Saying THANKS for Blender !

General Forums Blender and CG Discussions
21

There are Fanboys, saying Blender is the greatest thing ever, the only “true” tool, capable of godly things, worshipping Blender as their one true god. Everyone who doesn’t worship the same god as them, is an infidel in their eyes. (Not seen yet in this thread.)

Then there are the craftsmen and artist, people with both of their feed on the ground, seeing Blender as a tool to work with. They rationally wage pros and cons against each other, compare the tool with other tools they use and know, forming an opinion based on that and embedding Blender as tool into their workflow OR NOT.

And then there is Tiles, the complete opposite of the Fanboy (the Antifanboy). Telling his opinion about a tool, disguising it as fact, while obviously having limited experience in using other tools.
He’s propagating the tool, that is Blender, as Satan, calling everyone a “troll” or “unprofessional” who has a different opinion as his own, thinking they are “worshipping” Satan, when in reality Satan is nothing more than a tool for them.
In principle he’s doing the same as the Fanboys, calling everyone who doesn’t share his believes a infidel.

Say no to this holy war!

Yes, I am exaggerating!

  1. Sclupting! No extra program like z-Brush needed, ALTHOUGH it is simpler, it HAS all i need.

Lol :smiley:
I guess you know better what his needs are then. Sure you are not the troll?

If you can only guess you should maybe just keep your opinion to yourself.

Apples and pears, apples and pears.

No, you CAN!
Although it may not be as easy as elsewhere.

I want to subscribe to your view and join the gratitude towards the developers and contributers!

22

It`s a difference if you defend something because of good reasons and with good arguments. Or with ignoring all facts and arguments, with stating wrong things, and with just the goal to defend the fan product. And this with all possible and impossible weapons like bashing and discrediting the opponent, telling him to shut up, etc.

And then there is Tiles, the complete opposite of the Fanboy (the Antifanboy). Telling his opinion about a tool, disguising it as fact, while obviously having limited experience in using other tools.

Your opinion is bred through sheer ignorance.

Thanks for proving my point folks :slight_smile:

23

So, what is your point exactly. Use simply English in short sentence. Eng. is not my first language.

24

Do you mean me? My point is that the TO has completely exaggerated with praising Blender and bashing Maya. Add to this the timing that the thread gots started while all other UI discussions starts to escalate. Which leads me to the conclusion that this is a pure troll post. With the only goal to escalate the situation even more.

And in fact, the same people who starts to run amok in the other threads, who tells people to leave Blender, who discredits opinions and persons, who igores provable facts, the same persons who makes it impossible to continue a useful and constructive discussion, jumps into this thread here now too. Playing guard again for the holy Blender.

I would be crazy to continue this discussion. I`m outta here.

25

I would be crazy to continue this discussion. I`m outta here.

I GOT IT!
(but I don’t believe you) :wink:

26

Is that the new style of debate? You call somebody a troll, write a bunch of half-informed drivel, then instead of addressing any of the counter-points you just declare that we “proved your point”?

Well then, all I can say is: Thanks for proving my point.

27

Yes, this is the new style of the debate. You declare my examples and arguments to apples and oranges, or you simply ignore them anyways. No matter what i say. I could even say that the sky is blue and you would still disagree. All you really do is to search points where you can piss me at my leg. This post above here is nothing else.

It makes simply no sense to discuss with you. You waste my time. I have better things to do.

28

It makes simply no sense to discuss with you. You waste my time. I have better things to do.

No, you don’t. Your games are useless, the few people who want to play them just can’t afford better games. Those are the cold, hard facts. Also, your tile sets suck. You can buy much better tile sets online. Also you should make Flash games, nobody wants to download exe files. Really, how do you expect to compete with all the other freeware game authors like that?

This is what listening to you (or x3dx) sounds like. Do you get that?

Comparing VRay to Cycles, or ZBrush to Blender is comparing Apples and Oranges. If you’re doing that, you’re either ignorant (as in: you do not know/understand) or deceptive. And I doubt you’re the deceptive kind of guy.

29

I rely at facts instead of “somebody said”. Have a look at the last ten years. Blender tries to catch up since it exists. It didn´t catch up. Autodesk is still number one in the industry. And the Industry still gives a Fu** about Blender. Simply because it cannot deliver what is needed. It has not the same evolution pressure that would lead Blender into the right direction. Nor has it the manpower. So it`s pretty save to say that Blender will never catch up.

You talk about “Fanboys”? Look at who’s saying Autodesk is the “be all and end all” software out there. Fanboy!

What we have is mostly core functionality with a bit eye candy compared to the industry tools out there. A sculpting that sucks at all ends and is unperformant like hell. A outdated bones system that cannot really compete anymore. A cumbersome and limited to use texture painting. Slow and cumbersome modeling. And so on. There is not a single area where Blender could really shine or compete with a really professional tool. And in the area where eye candy is really needed to speed up the workflow, in the UI area, there it lacks of exactly that.
You’ve come to a Saying THANKS to Blender thread, and puke up a bunch of nothing except “Blender’s Bad” bullshit. Then you post a wall of more bullshit to justify your previous bullshit.

You said earlier “I’m out of here”. Why are you still here? You’re a troll.--------BYE

30

Hohoho! I sure proved my point by being coy, evasive, and snooty! By calling me out for being an asshat, people who use Blender are obviously… Well, what more to I need to say!

Definitely not trolling!

31

Hello… my name is Dam-Org and I am fanboy (hello Dam-Org). Blender is good for some purposes, blender is not so good for another purposes… It’s fine for me. Thank u Ton and other devs for Blender.

32

I’m in a position to know how much blood sweat and tears goes into software projects on the scale of Blender. So, I say thanks to the developers. And personally, I feel humbled by their example.

33

@Tiles

You realize that every answer that you gave would imply at least 10 Applications in the pipeline AND mastering them.
And you realize that NOBODY can learn them ALL if you have a small team !

You realize that we are NOT talking about a 500 man company with programmers,etc… that have INHOUSE tools, also, do you ?
We are talking about the average artist and/or small teams.

Maya, Realflow/Naiad, Octane Render/Arnold/PrMan (Vray is NOT an option > weak spectral rendering integrator), zBrush/Mari, Nuke/Fusion, Flame/Smoke, Pftrack, etc…

Guess what ? Even if you can achieve only 50% of all of them with Blender (which i highly underestimate!), it’s worth using it.

And do you have ANY idea what it means to integrate ALL of these into a WORKING pipeline, also over a network ? Because for ex. you would need Mari on Windows, but Arnold-slaves (cpu!) on Linux, etc…
Hundrets of senior technician man-hours, FibreChannel/10GbE SAN, etc… and IF you have used ALL of them, then you WOULD know how MANY bugs, incompatibilities, latency problems, (Maya is a parade example of 15 years of an OLD MEL interface that has to drop EVERY version a new compiler feature !!!) there are! Even with GOLD support contracts, many small teams DON’t get the fast turnaround of open source ! I felt it FIRST HAND! Now guess what ? There are also ONLY 2-3 programmers that have the REAL knowledge about that X or Y algorithm in very expensive Apps, and guess what ? There are Millions of clients, the rest is marketing!
Also, have you EVER administered a 256 CPU cluster on PRman ?

Dude, have you ANY idea what the difference is to what i said in the first post ? Based on your post, NO.

Dude, do yourself a favor, and use octane(unbiased) or Arnold/PRman, then you forget Vray (VrayRT is a Joke), and then do yourself a favor and compare to Cycles, then you understand WHAT i mean. I know the render times with Monte Carlo/Pathtracing, even if Cycles has for example still no volumetrics (can be added in Post (z-buffer)). LOL

Right NOW, for small teams and single artists (not Weta!) there are ONLY 2 Packages that fit REALLY well, Blender OR Modo. Period.
Everything else is a pain in the ass of complexitiy (and also money, yeah blame me for that too, LOL !), people resources OR only for LARGE SCALE IMPLEMENTATIONS! I know it, cause i DID it !

I never said Blender is the uber tool, i only said what it did to ME! You can take it or leave it!

Yes it is my opinion, you have yours too. If you look to me as a fanboy (thanks for the insult), then for me you look like a paid Autodesk submarine.

34

enlinnacs,

I think it’s a great idea that you started this thread. People tend very often to behave like children by insisting on what “they want”, but not enough time is spent being thankful for the “gift” of these great tools we have. Thank you to Ton and all the developers for giving me the opportunity to learn 3d!.. and I didn’t have to pirate software to do it:)

Often times the discussions that compare Blender to commercial software miss the point in my opinion. The best feature that Blender has is that it’s OpenSource, and available to everyone…this is no small feature! People in most parts of the world are paying the equivalent of a year or more salary to have a license for the commercial packages… how is this fair?

It used to be that film or video cameras were only available to big studios or the very wealthy… well not anymore. It’s called democratization, and I’m happy that people are not excluded for financial reasons (especially if they have talent that would have been lost to the world).

For the big studios price isn’t an option so why do we care if they accept Blender as viable, they’re only concerned in the “business” of 3d. What I’m saying is that Blender is opening up a whole new world to those who wouldn’t otherwise be invited to the party.

Is it perfect? of course not but it’s going in the right direction thanks to the “community”, and the leaders that care more about it than simply an increased profit margin. I’m not a fan-boy because I don’t pretend that Blender can do anything that other packages out there can’t, but I am a great supporter of the Open Source movement:)

THANKS BLENDER!!!

p.s. DON’T FEED THE TROLLS:)

35

Ooh, what a nice kick in the air. Now you show your real face Zalamander. But you missed my balls :wink:

I am proud at my graphics and games. Even the very old ones which are really bad because i was a bloody beginner at that point. And the success proves me right. Some commercial game factories would be proud to have my number of downloads. And my graphics are in more games already than you will ever play. Even when you would play through ten games every day for the rest of your life. Because i was one of the rare free graphics resource pages for games for years. The whole hobby development world was and is my guest. And the quality of my graphics is good enough that they get used in commercial titles and even books too.

People remembers my name and page. How many people know your name? And for what reason? Being a Blender Fanboy and running amok at Blender Artists?

You may make good graphics (which you still have to prove), i make complete games and free graphics for the world. They may not be the best, but they are good enough and they are known. I make everything at my games by myself. And i really mean everything. Code, graphics, sound fx, even the music is self composed. And when you want to piss me at my leg by making my graphics bad, then you have to use my newest generation to compare. Not the ten years old ones where i was a beginner and where i have used tools that doesn`t even exist anymore. And which are still very wanted by the way.

For those who want to have a look, Alister, the game that i have in development at the moment, can be played here: http://www.reinerstilesets.de/spiele/in-development-alister/

And by the way, Blender is part of my pipeline. So you can say that Alister is made with Blender. Blender is good. It`s just not the best tool in the world. And has quite a few shortcomings. Which i would love to see fixed. And not defended and declared to uberfeatures by fanboys. So that i can stay away from the Autodesk stuff.

Now where is your portfolio with the games that you have made in the past, Mister Ubergrafikerloudmouthiambetterthanyou? Show me your coding skills. Show me your graphics skills. Show me your musician skills. Show me that you are able to organize the development of a whole game. Show me that you are able to work three years at one project, and finish it. Show me why you think that your dick is longer than mine.

There must be a reason why you don`t link your portfolio here. Anxious that people see how shitty your graphics really are? I bet you are not able to build at least a proper table for a game. This needs quite a few skills and knowledge, you know, and is a bit more complicated than making simple graphics for stills …

A shame that it is necessary to lead the discussion at this level …

Look at who’s saying Autodesk is the “be all and end all” software out there. Fanboy!

Another kick in the air. Never said that. Just saying that it is the industry standard. For good reason. And that Blender has quite a few shortcomings. Ignoring them and nice words doesn`t make them go away.

It`s a difference if you defend something because of good reasons and with good arguments. Or with ignoring all facts and arguments, with stating wrong things, and with just the goal to defend the fan product. And this with all possible and impossible weapons like bashing and discrediting the opponent, telling him to shut up, etc.

Again, thanks for proving my point folks :slight_smile:

Blender Artists has a really nasty fanboy problem …

I never said Blender is the uber tool, i only said what it did to ME! You can take it or leave it!

Taken. And i find it good that you react relative normal, with just one sidekick that i deserved i would say. Not like the rest of the folks here, which are again out of control.

But it sounded like “ubertool” when i read your first post. This post now sounds quite a bit different. Now you provide a few more facts, and not just opinions and praises. Thanks for that. I take my troll statement back. I even agree with what you say now at a few points. And to repeat myself, Blender is not bad. I use it in my pipeline too. It`s just that there is nearly always a better tool in the commercial section. Better in terms of faster workflow, more accurate results, and visibly better quality. And this leads normally away from Blender, not towards Blender. Well yeah, VrayRT was indeed reported to suck …

Im just all against this "Blender is THE ubertool, basta" fanboy kind of discussion without any substance. While the industry ignores Blender for quite a few known but always ignored reasons. Add to that that you are a very rare person with that kind of opinion. I see it the first time to be honest. Normally its the other direction. People changes from Blender to xyz. And that your timing was very bad, regarding the current UI debate that went out of control.

The first step to fix a problem is to realize that it exists. The UI for example has quite a few areas where even small changings could speed up the workflow dramatically. And when the devs always just hear, all is fine, then they will not fix the problems. They have no reason to then.

36

On the Polish forums is the same situation as here:
“Be positive member, do not be fanboy, be humble pussy that respects all but blender developers.
You can say whatever you want, just absolutely never compliment advantages of Blender, because it is fanboyism”
I understand that Autodesk’s customers defend of their choice, but there is something really very wrong when Blender users do not permit other blender users to express their feelings on blenderartists forum, while being Andrew Price’s fanboy seems to be ok for them. He is the person who sticks Blender to Maya users mouth on CGSociety
Priceism is much worse than fanboyism.

37

Blender is a great piece of software. Thanks a lot to the developers and the community!!
But it is also far from perfect. The points outlined by Tiles in the post above are mostly true too.
I like the this thread by enilnacs because it shows the positive assets of Blender and all the efforts made by the developers in the last years, which cannot be emphasized enough.

We don’t need fanboys and haters, who only can see the positive or the negative side of Blender. The only way to improve the software is a friendly factual discussion process. The world is not only black and white!

38

@Tiles

Well, first thanks for understanding me, i am sure we will get along well :cool:

Second, there will ALWAYS be some tools that are better, but, better for WHO ?

Cause it is NOT only money if we are speaking of a commercial production pipeline, end even in-house tools that you cannot buy are even better at some things (Weta has a great tissue program for ex., nobody gets it). In 35% of the “industry” we are actually talking about single artists, then 50% small team companies (broadcast, ads, viz, arch, etc.), and only 15% are the big studios (Weta&Co.)

The amount of technical implementation is even for a 25 artists 3D studio really huge, especially when it gets down to the customization and deadlines, also the costs explode exponentially (also using Blender!)!

So, the best tool ist that which serves your MOST MINIMAL(!) target. If you can it by using Blender, then exchange artists between tasks, use the same knowledge, UI and features between them, and at the same time make that what you want, regardless of “better” tools, then it’s the right tool. No matter what the “big” ones use.

So i wouldn’t say that it leads away from Blender, cause no tool is molded into stone, for huge VFX companies (they even in-house customize blender for previz!).

Cause it’s always the same with them: “If we don’t have it, we program it new, cause we can, and we need to push the EDGE!” (actually this is how Maya SURVIVED!) If for example tomorrow Weta or ILM would say: "We suit Blender for our production, the next year Blender would be a “standard”. Its ONLY politics, anything can be programmed. :eyebrowlift:

A bread and butter artist or small company can only smile at something like that… cause he/they use Blender for their purpose only… but it fulfills what it needs to wonderfully.

Sidejoke:
And then, no matter how many shaders, people, companies, etc… are making a 500 Mio. 3D blockbuster, now and then, here and there, comes a very small production with a B/W and even mute (lol) movie and gets an oscar (The Artist). :D:D:D

So, even that is relative what “big” really means… :smiley:
Could you win an Oscar with Blender ? Absolutely! It’s all about the story…

39

Hardly anyone who has done serious work with blender believes it is the best tool for the job - besides if it was there would be no point in developing it further right? But the fact is that there are a quite a few tools in blender that enable users to do 3D graphics of good quality. I don’t see how expressing gratitude at that is considered funboyism.

A negative aspect of funboyism is when people bash users of other software or if developers become too comfortable with the status of the software influenced by proclamations of uberness.The real problem is the first.

All this aside it is alarming and sad to see a forum like blenderartists, which is common ground for people with a passion for art, people who are supposed to be sensitive and cultured, become such a battlefield and ground for comparing one’s expertise and ego against the other. Maybe it’s a mirror of the world, where things are getting hectic, but then again I hardly see such a behaviour on other graphics forums.

40

It’s the first time I see a forum dedicated to a specific software, where some people recommend not to comment on good personal experiences with this software because otherwise they can be considered fanboys or trolls. Hello people! is a Blender 3D forum! What do you expect?.

I wonder what would happen if in a forum of those other software which are commonly mentioned in this forum, an user repeatedly dares to criticize and complain about (what that person thinks are) flaws/lacks in this software.
Actually not even know if these programs have open/public sites to report problems and errors or wishlist where things can be discussed openly.