Rigging not close to being ready yet

Just tried to rig a character in 2.8. We have a long ways to go for 2.8. Rather than post a litany of issues, I think that it is better to just wait. One thing I think would help is that one needs to keep in mind that what works well in 2.79 and try to keep it. For instance, local view and it’s shortcut. One issue that I’ve always had with Blender is that once you are in BBone or Stick mode, I have a hard time telling the head from the tail on the bones. it’s still there. It seems like the focus of “user friendly” is an excuse. How friendly is it if you have to totally relearn something? If you can’t easily find it in the new one, then to me it is not this user’s friend. With that said, I think a lot of good ideas are floating around out there, but did we bite off more than we can chew for this hyped first round? Do expectations need to be reset again such as the offset capability for linked assets was? What do we do in the meantime? Well, wait or help. What about our friend documentation? Is he going to take a backseat again? So many concerns. So little time to fix it. Sorry for my rant.

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I doubt that 2.80 will handle everything 2.79 does.
The fact that 2.80 is removing barriers implies that new ones have to be set up.
I think there is an underestimation of work needed to do that from everybody (community members and devs).

But no. 2.8 design is really more user friendly.
It is just not more friendly to specific type of user you are.

If you let 2D animators or newbies or modelers leading debates and discussions, there is no chance to have a user friendly rigging workspace in Blender 2.80.
You have to share your views in a clean and argumentative way to aggregate agreement of other riggers to convince developers to work a specific feature.

Beta is supposed to be feature complete in 2 or 3 weeks and it is true that being forced to use X-ray is awful in comparison to aspect of In Front for a skinning/weight painting workflow.
But if nobody says that, devs can think that what is there is sufficient.
So, go to devtalk forum, create a thread per non-satisfying UI/Workflow rigging task.

A dev cannot think to every use of blender when he creates something. Same way as a user cannot think of each possible use of a feature. It is the reason to ask to a community to participate to discussions.

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Totally agree. You should really talk about this in an even handed and non emotional way on devtalk. Present the issues as topics of discussion and you will find people more understanding than you might think. :slight_smile:

Also, you left out the actual meat of the discussion here (which may ot may not be a good idea) but you should be very specific on devtalk. Since I do rigging in Blender but haven’t tried it yet in 2.8, I’d love to know some of the issues turning up before I start.

Maybe I’ve been lucky but rigs seem to be working for me. I’ve noticed that finagled dependencies that caused frame lag in 2.79 seem to work without that problem in 2.8, for instance “bone modified by mesh modified by armature” type stuff.

I’ve noticed vertex parenting isn’t working on the CTRL-P constraint, but the Child Of constraint works fine in lieu of that.

I’ve had some issues with the NLA output getting confused and not updating the armature. And one of my favourites, the Wireframe modifier, just kills armature animation dead, currently. But this is an Alpha so that’s just the kind of thing to expect. If there weren’t any bugs it would be the Final :smiley:

The new system (is it the legendary “depsgraph”?) does seem to work much better as described in my first paragraph. This is a Very Good Thing in my view.

Why not rig things in 2.79 and proxy over? Backwards compatibility works mostly without flaw. Only thing needs fixing is the UI accuracy.

For bugs and broken backward compatibility, it’s probably best to wait for the Beta release and report bugs the correct way. Many things can be fixed within 3 weeks until Beta is released.

Some issues have already been reported in this forum, but it’s probably kind of useless to hassle more given the “work in progress” state of Blender 2.8 currently.

I wasn’t reporting or trying to get these fixed. I was commenting that I’d found few issues and expect things to not be finished in an Alpha. I was being positive in reporting that effectively the new despgraph (I presume it is that responsible) is that much better that I prefer working around the unfinished status of 2.8 instead of continuing with 2.79. Everything feels cleaner, there is less time doing the “what workaround do I need for this awkward thing?” and also faster in my experience so far.

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Yup jaxtraw sorry, I clicked the wrong “Reply” button, I wanted to leave a general reply instead of a specific reply to your message. But it seems I can’t edit afterward the reply assignation.

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Thank you. I had already posted several requests of which many were accepted and some were shit canned. I was just ranting. I guess the king does have clothes on.

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If you are working with UE4 better stick to 2.79 and autorig pro if you want to keep your sanity!