Solid Critique Desired: SSS+Node skin and eye shader.

I am posting this here because, though I love them as I would my children, the people in the Work in Progress section are as much use with critiques, collectively, as a can of spam.

Just so you know what you’re getting: (Model is not mine, generously donated by aws357. Shader is mine. Textures painted, not taken from photo*. No post-pro except to blur out a tiny geometric glitch.)

Anyway, I want these shaders to WORK, so please, if anyone has any recommendations to make, they’ll be considered carefully, and should be implemented as necessary. Seriously. Even if it turns out that it sucks and that I shouldn’t work on it any more, I WILL remember what is said for next time, so feel free to speak.

[Sucky picture removed. Newer picture down the page.]

(*Only the iris was taken direct from a photo, because human irises are too awesome not to use. The lips were based off a photo, but it was mangled, distorted and over-painted enough that it barely counts. :P)

Overall, too red. She looks sunburned. There’s two sources of specularity on the face: water and oil. The lips and the inside of the eyelids especially the area around the tear ducts should look wet (as well as the eyes, of course, but you’ve got that already), bump up the spec there. The oily parts of the face are the tip and side of the nose running onto the cheekbones beneath the eyes, the chin and the middle of the forehead.

The bags under the eyes (not that she has them, but the spot where they’ll be) generally have a bluish tint, I guess there are a lot of capillary veins near the surface there, as well as the corner of the eye near the tear duct. You’ve got a tiny bit of that going under the left eye, but it should spread further and be a bit more pronounced. Even late teen, twenty something girls have that bluish tinge, unless they powder it out.

Bump map: she needs a few lines showing where she’ll get wrinkles: under the eye, around the eyelids and around the corners of the mouth especially.

She needs some freckles and moles. She has some pimply things going on near her nose, but they don’t look like moles or freckles.

The first thing I noticed is there is absolutely no spec whatsoever. The spec should be based upon sweat gland distribution on the face.

Second is (Orinoco got part of it) the red is badly distributed. More red in the larger flatter areas with less in the more geographically busy areas (generally true, though there are likely to be some huge exceptions).

I see wrinkles in odd places (like the cheek and under the eye) for a face this young. The only places you might see wrinkles of any kind would be the smile crease from the corner of the mouth and perhaps a little on the chin and forehead.

Freckle distro is all wrong as well. Freckles are limited (for the most part) to upturned surfaces of the face and taper off as the hair line is approached.

I hope this all helps.

This is far beyond what I can do (now that I have turned my sites elsewhere I doubt I will ever achieve the likes of this).

o, i saw some spec. there but i agree a proper spec. map is a must on a realistic head model :slight_smile:

some usefull resources:

check out the “Skin Shading with Mental Ray” & the “Introduction to Subsurface Scattering” at the free tutorials section of the
iirc you’ll have to use torrent to download em… :slight_smile: otherwise registration in the forum there is needed! :stuck_out_tongue:

Felix, including the one for the really old, wrinkly man’s face(not good) all those tutorials are for people with much better shader systems than Blender’s, except for the one that’s for a video-game skin.

Anyway, I have a spec map, but I turned it down after because I didn’t want it to look greasy. I think a lot of the problems you guys mentioned were the result of me not wanting to horribly exaggerate anything.

Thanks people. Honestly, it’s my first effort at even texturing skin, let alone shading, so I have next to no experience to back me up. :stuck_out_tongue: Working through the list, now. Unfortunately, most of the things you mentioned are things that I appear to have been blind to, up until the point where you made them blazingly self-evident, so I feel kinda silly now. XD

Edit: Durk! Turns out I had a bad monitor profile! It’s calibrated now, and boy does that look crappy.

Hi, BlackBoe, I think, for a first attempt at a realistic Skin Shader you have produced a very good result. Very youthful, clean skin. Probably one of the best shaders i have seen for a while. This could provide a base as to work from for most skin situations.
Whilst the crit’s have merit, you have done a beautiful job.

:smiley: crits seems fair enough… (and you asked for it hehehe)

:slight_smile: the previous scar on the lips gave a nice veteran touch. Hope they will come back afterward :wink:

oh I forgot the usual
:smiley: <— Speechless

I would agree with most everything said so far (especially about the WIP forum. :P) I think the only thing I’d disagree about is that she needs less freckles in certain areas, namely the forehead. I’m totally digging the eyes, except the part where they meet the tear-ducts. Perhaps the eye that is in shadow is reflecting a bit too much light as well. It seems to pop out at you a bit when just glancing at the picture.

Generally, you hit the nail square on the head for personality in this one. There certainly are people with a high amount of freckles or hardly any oil in their face, so it’s a completely believable shader, but I assume you’d like a general base to start from and to go from there. Nice jorb! :slight_smile:

zog34 & orinoco: Thanks for your help. Keep on hammering, please. :]

I asked for it, indeed, and I’m very thankful for people’s help. Also, I liked the split lip, too, but I think that–for now–I’ll get the shader down before roughing it up a bit. :stuck_out_tongue:

The corner of the eye thing isn’t actually there, is probably the problem. That’s aws357’s department, though; he’s the modeler and he applied a subdiv modifier before releasing it, so my hands are tied.

Anyway, here it is. Bear in mind, there might be a problem with the left ear, but it’s 2:10AM, and I am not going to adjust and re-render without shooting myself through the head, first. I don’t want to do that, so I’ll leave it like it is for now and call it an improvement.


EDIT: Most of my time was spent trying to re-work the shader, so as a result I may not have tweaked the textures as much as I should have. If anything looks wonky, please tell me.

oh, i don’t see anything much wrong with the left, but her right… or did you mean the ear that’s on our left? :confused: ahh, anyways, doesn’t matter i think i can see what you mean now :stuck_out_tongue:

Zepher: The corner of the eye thing isn’t actually there, is probably the problem. That’s aws357’s department, though; he’s the modeler and he applied a subdiv modifier before releasing it, so my hands are tied.

:eyebrowlift2: initialy, I didn’t plan to look at the face from such a close distance…
Is that about some missing tear duct region or something?

About the eyelashes, they might be a bit regularly disposed. If you look at this picture, the make up pack several lashes to give the illusion of big and long lashes :slight_smile:

my 2 cents…

:smiley: <— still speechless

A good texture can really change the way a model looks… it’s almost frightening…

Felix_Kütt: Heh, clear as day. :stuck_out_tongue: Yeah, though, it’s our left.

aws357: I should mention that the I totally agree about the lashes. They’re only planes right now, and thus dead flat, which doesn’t help with the look. When I get this back to you, though, you should try setting up something with particles, instead. Same might go for the eyebrows, if pulled off correctly they’d really bring things up. :]

There’s been a release of Jahka’s Particles + Broken’s Shadows. I’ve been using the new soft shadows to light the face, so you should see if you can get your hands on that. There’s a clumping setting, actually, that performs extremely similar to the eyelashes in your picture.

hey thats sum very good work, but u get the problem that i get with SSS sometimes which is the (our) left ear looks like wax. keep up the good work.

Very nice so far.

The insides of the eyelids seem very pink to me, much brighter than I feel they should be for the amount of light they are getting, and they should be redder.

There are lots of tiny brown dots on the forehead that seem quite out of place. From a slight distance, when you can’t make them out individually it works very nicely, but close up it looks wrong to me.

If they are pores, have you tried using them as nor rather than col?

For your consideration.

BTW, round two looks great! Huge improvement over round one. :yes:

So what are we looking at here? In the first pic, notice the orange peel texture of the skin near the nose. Very small grain, no color difference, only bump.

Second pic, there are little lines (not wrinkles, just lines) around the corners of the mouth, following the smile crease. Also notice the lack of ‘orange peel’ texture to the skin in this region.

Third pic, no forehead lines yet (she was probably around 20 when this pic was taken) but there are numerous little bumps in the skin, similar to tiny moles, except they are the same color as the skin.

All pics, notice the freckles. From a conversational distance, Andrea (the model) appears unfreckled, but in extreme close up, she has many freckles, its just that they are almost the same color as her skin, there’s only a slight variation in value and maybe they are a touch less saturated. Her chin and forhead freckles are round and small, her cheek freckles are larger and more blotchy shaped.

IanC, I knew something was wrong with the eyelids, thanks. Also, the pores on the forehead are in the normal map as well, but the fact that they’re darker is the beginning of dirt. I can clean them up later if they look out of place still.

Orinoco. Heh, I knew the bump map was too flat, but most of yesterday was spent tweaking the shader. Thanks for the reference–it’s good quality, and my sisters don’t like me staring at their faces constantly. Oh, I did actually add wrinkles around the mouth, but they didn’t show up. I guess most of the lack of the detail has been me afraid of accidentally making her face terminally lumpy looking, but it’s obvious that a lack of such lumpiness detracts a lot from the realism, so it’s time to push it to the limit. :stuck_out_tongue:

:smiley: hehehe… it might be a bit late, but I suppose you found the face had shapes (as the face expression changed from one shot to another…)
If not, maybe the shapes have been erased, but no worries. It takes like 10 sec to do anyway :slight_smile:

:eek: <— BlackBoe staring at his sisters… That would freak out any sisters :stuck_out_tongue:

Now I should also do better hairs (planned to do it anyway). Will send them to you so you can work on something else than a bald head :stuck_out_tongue: (she’s kind of sexier than bald Nathalie Portman don’t you think…? nah… I know. I am biased…)

It is a huge improvement. Nice work.

Looks like everyone pinned what I was thinking. The NorMap is flat, but you’re on that.

Again, nice work.

It was a dumb filter setting. My bad. Looks almost too bumpy now. :stuck_out_tongue: Anyway, I was busyish today, so I don’t have a lot done. Probably saturday’ll be good, though.

Very nice work. For me the most tricky part of SSS it to mix it correctly with the texture as well as right size setup. It would be nice to share the tutorial eventually when your work will be ready.