Should Pie menus replace regular pop-up menus?

There are now pie menus in blender. But, obviously by design, they didn’t replace the old pop up menus. So, now we have 2 menu systems in parallel.
I am curious what is the opinion of the community?

Please, vote in the poll.

This is not an official poll, but I will try to communicate the results to the developers.

both are in parallel gets my vote… i really don’t like nested ones…

but also whether on or off by default they should be a user preference.

a shame that in edit mode ctrl-tab is an old style menu… it’s an obvious candidate for pie!

I think your poll is misleading, because the current state is NOT that, “both are in parallel, some menus in pie, some regular.”
Why would you say that?
The current state is that pies have to be enabled by the user one by one.
What version are you referring to? To me ‘current state’ means either master (2.71) or stable (2.70).
Voting in a poll with misleading choices kind of defeats the purpose.

Sorry for misleading, didn’t mean to .
I am using now a 2 days old build(so, this will be 2.72), and in this one, pie menus are there, but I didn’t find any pie menu enabled at all.
what choices would you add to the poll?

Your poll is not defined well. It sounds like should we have hotkeys replace menus.
These are all things that are there for users to acces programs functionality whichever way suites them the best.

Granted, the current state of PieMenus is a barebone code. You basically have to build your own piemenus.

Take LiquidApe’s Pie Menu Addon as an example of what PMs can really be.
Judging by the sound of your poll I have a feeling you haven’t used Pie Menus.

Tried them, they make work even slower. With so many smart ideas to copy, why the one selected is a dumb one?

Thanks for your constructive, informative critique. I´m sure it will help developers alot :slight_smile:

When an idea is completely wrong, a “go back to the drawing board” is the only rational feedback unless you have to care for some “unique snowflakes” fragile-as-crystal self-esteem.

Pie menus are todays fashion, they have been added, all are rejocing [1]. Just maintain them optional, otherwise Blender would become unusable.

[1] why this time the mantra Blender-is-different-and-this-is-good has not been followed? following standard left button selection is bad, aping Maya/Studio pie menus is good?

all this is for the UI team to decide… just let them cause the results of this poll might not influence their decision at all.

Pie menu is slower to use if you are familiar with shortcuts.

make it optional and let each user decide what is best for them. if you like it use it and if not don’t. it does not have to be a division of the community.

I for one welcome another UI element for executing commands. Blender is probably the most shortcut heavy software I have ever used with default list of more than 300 or so keys. How many can you list of top of your head before you start to slow down and have to think a few seconds before you remember?

Toolbar is next to unusable for me since its too far and the text buttons (all the same color and low contrast) don’t really cater to quick selection. There is no default right click menu (something I used all the time in Wings3d and Softimage).

Pie menus, list menus, and hopefully icon/icon+text toolbars should be in. More options the better.

This is not really true, made more evident when you have to deal with a larger set of hotkeys.

Pie menus consolidate that functionality into less buttons, which makes it faster. Your hand will not need to hover far from where its parked at any given time as a result. Once you get used to the pie workflow “press, swipe in direction, let go” it becomes one of the fastest workflows you can find in this particular field.

Again you have failed to elaborate as to what is “completely wrong”. And have you ever tried the pie menus in Maya? Pie menus are far from “today´s” fashion, there are plenty of past implementations and research that contributed to the advent of pies in Blender. And I suppose you haven´t followed developments, but left button selection is coming to Blender as well.

I agree 100% with you!

If Pie menu is full customizable then it will speedup modeling. Own shortcuts like 1,2,3 …selecting vertex/edge/facemode and everything rest which are 1keys or with Shift/Ctrl/Alt, fex. Scale, pie menu cant beat that modeling speed.

I’m happy with the pie menu initial results. I know it’s still a work in progress. (I’m not sure if the one I downloaded was from the main devs, it says version 1.01 version, with authors Dan Elcher, Sean Olson and Patrick Moore.)

Anyway, I like how they appear on the screen and their proximity to the cursor.

Customization is the key here. It should also be assigned to any key you want. The current spacebar assignment for the default does nothing for me. It’s a search pop up and list of terms I don’t even use.

To me the search bar should just appear somewhere on the UI and stay there PERMANENTLY like next to the OpenGL render active viewport icon (near the magnet icon.) It should not even be a pop up.

I’ll most likely assign the pie menus on the spacebar, I don’t know. Let’s see. I want pie menus for sculpting, modeling, etc.

It’s looking great!

Anyone already have customized pie menus specifically for sculpting? I want to pick brushes faster, enable dyntopo, do away with scrolling, pick toggles faster like mirror on and off, x, y, z, etc. etc. :wink:

Hence is one of the good things about pies, the other good thing is that it will allow the operator to be invoked right where the mouse is instead of from the left side like where the toolbar is. Heck, I think we can actually remove the more location-dependent operators from the toolbar and replace them with ones more suited to being there.

Overall, paring down the hotkeys needed means less modifier combos as well, imagine having a pie with all of the useful face filling functions just by pressing ‘F’ instead of needing ‘Shift F’ to access the existing menu (with ‘fill’ being the default tool selected of course).

The current state is a mix of options 1 and 3. Even if you change that the poll is still confusing - does option 2 mean that users can’t choose to use menus and that they will be removed from the code entirely, or do you mean turned on by default? Not making the distinction between ‘default’ and ‘removed entirely from the code’ derails many of the UI discussions on this forum and needs to be clearly stated. The only clear and unambiguous choice is 4!

Please don’t get me wrong, I like the Pie menus as long as they don’t replace current UI but supplement it. Unfortunately the loss of sticky keys makes the current implementation of pies do exactly this, for instance the Tab key is taken over, and if I just want to quickly switch between edit and object mode I can’t*, even with the fastest swipe it’s still a distraction. Ditto the snap and pivot shortcuts being taken over by pie menus. It would make so much sense to have the menus spawn if I hold the . key down but if I tap it I switch immediately to cursor pivot etc.

Without the sticky keys feature I feel that pie menus are not going to get a fair evaluation, and taking a poll without it is premature.

*Well I can, because I have that mapped onto right double click, and in fact all my modes are mapped to shortcuts, so I can leave some pies enabled. Otherwise I would be waiting for sticky keys.

Sorry, I thought that it was obvious (I always commit the mistake of projecting my intellingence upon others).

Three reasons why these menus suck:

  • the tags are very far away from the center so you have to look away hunting for the small tag which shows the action, in a large circular search, with randomly missing items among the 8 possible directions (why waste time working when you can play hunt-the-small-tag game?);
  • if you use the swipe action (so Minority Report… what a bad thing being a grown up who distinguishes fantasy from reality, really sucks when you are in a kindergarten) you have to memorize the appropriate directions for each option, for each menu (I agree, a decent Alzheimer detection test);
  • how long before the developers will “refactor” menus/options position, sending the motor learning effort down the drain (in some menus, in some others not, so you will have to remember which menu is unchanged and which is changed and how, another good Alzheimer test).

Anyway, if they stay optional, you can all play swipe-the-mirror-games, I don’t care. If they become mandatory, it is really time I get a piggybank.