed person. are they better without meds? are they dumber with meds? can they think for themselves with meds?

same goes for those with bi-polar.

it’s sad to see people with stuff like this. :frowning:

I don’t know ditto, I just think he likes to judge people, but it would explain why he insult people at most time and sound educational at others. I heard caviar can cure bi polar disorder, I wonder if he’s going through this treatment right now.

He reminds me of a centrist that can’t decide which way to go :stuck_out_tongue:

And please don’t lecture me about my english ditto, you ain’t too well yourself you know.

no i killed 3 mice in my kitchen!!! with a mouse trap, and i was chasing it around for a while before hand. (damn it was shit scared)

and i DID mean innocent.

Alltaken

blengine ofcourse we don’t have the right to judge your life… If you bother to read again a couple of posts higher, you’ll notice that I acknowledge that… But you must also understand that while we do not have that right, we have the right to care for you (personally I don’t care for you :stuck_out_tongue: but others may ;)…).

And one who cares about you also have the right to try to help and support you the best way he thinks he can… Even if you don’t want him to…

Maybe acasto’s way is not the best… Maybe it is… But I sure as hell know that all the things that you say about him right now, do not reflect him or his intentions towards you…

When acasto is debating with Al_Capone, maybe it actually is his ego talking… But when he addresses to you, it’s his concerne…

I see that very clearly and for me there is no question about it… If you have observed my posts from time to time, you may have noticed that I don’t say something, unless I’m 1000% sure about it… I don’t need to switch places with acasto or anyone to be able to understand and know him… Maybe I actually am, a Magician and I know a couple of good spells… Who’s to say??? :wink:

Maybe he has chosen a wrong and harsh way to express his care towards you…

Or maybe he is right and this is the only way…

In any case I think he is one of the few real good friends that you have at least around here… You can count on my word for that… Please remain calm… Don’t shut the door behind you… Don’t keep acasto outside…

Keep talking man…

I care in the sense of I know what it’s like to be bipolar and to have talents, and to be able to look back and see how much of it was wasted on the illusion that I was well. Me telling him what I did (what he is so pissed about) got exactly the reaction I would expect from someone untreated. It was the exact same way I would react when someone said something about me before I was on meds.

The sad part is, is that there is no real way to reason with someone in this state. They feel as if the world is going to come down on them unless the fight back. Yet they can not gage the level of their defense.

Blengine has posted more and longer posts here then I have seen in a while. I think most here agree that the average person would not get so defensive and erratic like he has for the reasons he states. I do not blame him for his behavior because it is not his fault. But I do not back down from my thinking that he has a problem, and it is very evident.

I thought my therapist and parents were egotistical when they said I was not fine without meds. But all they were doing the whole time was merely pointing out the obvious.

I don’t know how this thing turned out this way either, anyway I’m not trying to tell you what to do with your life… I’m just defending the same possibility you are… You may be wrong but you also maybe right… acasto can be as well… The same goes for me and others…

The difference is that I’m always trying to be prepared for the “rare” :stuck_out_tongue: case that I might be wrong…

What would the best choice be, in such a case???

The best choice for me, is to understand who wants the best for me and not shut the door on his face…

It’s not the “sound” of their words that counts… It’s just the true meaning of those words and the honesty of their intentions…

and lets keep it that way[/quote]

I will… Anyway who am I to have the right to have feelings about all of you…

I’m just a stupid old fool from across the Atlantic… Just a pixel on your monitors… :expressionless: :expressionless: :expressionless:

The most funny thing in all this situation is, that we all did “our best” :stuck_out_tongue: to ruin this wonderful thread :P… But if you look at it from some certain point of view, I guess we were, in an ironic way, ON TOPIC all the time…

One of the things that brought human’s society into all that mess, is that we have lost our faith on others…

Man is a social “animal” and yet we have lost our ability to create and sustain proper “human”, relationships…

yes theres that choice, and also “dont care what other people say because they dont even know you” choice… the trick is to mix the two for the maximum benefit :slight_smile: [/quote]

Well, I had another “moto” some ages ago…

“Don’t care what other people say because you can’t trust anybody… God!!! They all look so suspicious!!!”

That was what did the biggest damage to me… That was my destruction… :-?

Allthough this is very far from what you say, even so, there’s always the danger of alienation…

Mix the two as you say, but keep the two ingredient’s quantity equal…

The trick is to have a balance, or else there’s always the danger that we will end up sending everybody away…

Even people who may not know us well, but are honest and put a sincere effort to reach and understand us are very important to us…

acasto is harsh, but he’s honest… He will tell you his opinion, no matter if he’s gonna sound good or bad… That was my initial point… It is up to you to listen to him or not… But what ever you do don’t missinterpret him… Don’t shut the door on people like acasto… We need honest people around us… (That’s just my opinion, I may be right I may be wrong… :P)

:frowning: :frowning: :frowning: :-? :-? :expressionless: %| :slight_smile: :slight_smile: :smiley: :smiley: :smiley:

I am uncertain if anyone has previously addressed this, since I am impatiant and I hate to read, but I feel morality is something that must be instilled in all of us. Unlike some other comments I read, where morals seem to be thought of as laws to control people, I feel morals are deeply linked with emotional responses – thus rendering morals more as a feeling for what is right. Since morals are a feeling for what should and should not be done – and also for what should and should not be thought – instead of an outward force controlling us, then, I feel, morals are something that could be described as an absolute truth for mankind. I am not talking about what certain countries, cultures, or religions might define as ‘morally right.’ I am talking about what might be true for human nature as a whole – defined by nature. I believe that there are absolute truths for how life should be lived – to maxamise health and happiness for everyone. These truthes are built up upon eachother like a piramid – with a broad base supporting all the higher defined levels of morality. I will describe the ideal way of life (in my opinion) for which everyone should personally instill in their own heart. It is highly unlikely, however, everyone would have as high of morals.

The base of the peramid would be the truth that the most prized possession anyone can have is one’s own life. Life is sacred and should in no way be taken away from anyone. Before you argue about the over-crowding of prisons, please note this is an ideal view, and ideals are rarely supported by reality. Since life is deeply respected and viewed as precious, the taking of life in any form would be wrong. Therefore such concepts as abortion would be wrong, because the life being taken is the life of the unborn child, and that unborn child should have the chance to live it’s own life.

Since life is the most prized of all possessions, one would like to have his/her life to be the best it could be, therefore no one should impose upon someone else’s life. Nobody should force anyone into bad situations, especially for one’s own gain. Nobody should steal, cheat, lie, manipulate, or physically harm anyone. These detract from people’s happiness and wellbeing.

In the real world (not this ideal one) many people lie and manipulate for personal sexual pleasures. How many people are lead to believe they are being loved, when they are really only being used? How many people might even lie to themselves, thinking that they are in love, when they really only love the sex and not the woman?

In the ideal world an interest in otheother’s personality, preferences, and opinions would take precedence over matters of looks or sex, since one should be highly self-concious about useing someone for personal gain. The point of relationships would be to build actual relationships, since lying and manipulation was already established as wrong. Relationships are built on honesty and truthfulness, and one should take a genuine interest in the other’s life. Marrage, being a powerful promis to be by eachother’s side forever, should be taken seriously. “For richer. For porer. Through sickness and in health” the marage partner should be concidered before one’s self. “The two become one flesh,” and should work together as one. Difforences in oppinions may arise, but there should always be respect for these difforences. I know plenty of amazing marrages that have lasted forever, and the key is to always calmly listen to what the other has to say. In the ideal world divorce would not be an option, because people should try to work out problems.

Because life is sacred, one will try to do what is good for others before doing what one wants to do. Respect for one’s own parents should be anough to not experiment with drugs or drinking. The thought of a mother’s worry should be anough to choose not to smoke, snort, inhale, or inject anything. Also, because life is sacred, one will try to live one’s own life the best it could naturally be – unaided by any substance. Really, if you had known how some drugs work you would never want to try them. On the dendrites of each brain-cell there are synaptic-receptors, which dectect specific neurotransmitters (chemicals used for communication between brain-cells). Some neurotransmitters have an excititory affect (causing firing) on neurons, while others have an inhibitory (preventing firing) affect. Some drugs, such as cocain and niccotine, contain chemicals that resemble neurotransmitters. Because they resemble neurotransmitters they cause an over-active firing of the brain-cells that detect that type of neurotransmitter. The neural activity is the ‘high’ many experience. The brain tries to rebalance its self, and fire in a more normal pattern, by adjusting to have fewer synaptic-receptors on the dendrites. Because of having fewer synaptic-receptors more of a substance is needed in order for it to have the same affect on the brain – more of a drug needs to be used to attain the same high. Also, because of fewer synaptic-receptors, when the drug is not present they neuron cannot fire as regularly. The neuron may become over or under active during normal every day life. This abnormal firing pattern causes symptoms of withdrawl – where one needs the drug because they suffer without it. The withdrawl is pretty much to opposite of what the drug does, so if it causes one to ‘feel good’ then it would feel pretty bad without it. I read about this one drug (I cannot remember the name at the moment) where the withdrawl sympoms felt like you were being ripped in half and set on fire. That sounds a little unpleasent to me. Drugs also affects mental functions both when using the drug and when not. It hardly seems to be a life worth living, if you ask me.

There are more, commen sense stuff (forgive and forget, etc.), but I don’t feel like typing anymore. What I am really saying is that morals are a matter of personal ideals. The only way to improve the quality of the world is by altering one’s own self towards understanding truths about human nature, and understanding what is best for everybody. The point of morals is not to restrict anyone, but to make sure one’s self does not negetively affect anyone else. Because of that, real morals are independant of any social structure.

Good for you… You have no idea, but you just saved yourself from an unnecessary trouble… Trust me on that… :stuck_out_tongue: :stuck_out_tongue: :stuck_out_tongue: :stuck_out_tongue:

The point of morals, is to enable you to distinguish what’s right from wrong… Or at least to try to form a “personal impression” of what is right and what is not right… Once this is achieved, you’ll have some balance between your thoughts and your actions… Up to some degree, I agree that real morals are independant from any social structure, cause in my opinion each person has each own personal idea of what is wrong and right… But in general, our perception of right/wrong sometimes is pretty much influenced by the “society”…

Anyway, this is something that should be resolved between you two… I think I interfered more than I was entitled to…

The only thing I wish, is the best for both… Take care of yourself and keep “talking” to us… Oooohhh and Blending ofcourse… :stuck_out_tongue:

and it looks like waffler just got this party back…

Naaahhh he just didn’t bother to read all the previous posts… If he had, he would change his mind instantly and give up on the idea to reply… :stuck_out_tongue: :stuck_out_tongue: :stuck_out_tongue: