Recommendations for Seeking Volunteers

"Guys, I have an awesome animation project. I’m confident that if we work as a TEAM, then we can ALL be part of a revolutionary animation and I have NO DOUBT that it will be very profitable. I just need a little help from YOU. Here are some things I need:

Modelers (organic and hard surfaces), Animators, Textures, Riggers, Programmers, Concept Artists, Story Boarders, Compositors, Lighting Experts, Project Managers, Script Writers, a Plot, a Plan, an Idea, and a little Talent.

I am only looking for the most talented individuals, so if you have not won an award or at least have been working (PROFESSIONALLY) in the field for a minimum of 5 years, DO NOT waste my time by applying. My time is very valuable.

I have 100% faith in this, but can not pay you until we make a profit. However, once I (I mean we) make a profit, I will only take 60% (for doing the hard work of putting this together and typing this post) then we can divide the remaining 40% evenly amongst US.

Let me know if you’re interested."

:evilgrin:

Hello all,

Maybe, because I lack the talent most of you have, I do not get AS frustrated when others send out a request for help, but seem to half do it.

I’m a dreamer and enjoy seeing all the different ideas and projects, but I do understand the high blood pressure that comes from listening to my fellow noobs request assistance with nothing to show.

I wonder if the moderators (of Blender Artist) would consider adding a sticky with the guidelines for putting up volunteer posts? These would not have to be enforceable, hard set rules. Basically, they would be strong recommendations for serious project leads seeking help.

With that in mind, maybe we can come up with suggestions for what we want to see.

That sounds like a good idea. I see a lot of posts where people want help, but their shopping list is more or less everything, and they don’t say what they will be doing, and they don’t want to showcase the work they have so far, either because they don’t have any or because they don’t want it stolen.

I think some guidelines would be beneficial. On the course I’m on we had a lot of time spent being told about how to pitch your work to others. One of the main things as about having something to show. A lot of the threads don’t have anything there to get people interested, just an idea, and a request for a leap of faith. Guidelines are a good idea.

I think having something to show for your idea would be a good one. It’s no good asking for help and not showing anything. And I don’t like it when people say they’ll show you some work but only if you email them. The starting post should contain some work, even if it’s just a bit of concept art. Asking for help but being unwilling to show any work is not productive.

Sounds Good:

GS (Guideline Suggestion) 1: Give us USEFUL details about the project

While volunteers understand and appreciate you wanting to protect your idea from being stolen before you even get it produced, you must understand that as a volunteer, we want to know what we are getting into. Is it going to take a long time? Is it beyond my talent? Is this something I will enjoy doing?

Here are some simple things you can share without giving too much of your project away.

Genre (Drama, Comedy, Action, Sci-fi, etc…)
Style (Realistic, cartoon, anime, first person, dark, moody, etc…)
Length (1 min, 1 hour, feature length, etc…)
Anticipated Assets needed (1 character, 5 sets, etc…)
Your skills and contribution (NOTE: Whenever possible demonstrate skills with actual work. This goes a long way.)
Where can we find more into (Facebook page, website, blog, etc…)

GS2: SHOW and tell us why we should work (trust) with you.

While you know you’re an awesome person (or group of people) and you know you have what it takes to make this successful, right now all we have is your word. “A picture is worth a thousand words.” We want to see that you are committed and talented. Yes, in some cases all you have is your word, but if you have examples, it is always better. Remember, be ethical and only use your work AND give credit where it’s due.

Things we need to know about you:

 What are your qualifications?
 How long have you been working on this?
 How much time will you commit to this?
 Why do you need help?

Things you can share to demonstrate your talent:

 Demo reel
 Concept Art
 Any physical example of your work
 A little bit of the script (that does not give away the story)
 Links to other projects you have worked on

I know these Guidelines need to be refined, but these are some quick ideas. I hope this is what you were looking for Mammal Pod.

That’s good. Definitely this. Having information like this would clear up a lot of threads that start out vague. Having to scroll down and read the one who posted the request clarifying what they need is a pain. If people did something like this at the start it would clear it up nicely.

That’s also good. Showing that you know what you’re doing is a good idea. A lot of threads have someone asking for help but they don’t give a solid estimate of the time needed, or what they can do themselves. It makes it sound like the volunteers would end up doing a majority of the work. Pitching your idea with a solid description like the type above and having some work to show for at the very least your own abilities goes a long way indeed.

Everything that’s been said above is great, but mostly only applies to larger projects. If someone comes along wanting a single low poly model there’s no need for a huge pitch. For small volunteer jobs it would probably do to just have an explanation of how it will be used, along with the obvious instructions for making whatever is needed.

I’m just mentioning this for the sake of clarity.

That is true, IF the “you” in question is an amateur. Professionals in creative business understand that nothing gets produced without other people buying in, and constantly pitch their ideas, treatments, scripts to anyone who is willing to listen.

Being overly protective of an idea with no actual work behind it really means the person so concerned only has the one idea.

In truth, ideas are like thumbnails, easy to produce, and mostly worthless. Make a hundred of them, and maybe you’ll find one or two worth developing further. But it’s the development that adds value, not the original thumbnail.

No actor would sign up to work on a film without reading the screenplay. And if you make a model, put clothing on it, rig it and move it around, doing things and speaking dialog, why, you are an actor.

Absolutely. And people who ask for assets, provide concept art or sketches, have a clear explanation of what it is for, generally find someone to help them out. This is mainly aimed at people coming here to recruit a team to work on a larger project.

Excellent point KnightsFan, thanks for the clarification.

Your point is well taken Orinoco, but every once in a while, I believe that there is a unique idea (story or concept) out there and while I may not have one I understand the fear that if you (without the resources) may be afraid that someone (with the resources) may hear your idea and create it before you can.

Case in point, there have actually been individuals and studios sued for taking some ones idea (story) as their own.

Also, while most of you out there may be professionals, many of us are amateurs, looking to turn our one idea into something special.

That’s right. Recently there have been several threads where people have been wanting teams but without anything to show. There was that anime, the Pokemon fan series, that kind of thing. They don’t have anything to show for it except an idea. They don’t even share their idea so it can be developed through discussion. It’s not very productive, in the end.

I like to think of ideas like a ball. You get one, and it’s shiny and seems good but there’s no detail. So, you pass it round to others who play with it and in time you have your ball back, but marked and scratched up. Lots more to look at than a shiny ball you can buy anywhere. If you don’t talk about it, and let others review your idea, and just work on it yourself you can only get so far. You’ll only ever end up with a shiny ball.

Certainly there have been. A hallmark of modern legal systems is that anyone can sue anyone else for just about anything, if they can find a lawyer to represent them. The question is: did they win?

Unlikely, because you cannot copyright an idea, only the expression of an idea. Might someone take your idea and run with it? Sure, they might. And if they run farther and faster than you can with that idea, they will reap the rewards. But they aren’t rewarded for the idea, they are rewarded for the farther and faster bit.

You say it well in your sig: hard work brings the profit, not the mere talk.

What would I make gifs of, then? D:

Orinoco, I am in agreement with you (complete agreement) that the work must be put in in order to reap the success.

However, you reply almost seems to imply that the idea is worth little to nothing, which I strongly disagree with. I would almost say that every successful venture starts with an idea. There are such things as good and bad ideas. While there may be zillions of ideas I would have to say that they are not equal.

And to your question, yes there have been successful law suits.

What about adding something to the recommendations about how much of your idea to talk about? There’s probably a balance somewhere between Tells You Enough to Generate Interest and Blueprint for Wandering Plagiarists.

There are zillions of ideas. And, like the Red Queen who believed at least six impossible things before breakfast, there are methods and exercises that are useful in producing ideas. While every successful venture started with an idea, so did every unsuccessful one, and, if you look at the statistics, unsuccessful ventures outnumber successful ventures by something like 20 to 1.

Ideas are indeed the seeds. But the sad fact is that not all seeds sprout. Of those that do sprout, many of the seedlings don’t survive. Of those that survive, only a few thrive, and only some of those produce fruit.

I sympathize with people holding a single seed and dreaming of the fruit. But as a gardener wanting to eat well, I know I must not only plant many seeds, but I must do the work of watering, weeding, pruning, thinning and so on that a gardener must do to get a decent harvest, as well as gather many more seeds to plant the next season.

Vanity of vanities, saith the Preacher, vanity of vanities; all is vanity…The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun. Is there any thing whereof it may be said, See, this is new? it hath been already of old time, which was before us.

Okay Orinoco, let’s agree to disagree.

You SEEM to believe that only the work is important and that the idea is nearly worthless. So creators should stop being scared that someone will steal their idea and just share with reckless abandon, since their idea is not unique.

I believe that the work is critical and that the idea is useless unless the work is done to create it. However, there ARE unique (if extremely rare) ideas, thus we should be respectful of individuals who think (wrongly or rightly) that they have that rare unique idea.

Thus, in the interest on not distracting (any more) from the real purpose of this post. I have put together a proposed sticky. I would love everyone’s input.

Welcome to the Volunteer Section of Blender Artist. We hope you are able to find the resource(s) you need here. To help facilitate that we have put together some guidelines to help you attract the people you need. These are only helpful suggestions. You are welcome to ignore some or all, if you want. However, we believe that if you follow these you will cut down on unnecessary questions, reduce critical remarks, attract the appropriate people, and speed up the recruitment process.

There are multiple requests every week. We believe that the artist would like as many details as possible so that they are not replying to every post. Instead they can reply to only the posts they are interested in and believe they can contribute to.

We respect your personal concerns and understand your commitment to protect your intellectual property, but we ask that you share as much as you can without exposing yourself more than you’re comfortable with.

These guidelines are specifically for project team recruitment however, you can use them for single asset work as well.

Guideline 1: Give us USEFUL information – Tell us about your project

While volunteers (at least some) understand and appreciate you wanting to protect your idea from being stolen before you can complete it, you must understand that as a volunteer, we want to know what we are getting into. How much of our time is needed? Do we have the skill to help? Is this something I would enjoy doing?

Here are some simple things you can share to tell us about your project:

  • Type: Animation, Game, Still
  • Genre: Drama, Comedy, Action, Sci-Fi
  • Length: 20 seconds, 1 minute, 1 hour, full length feature, ongoing series
  • Assets needed: 1 character, 5 sets, special effects, 20 minutes of animation, voice overs
  • What will you do: (Note: Whenever possible demonstrate your skill with actual work. This goes a long way)

Guideline 2: Help us BELIEVE in you – Tell us about you

Volunteers want to know that their time will not be wasted and that you will see this project to the end. They are typically skeptical that you will start this, get distracted or board, then quit. We want to know that you will stick around for the long haul and we want you to make us believe it (even if it’s just a little bit.)

Here’s what we’d love to know about you:

  • What are your qualifications?
  • How long have you been working on this?
  • How much time will you personally commit to this?
  • How do we know you wont quit?

Guideline 3: Show us you have SKILLS and COMMITMENT – Demonstrate whatever you can

We know some of you are just starting off so you do not have a lot to show, but when you bill yourself as an awesome artist we want proof. Even those of you that are just starting off should have something to show that this is not just a fad for you. If you want to make an animation or a game, you should have more than a brain fart before asking for help. Put together some concept art or show a bit of your story.

  • Things that can help demonstrate your talent and commitment:
  • Demo reel
  • Concept art
  • Script excerpt (something that does not give your story away)
  • Anything you have done that demonstrates your ability

Guideline 4: Let us know how much you VALUE us – Let us know what’s in it for us

Some volunteers are fine with just getting the experience, but others want recognition or even pay, if there is a chance for it down the line. If you are only doing this for FUN, then say so up front, otherwise, let us know what’s in it for us.

Some good incentives are:

  • Recognition
  • Profit Share
  • Experience with skilled professional (You should prove that you or someone on your team is a skilled professional)
  • Credit in Project
  • Ability to Use project in our demo reel

This list may not include everything, but is should be a pretty good start. I think if you use these guidelines you will be much better off than if you didn’t. Either way good luck on your project and happy blending.

:smiley: OK. I am a very agreeable disagreeable person :smiley:

Couple of copy editing notes:

get distracted or board
get distracted or bored

How much of our time is needed? Do we have the skill to help? Is this something I would enjoy doing?
last sentence switches to singular. Recommend: Is this something we would enjoy doing?

Non-copy editing cavil

We respect your personal concerns and understand your commitment to protect your intellectual property, but we ask that you share as much as you can without exposing yourself more than you’re comfortable with.

I do think you are bending over way too far in giving people permission to not reveal the story. I use the analogy about trying to hire actors without letting them read the script. I sincerely think that is relevant.

We don’t want to spend our time working with a flake, (Guidelines 2 and 3) but more than that, we don’t want to spend our time working on a project that isn’t any good. We want to work on a project where we see a great end result and know we can contribute something to that end result. Without a script, storyboards, the story, we got nothing.

Also, having the script is insurance against the original poster dropping out. If the team buys into the project, remaining team members could, theoretically, pick up the ball and run with it. It is also insurance that the idea, when put on paper, is actually workable.

Now, if all the project needs is a few assets modeled and textured, or a walk cycle or some background character animation, then someone might be willing to do that without knowing the whole story, and that’s fine. It’s like putting something up on BlendSwap. But when the call is for models, and rigs, and animation… Well, then you are trying to hire an actor.

I’m seeing Orinoco’s point here about actors and scripts. People are reluctant to give out enough script to give a persona good idea what they’d be signing up for, but script excerpts without anything significant occurring it doesn’t show the full potential of the idea. Blurbs in books, for example, take the important points of the plot and talk about them in a way that draws you in. Sometimes in the front they have a little quote from somewhere important. If they just used some of the filler script between important areas, they wouldn’t sound good to read, would they?

Thanks for the corrections and feedback guys.

In regards to actors and scripts, I’m not sure where you get that from. As some one who acted in the past and know actors, I am aware of many actors that sign up (audition or read for a script) without having the WHOLE script. I also know actors who have taken parts without reading any script. The idea that actors have to have the script before joining a project is typically reserved for A-list actors.

I’m not sure why it’s hard to understand that someone would reserve sharing their entire script until after they come to an agreement with some one.

Yes they can share the fact that they have a completed script, but no need to let everybody read it just to see if they want to join the project.

I respect that you might not want to join some ones project until you read the entire script, but I don’t think that is the case for most volunteers.

I think it’s okay to say, “This is what my project is about, this is what I’ve done, here’s an example of my work, and this is what I need help with. Complete details will be shared with all those that work on the project.”

In most if not all cases, you are not signing a contract that is forcing you to work on something if you decide early on that this is not something you want to be a part of.

I see where posters seem to be asking a lot from volunteers with nothing to show, but asking for full disclosure (entire script) seems to be over compensating.