Renamon (mesh version 2.1.0)

Artwork Focused Critiques
1

Well, I call this version 2, cause I made one version before this, and that version sucked. The topology was bland (her body was basically a modified cylinder, topology-wise), there was no detail, no room for muscle deformations, no nothing. I wasn’t aware of this at the time, until someone said my model looked good. Then I thought ‘what would I think if if I was someone else looking at this’, or–more accurately–me looking at someone else’s.

I kinda liked it, but there were some problems, and a few bits were kind of blobby and low detail. Then I decided to look at it as if it was someone else’s and I was having a really bad day, and I discovered, to my great surprise, that the model was terrible. The face loops in particular. So I trashed it. I dunno if it’s a strength or weakness that I don’t get attached to old models. :stuck_out_tongue:

So, this is version 2.0.1 Alpha Stage so far. A couple topology areas are being shifted and re-designed and things are still being hacked out, prototype-wise.

In particular I’m trying to erase that nasty crunch of edge loops in the small of her back, right above her tail base. Any help experienced modelers could donate would be welcome. I say experienced cause I’m going wild with topology. I’m trying to get a lot of stuff so there aren’t too many isolated straight lines, that and I’m trying to rough out the shapes for the under-lying muscles, on account of shape keys for flexing later. A couple bits in the thighs are still off. I’m working on those, but any advice would be welcome, once again.

http://zombiedog.spindash.net/Re_Arc/remar2.0.2-fb-subsurf.png

Here are wireframes for anyone who’s interested.
Poly mesh so far. Another full shot, the ears look huge because they’re four-sided and the subsurface hasn’t knocked them down yet.
Poly Mesh–Thigh. A shot the inside to make things a little clearer.
Poly Mesh–Torso. Front and back, notice the nasty edge loop crunch there. I have ideas on how to kill it, but they probably suck. I’m no professional.

Quick note: Her fur, mane and tail will come later.

Anyway, I’m not professional, so… Good modelers, any time you could donate towards assisting me would be appreciated.

2

The ‘scrunch’ of edgeloops right above the tail are going to be difficult to get rid of. You could try using the Retopo brush- other than that, I have no idea how you could remove it because the front topology relies on it.

3

I dunno if it’s a strength or weakness that I don’t get attached to old models.

It’s a little of both IMHO. Just so long as you keep your original model somewhere for safekeeping, it’s great to go back and try new things to make it better, or just go back to the old drawing board.

4

http://xs411.xs.to/xs411/07020/remar2.0.2-ts-meshcage_tw.png

While you should try to build a face loop around the base of he tail, the rest of this might make it harder to get a smooth surface.

Generally, you can use close-to-tri shaped faces to go from 3 to 2 edges or trapezoids for 2 to 4. One might get a away with tris in areas of low tension or hidden places.

5

It’s a relief to see that someone here can offer assistance. Anyway. I do see what you’re saying, but I’m not sure what I should be doing here. Because that doesn’t explain how I’d be getting the loops from the torso. Would I just subdivide?

By the way, I dunno if you can see it, but there is a half-loop around her tail. It’s the second face loop from the middle that goes down her spine, it loops around and under. I wasn’t sure about closing it off cause I read somewhere that using isolated loops like that made the mesh look like bits of it were extruded.

http://zombiedog.spindash.net/Re_Arc/durrr.png

Purple lines are the loop under the base of the tail. The red lines are just the continuation of the tail.

The blue lines are me going ‘durrrrrr…’ because I don’t know what I’m supposed to do with these lines that come back from the torso if I follow your advice. But then again, that’s why I need help. <:P

6

Well, for the blue, you would either delete loops or mirror the trapezoid face. That is for the upper part, for the lower you could only delete the loop around the waist or would have to add loops on the tail, AFAICS.

Purple: the question is wether this or a loop closed around the tail are more appropiate to the shape you want. If the back of the tail is meant to smooth out up the back, purple is right. If the tail is to be more separated or smoothing out in a more circular fashion, a loop around the base would be better.

I think isolated loops, patches kinda, are the right thing for muscles and things like a ripcage. I don’t think the smoothed, subdivided surface looks ‘extruded’ if you don’t move parts of the patch too far out.

1 Like
7

Hmm, well. I’ve tried both and I think they work fairly well either way. But this guy is apparently a professional, so hey. By the way, I mirrored the trapezoid and that cut out a crapload. That and I managed to replace some of the wrap-around edge-lopps with more closed ones that just worked around the abs themselves. So, there’s a lot less possibility for wrinkling later on now. (here)

Anyway, anyone see any anatomical or structural problems in her arms? I mean, besides the obvious resulting from her original character design.

Subsurfaced arm. (ignore the hand mockup)
Arm Mesh-Cage

8

If there is a problem, it’s the closed loop on the forearm. I can see it in the subsurfed version, where it doesn’t match my anatomical expectations. But I don’t know how this thing should look, so …

9

…Could you expand? What are your expectations supposed to be? :stuck_out_tongue: Cause that honestly doesn’t help me right now.

10

ummm didnt wolf make this??
wait im digging up the link…

11
  1. No wolf didn’t make it, this is Renamon, Wolf made Mewtwo, and
  2. Wolf didn’t make up mewtwo. :stuck_out_tongue:
  3. Here’s the link you were looking for.
12

http://xs411.xs.to/xs411/07033/remar2.0.3-rm-subsurf_edit.jpg

Blue lines indicate the problems caused by the closed loop. Red is roughed in to show what I would expect. Just look at the last bit of your arm, palm-side. The surface should at least flatten there (the real thing is of course pretty complex, if you look closely). Then put one hand around your stretched out arm right over the elbow joint. Try to feel muscle and bones. The line I drew is not exact, it just points in the direction of surface flow I saw on references.

From these images, I’m not sure whether you took the rotation of the joint into account. Stretching out your arm and moving the forearm while keeping the upper arm as stiff as possible will show you what i mean. You might have to move the surfaces correspending to the loose skin on the elbow a bit lower and rotate them accordingly.

13

Hmm… Wire ?
Can`t see the thing

14

oh ok…u gotta admit they look similar tho…

15

Wow thats a Great Model you got there! wow

16

OneMan: The link to the wires are underneath the main picture on the first post and in this post. I just didn’t want to swamp people with pictures.

Thorwil: Actually, that blue line there was meant to be a muscle because of the odd way her arm tapers outwards instead of inwards, I though reversing one of them might even it out a little. The problems you’re pointing out are mostly resultant of a haphazard attempt at faking the muscle structure for that. Still having trouble evening out things, though, so yeah, I’ll probably scrap it from the elbow.

Speaking of the elbow, you’re right, when the arm is extended the local z rotation of the lower arm is back about 35 degrees from the upper arm, and the arm of the 3d model is in fact rotated backwards in accordance, but the stupid elbow always creeps back up to the straight back when I tweak things. XD You’re right, though, I’ll fix it as well.

Anyway, before I remake the arm I’ll have to figure out how the muscles will sit, cause the designers really went wild with the taper there.

Lasphere: Thanks. :stuck_out_tongue: It’s not that great, though. By the way, I like your animation-mentor dudes.

17

Wireframe of the hands part

Sorry for miss understood
I can`t see what the lines (red blue show)

18

http://blenderartists.org/forum/showpost.php?p=791795&postcount=7

Arm Mesh-Cage link

19

Maybe this is the problem ?
Thx for the wyre

oh i forget to draw somethin
a loop mrrr

corected

20

You know what, I’ve realized I have no idea what I’m doing when it comes to the arms. Consequently I’ve scrapped it. For a better part of evening I’ve been studying anatomy of the arm, and now I think I’ve come up with a plan. It might be a little disproportionately short compared to the rest of the model, but a bit of photoshopping will stretch it into shape. :stuck_out_tongue:

Re-writing is fun. Anyway, I’ll plot my edge-loops better too, I think. Stupid things, I really had no idea what I was trying to do.

By the way, colour key.

Yellow: Cushion pads.
Dark Red: Deep muscles, bedded in along the arms
Light Red: Shallow muscles, mostly hand related.
Blue: Tendons.
Bones are obvious.

The finger that looks really short is actually crooked over. /:stuck_out_tongue:

EDIT: I forgot to mention I added two extra muscles–inverted–to the deep set to accommodate the odd tapering from the original design.