Hi the mesh is still a work in progress ie no where near done yet which is I why I only uploaded the armature, I will work on those pivot points in the control shapes and upload the adjusted version so nobody gets sea sick when rotating the control bones.
Excellent Sudai, I look forward to seeing your rig complete :yes:
I have managed to create a rudimentary ribbon spine behaviour in Blender! I have attached the demo file below!
This is my first attempt at it, so some aspects of it need to be improved, but for the most part it works great! You can rotate, translate, or scale the controls and the rig responds!
However, I didn’t add a pelvis control, so the pelvis of the mesh will always be pointed towards the chest. And the chest control is pretty hack, I just threw it on there in 5 minutes lol :rolleyes:. No matter, the chest control is just meant to show how the rig can be implemented… this is just a proof of concept, focusing on the spine.
Very easy to use, and very durable! But not so easy to setup… haha. No worries, I can post a tutorial once I get the kinks worked out. I just wanted to post the .blend now so you guys can offer suggestions and play around with it 
Edit: The setup works better if the X axis of the top control rotation constraint is activated. So it more closely follows the chest. I had it off initially because it prevented flipping at some angles, but it works better overall if it is re-activated.
Attachments
ribbonSpine_version1.blend (106 KB)
jpbouza,
I think I better understand now what you meant by a ‘refresh problem’ regarding dual armature setups. Although this is regarding single armature setups, is that correct?
I’ve been tinkering with switches, and analyzing more rigs. I was looking at the Jim Rig, and trying to figure out how the IK/FK switches are updating in realtime. On my rigs I didn’t previously realize that it was a refresh problem, I thought it just didn’t work! I would have the driver setup right, but nothing would happen! However I now understand that it works when the frame changes!
So I was digging through the wiki, and found this page, which says under the “Live Updates” section:
You can also insert Drivers on Action Ipos, but for now they are only evaluated on frame change.
Now I have no idea how you drive an Action, but fortunately my googling led me to this explanation which adds at the end:
One more thing is to unlink the IPO by clicking on the little waving man from
dark to light. Next you need to select the IPO name you created to activate
the file, or it won’t work.
Which was a revelation for me, and so I thought I would share here. :yes:
Edit: I just thought I would add a demo file to show this simply as well. Cheers!
Edit2: I just found a post about this by Vertex Pusher, and he supplied a prettier file. See the post in this thread.
Hi feelgoodcomics
Just checked out that hand rig animation very cool I hope my animations turn out half as good as that, I will have a closer look at the rig as well when I finish some more work,
Dont know if you have found this out on my rig yet but if youre in pose mode select both COG control bone and COG bone, switch to bone edit mode and place them where ever you want the COG to be and switch back to pose mode and rotate COG.
Both bones must be moved together at the same time.
Sudai
Hey that’s pretty neat Sudai 
Reminds me of the setup Pepeland did in his leg rig with the foot pivot.
SUCCESS! THIS IS HUUUUUUGE!!! :ba:
I have spent the last 2 days trying to devise a way to create the same lip control technique used in this Maya Tutorial DVD, but in Blender. And I’ve done it!
The difficulty is that the lip controls are following the mesh when you deform the jaw, AND they are deforming the mesh as well! It sounds like a dependency cycle, but it isn’t! (I’ve checked the console). I had to find a way to do this in Blender, because it is quite different from the way Maya does it.
How it works - The lip mesh is duplicated and separated to its own object. The base armature deforms both the head mesh (excluding the lips), and the separate lip mesh. The lip armature bones’ locations are constrained to the corresponding vertex groups in the lip mesh. The lip bone influences are added using a second armature modifier, and their weights are painted into the head mesh! (Make sure ‘Envelopes’ are disabled in the modifier)
I’ve attached a file to demonstrate this using Suzanne. Go ahead and twist it, pull it, or stretch it! It can do it all! AND the best part is that it is VERY EASY and QUICK to setup! (relatively speaking of course). Plus this could be used for an entire character - not just the lips! You could literally add a bone anywhere on your character and be able to use it to deform!
Note: I didn’t take the time to properly balance the head weights, so the head can easily look wrong, but that’s just because of the weighting.**
jpbouza - your post in this thread was a tremendous help, so thanks! :yes:
I plan to rig a stretchy full Suzanne rig to practice these new techniques (both this and the ribbon spine). And now without further ado, I present… the lip control file:
Attachments
FGC_SuzanneStretchyLipSetup.blend (172 KB)
Hi here is the rig with improved pivots ie no throw up bucket needed.
Sudai
Attachments
Sudai_Rig_11_06_09.blend (277 KB)
Hi guys, you have some nice setups. Sudai, that rig is going well, is it possible to control the arms in IK but without the hinge?
Feelgoodcomics, you have developed an interesting concept with the stretchy lips rig!
I´ve uploaded a video overview of BlenRig 3, you might want to check it out.
Or, use multiple armatures, and instead constrain the bones, not IPO drive them. I get no refresh problems that way, ever. In fact, inter-armature relationships sometimes trip up the depsgraph, and cause more lags.
That’s a pretty cool ribbon setup feelgood! It’d be good for spines.
Sudai:
Looking great! I especially like the new controls 
lol bright and colorful! And the glute controls are great too! (Is he going to do a little buns dance?)
I like the new shoulder pivots too! Your head control pivot is still in the middle of the head bone though 
. I’ve also noticed that if I free rotate the neck controls, the head goes crazy because of the track to constraint… it may end up giving you more problems than benefits to setup your head that way, so be wary.
I’m not clear on how your FK controls work on your arms… when I rotate the bicep the rest of the arm doesn’t follow. Are your arms just incomplete, or am I missing something?
You might also want to put an IK handle on your toes, to prevent them from going through the floor when the heel is pivoted (you might want to check out this leg rig tutorial I put together).
I understand it’s still a work in progress, and it’s looking great! :yes:
I will also suggest a more animator-friendly method of handling the spine and neck… I will post an example in a bit.
jpbouza:
WOW! That’s some complex rigging right there! I like how you’ve used the meshdeform modifier to maintain volume… that’s a great idea. I haven’t learned the meshdeform modifier yet, but when I do I will refer to your blenrig for sure!
mikahl:
Yeah, jpbouza was saying earlier that he was having refresh problems using 2 armatures… and I was having refresh problems using one lol (although I found the fix). The only catch with using one armature is you can’t drive bones with bones, but for the most part you could use constraints instead.
I tried linking the suzanne lip rig into a file to see how it would perform. There is a refresh problem if you cancel the rotation of the head bones… not a big deal (especially not compared to the control the rig offers!), but it’s something to be aware of for sure. The problem seems to stem from having to create a separate proxy for each armature… the proxies don’t communicate properly, and it can be a little laggy as well. But all you have to do is change the time, or cancel movement for one of the lip bones and it all goes back to the right place :). I animated and rendered the linked version and it works fine
Plus if you don’t need to link it and you append it, there are no refresh problems (atleast none that I’m aware of)
Hi guys
well I’m finaly doing a post after getting some sleep that got to be a first lol :yes:
jpbouza
FeelGoodComics
Thanks for the feed, back the rig I’m working on is my first successfull biped set up so am pleased with how it’s going, I have played around with rigging in other apps but never had much success, still lots to understand and learn but that will come with time.
jpbouza
is it possible to control the arms in IK but without the hinge?
I don’t fully understand the question can you do a screen grab or explain further
ie: hinge in the arm ik.
I will go to a internet cafe and dowload the latest blen Rig, Im on dail up at home and havent figured out how to fit a phone book through the eye of a needle lol
looking forward to having a look at your hard work
feelgoodcomics
The glute bones are for the flying butt slam of death lol… nah realy they are there to help with the weight mapping just like all the other double bones in the hips an shoulders and biceps.
Your head control pivot is still in the middle of the head bone though
Dang! I and I thought I uploaded the most recent file i will triple check next time
sorry guys 
I’m not clear on how your FK controls work on your arms
the bones for the bicep and thighs in FK mode are in bone layer three I still haven’t got any FK control bones yet I was finding a dependency cyle error when trying to get the Ctrl bone to follow the bone in the IK chain still trying to figure it out Vertex Pusher uploaded a file for me to study.
You might also want to put an IK handle on your toes
I will have a look at the Tutorial thanks
Thanks again for the feed back keep it coming it helps me learn
Sudai
Hey Sudai,
I’m glad you’re learning new things here! That’s great! I’ve learned a ton from these threads as well, and I can’t wait to learn more!
Here is a suggestion for your torso setup. There are other ways, but for a fighting character this could work really well… It’s simple to use, and fairly durable :eyebrowlift:. One control for the pelvis, and one control for the chest - with an optional control to pivot the chest at the shoulders. The neck is also now one control, and the head is a hinge. The setup largely depends on the use of segmented B-Bones as I’ve mentioned before, to get smooth deformations with fewer bones.
Edit: There is a parent line going off to the right because that’s where the spine center is. Forgot to re-center it 
I hope it gives you some ideas… 
Cheers!
P.S. Does anyone know how you cancel out the rotations of the hinge joint via the body control? So when you rotate the body control, the hinge doesn’t hinge? If that makes sense… lol :eyebrowlift:
Edit: figured it out, it’s done using a parent constraint. I also wrote this in the next post…
Attachments
FGC_spine.blend (133 KB)
jpbouza
Hi guys, you have some nice setups. Sudai, that rig is going well, is it possible to control the arms in IK but without the hinge
Well the coffee finaly kicked in and my brain cells woke up, if you were regarding the hinge as in the standard arm rotation setup ie the elbow joint the answer is I dont know
that would be better directed to more knowledgeable members of the forum, do you know the awnswer FeelGoodComics ?
Sudai
I’m actually not clear about the question either. None of the joints in the arm have ‘hinge’ activated…
Besides… lol… jpbouza has more Blender rigging experience than me! I’m just an ideas man… I like tinkering The more I look at this blenrig the more impressed I get!
It’s back to you jp… maybe you can also answer my question about hinges and full body controls as well? ie. How can you override hinges when rotating the entire body to a new orientation with a full body control?
Edit: Nevermind, figured out my question lol. You just add a parent constraint on the hinged bone to the full body controller. Sudai’s question still remains though
Hi everyone well heres her’es a version with a Basic mesh & weight maps so you can take it for a proper drive bound to be less confusing as well .
Sudai
Attachments
SUDAI_RIG_DEMO.blend (392 KB)
Sudai Nice!
By Hinge I meant that it good be great to have the possibility that hand followed the orientation of the arm when in IK, and that when the body moved, the IK controllers also followed the movement of the Torso.
In BlenRig I have used several methods for doing this. First, I used Child of constraints in the IK controllers, so that I could make them follow the torso or not. The Child of Constraints have certain problems when adjusting the proportions of the rig, so I decided to go for another method, and I am currently using two different IK controllers, one parented to the torso and another one parented to the Master bone. With IPO driven constraints, I make the arm follow one or another.
Sudai, it would be great if you could add a copy rotation constraint to the controller of the head, so than the head not only followed its position, bu also rotated along with it, because currently, if I want the head to rotate in place, I have to manually rotate the Head_Track bone.
http://www.cdupload.com/files/30154_dv8as/2ndPreReleaseBDRiggedCharacter.rar
Don’t try that link for another day or two though, bandwidth issues.
WIP rig from my character thread:
http://blenderartists.org/forum/showthread.php?t=117247
Also, there are several free Blender rigs floating around in general and on this forum. Googling “blender rig” comes up with several, including the links on this page:
http://www.11secondclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=228 - some might be a little old and need tweaking for 2.49+
Anyway, all the best with compiling a list of free rigs. Nice idea.
Thanks Guiseppe, I really appreciate you saying so! (gives me fuel to continue!)
Sudai:
I understand what jpbouza meant now. I think it’s important to have an idea of what motions you need your character to be able to do. You can have the IK follow the body or not, that’s really what FK mode is for anyways… but it can come in handy to have the option. jpbouza ran into problems with the parent constraint because of his rig’s ability to be re-proportioned - which is an ability I don’t think you need. I would suggest going ahead and using the parent constraint for 2 reasons:
1.)You’ve already locked the scale of your controllers, so that indicates to me you have no plan to scale them
2.)If you do need to scale your character to fit the scale of your scene, you can do it in object mode - select all the meshes and armatures for your character and then scale them together. :eyebrowlift:
jpbouza:
If you find the the time, I would love it if you posted some simple conceptual demonstrations of some of the components of your rig… so users can see more easily how these things are built :yes:. Such as using the meshdeformer, your face setup, the muscle deformations, the ability to reproportion your character, and easily map a new character onto it.
I think users could surely benefit from your knowledge, but may not be able to decipher it from the rig setup itself since it is so complex! If you find the time, it would be stellar! I’m sure people would appreciate it, I know I would :yes:
BenDansie:
Thank-you for sharing your Lyra rig! I look forward to renewed bandwidth! lol I can’t wait to see it You are a very talented artist, and I look forward to seeing more work from you as well! :eyebrowlift:
My original intention was to have a more interactive sharing and discussion of rigs and rigging, but you’re right… it would be useful to have a link list of all the many rigs available to refer to. So here’s what I’ll do… in the post below, I’ll make the list to other rigs that haven’t been submitted to this thread… then add the link to that post in the first post.
That way the rigs being discussed actively in the thread are not confused with the huge list of rigs available! I will surf around this afternoon and see what I can find for the list…
I think I will also do the same thing in the quad thread.
Cheers!