I think a lot of people who use blender would love to have a professional opportunity to use it.
Some one on the thread mentioned 3d studio max. And the fact is 3dsm is an industry wide used software weather we like the way it works or not.
Wouldn’t it be nice to have Blender become a viable industry software. So Blender artists have an opportunity to use blender for a living.
cekuhnen makes a very valid point
“well with icons or menus you can instantly see where tools are like in Rhino.
It is very logical sorted and all tools are visible.”
I don’t think you have to change the way blender adds objects to a scene. I think it works great. But it would also be nice to have a graphical tool bar as well.
simple things like that give people a level of comfort in using an app. And also in being allowed to use that app. in a professional environment.
Fortunately or unfortunately some of these changes need to be implemented into future versions of Blender to make that happen.
I agree. I’ve even noticed some old timers learning about tools that have been around for a while, but they haven’t discovered them. To some extent, the convenient hot keys make it easy to never use the menus, so people can blend away and not discover all the tools.
One of the benefits of commercial software is the companies hire people to write documentation and to engineer the user interfaces. With Open Source, the developers do the engineering and the documentation is left in the hands of volonteers. It’s hard to be comprehensive, and its hard to keep up with the changes and new features.
Some of the main functionality you mentioned, such as splitting windows for use with separate monitors, etc, is already implemented in the 2.5 development branch. That will be a really nice development, and it won’t force anybody into an overlapping interface if they don’t want one.
The Bezier curve is probably the way it is because drawing the curve is analogous to extruding vertices or other geometry in Blender. Ctrl-LMB will extrude the curve to the mouse/pen position and that would work great for Bezier curves except for the fact that the control points always maintain a fixed angle, rather than angling intelligently to create a shapely curve. If this were fixed, then Blender’s current approach would be as good as a Bezier pen tool. Actually, this would be a big improvement.
Some good points are made here.
I look forward to a good Materials Preview,
I have read recently read that it is planned along with .blend preview also.
That will be great when it happens!
Much of the other things are in the pipeline also.
Time & patience…
On a Interface note,
Just having a look, mostly everything is available from menus already.
There are approx 20 menu options to access most every function in Blender.
(Not hidden in stacks, but there, right in front of your face, just the way I like it.)
Without using a single hotkey. (Including spacebar, but that’s easier anyway;))
If anything, the Top Menus need to be expanded & fixed so indeed everything could be done through dropdown menu’s for those who prefer browsing through lengthy menu’s or more practically, expanded to include all functions, also serving as a hot key reference.
on mentioning 3DS MAX, lol, what was it like in version 2?:spin:
m.a.
I don’t know much about version 2, but I started my (more serious) 3D career with version 3 (I’m oooold). Believe it or not, the difference was not that great! All the main functions, including materials previews and interface, were IIRC much the same. The functionality added over the years has been various improved tools and some added functions (I never did much particles back in 3, but remember them as fairly simple, a bit simpler than pre-Jahka Blender particles). You have to remember that Max (and AFAIK Maya, XSI and the entire gang) evolve incrementally, each ‘new version’ being a brush-up of old-version experiments and a few new experimental tricks included. The jump from Max 3 to Max 8 (which I actually undertook!) is far less than the jump from Blender 2.4 to 2.5!
But one message that this fact sends is painfully clear: MAX had their GUI down early! It worked, it was direct, and it was above all user-friendly (as much as 3D apps can be). Its force over Blender was, and is still today, that it is easy access. Anything you need within the first few months of using it is right there, with clearly labeled buttons or number fields. Blender can face MAX head-on in functions, but Blender’s goodies are very obscure. Heck, I still hit upon functions I never knew existed today! I never looked up functions in MAX, only tutorials for really advanced stuff. I needed tutorials just to get Blender to do my bidding, at first.
It’s the old learning curve again. Blender is hard to get into, but once inside, it rocks. MAX is a good solid app, but its major advantage today (apart from being widely known) is that it is easy to get started on.
You can’t compare the way a 2D app works with Bezier with what is needed 3D: Blender’s beziers are adapted to what’s needed here. What you wrote though still seem strange: adjust as you go… how else can someone do? You complain that Blender puts a two vertice bezier on the screen: what else can it put, I mean you can’t have a bezier without at least two vertice: position these, select one, use Ctrl+LMB to create other one, position repeat and conclude with Ckey to close the curve if needed. Really what can be simpler?
Another feature that would be nice is the use of floating palates. What I mean by that is to float a palate onto a second monitor of a different size then the main monitor. So the main monitor remains uncluttered and you have more screen real-estate to work with. Other views and palates can be placed on the second display.
Version 2.50 will address all this although I wouldn’t expect palettes to float: Blender UI is non-overlapping by essence. If you want to mess it up you will be able though since it will be possible to clone the Blender Window and pile them up till your heart is content. Please put a warning before publishing any screenshots that I could see. Thank you.
Another feature that would be nice is to be able to build a visual library of material. so it is easier to view them and drag and drop them on to objects. and I don’t mean a python script. Which I and others I know have tried to use but it never worked.
It needs to be built directly into blender. So that it is stable.
I so agree with you but, until a core programmer decides to tackle the problem (or simply sees that there is one there worth his/her attention) Python is what we have. Rather than requesting why don’t you tell us what didn’t work for you so it could be fixed? I know that it takes more time and effort than writing a laundry list.
Python scripts can be as stable as rock.
And lastly and by far least important is a more attractive and up-to-date GUI.
It would be fun. I hate words on buttons: that is what tooltips are for. But I wonder how much any design beyond color and iconed buttons could survive., since blender screen can be fully reconfigured to adapt to specific tasks,
Look: people are listening to suggestions like yours. They have been uttered, all of them, countless time and in various ways, with various special requests, most of them contradictory from one user to the other. Blender will be enhanced UI side within the next year or so and the work will certainly go on for another year, my estimate. Will it be to your taste or not I guess not entirely since you love the ‘other 3D program’s interface’ (which remind me that I have that sister-in-law that maybe you’d like too: she has such a nice personality ).
Blender puts a two vertice bezier on the screen: what else can it put, I mean you can’t have a bezier without at least two vertice: position these, select one, use Ctrl+LMB to create other one, position repeat and conclude with Ckey to close the curve if needed. Really what can be simpler?
Try extruding a curve to follow a nice shape. Each new control points handles are angled the same, regardless of the shape of the curve you try to make. It doesn’t have to be this way. The handles can be automatically angled to interpolate a nice curve from one click to the next. You’d still need to do some adjusting, as you always do with Beziers, but you wouldn’t have to create the entire shape from scratch by pushing handles. In short, I think Ctrl-LMB/curve extrusion could be made more powerful. I wouldn’t call it a huge priority, but it’d be nice.
Automatic handles have existed for as long as I can remember and that is long.
The shortcut to change selected handle to automatic is Shift+H. If the handle from which you extrude (or Ctrl+LMB) is set to the automatic type you’ll get the behavior you’re after.
Automatic handles have existed for as long as I can remember and that is long.
The shortcut to change selected handle to automatic is Shift+H. If the handle from which you extrude (or Ctrl+LMB) is set to the automatic type you’ll get the behavior you’re after.
Sure enough! Actually, I knew about automatic handles, but I’d never had the flash of insight to try setting them that way before extruding. Very nice. Thanks!
A lot can be simpler! A proper pen tool would be great, just like the one in inkscape/illustrator etc, and it’d be much faster to get good curve shapes rather than the huge amount of tweaking we need to do at the present. The fact that it’s 3d is not a problem, we do all our editing in a 2d plane anyway. It’s just a matter of someone having the time and inclination to code it (bonus points for making tablet pressure affect the 3D curve radius!
That’d be great… One thing that bugs me abut the interface is that scripts get kind of tucked away… I reallly don’t like the scripts window…
I’m having to use Maya on a project right now and am loving the tear off menus…
That’d be great, imagine going to the objects/scripts menu and tearing it off t as a floating panel for instant access to your custom tools… (i’ve just been doing a lot of scripting to optimise my pipeline for my current projet) It’s a real boon when you’re not completely familiar with a package too to just leave the menus floating around
A lot of people might say that this isn’t blender philosopy, but what about all those little float panels like view properties or sculpt tools… those that don’t want them can just leave them where they are…
A lot of people might say that this isn’t blender philosopy, but what about all those little float panels like view properties or sculpt tools… those that don’t want them can just leave them where they are…
In response to IamInnocent’s comments about the bezier tool
"You can’t compare the way a 2D app works with Bezier with what is needed 3D: Blender’s beziers are adapted to what’s needed here. What you wrote though still seem strange: adjust as you go… how else can someone do? You complain that Blender puts a two vertice bezier on the screen: what else can it put, I mean you can’t have a bezier without at least two vertice: position these, select one, use Ctrl+LMB to create other one, position repeat and conclude with Ckey to close the curve if needed. Really what can be simpler? "
It seems to me that you have not worked with a proper pen tool before.
Number one you can compare a 2d and 3d bezier pen tool. They do the same thing on a flat plane. Weather you import the bezier from a 2d app or create it in blender.
“I mean you can’t have a bezier without at least two vertice”
With a pen tool no points are added until you click a point. not control click. And with a pen tool if you drag and hold down your mouse you can adjust the bezier control arm as you go. you don’t have to select a point and then press G to adjust it which in my opinion is not efficient. therefore you would not need to start with “two vertice” as you say, you wouldn’t need any until you start drawing with the pen tool.
and to close a loop by pressing the c key. Why do you need that extra step. you should be able to close the loop by clicking your pen tool on the original veritce that you started with like any other pen tool.
And my point about the material library in my opinion is a big enough concern with alot of other people including myself, that it should be addressed by being coded into blender instead of a python script.
I’m not demanding the Blender powers that be correct that problem right now. I was just making a suggestion that I think is worth while to look into.
To quote Cyborg Dragon
“For those who say Blender nearly has all the features we need, keep in mind a 3D program that’s ‘done’ is a dead program.”
Blender is and should be an ever evolving app.
So people are going to have to put their egos aside and let people make suggestions and let Blender evolve.
The problem as I see it… making suggestions without any examples, working or theoretical (in writing with the appropriate research) doesn’t help all that much.
I would personally love to help with the blender project, but until I familiarize myself with the code and what is going on, I keep my ideas to myself. Once I have a grasp on what is going on, I’ll make some changes, submit a patch, and see where it goes.
Don’t get me wrong, discussing blender and what you would like to see isn’t bad at all, but since this was directed at the coders, it would be more appropriate to show either mockups of your suggestions with technical information as to how they may go about implementing it, or point them to research papers that coincide with your ideas.
I think Remmy there is not much needed to show in an image.
A simple main menu with everything in it - from selected viewport properties to select, edit, render menu would greatly reduce screen space usage and centralize tools.
@ papasmurf
I played with that last semester having them vertical - but ended up switching back to horizontal because the display simply has more points this direction. How is your experience? You can dock up to 3 taps and still remain having the tab text readable.
I noticed I ended up more scrolling the tabs in vertical than in horizontal.
The suggestions that were made don’t need detailed explaining.
Better bezier tool. i.e.: Illustrator or Photoshop.
Launch one of those apps and look at the way it works.
Floating pallets but more importantly having pallets on two displays of different sizes.
Launch any app that allows that, which these days is a great deal of graphics apps. and see how it works
Fixing the materials library . look into any other 3D app that uses a material library which is most of them and see how it works. also taking the material library python script thats looks great, but for some of us never worked and incorporating it into Blender.
suggesting that you need to understand code to make suggestion is not realistic.
Do you think when application companies use beta testers for app’s like. QuarkXpress, Photoshop, CorelDraw or Painter. they expect you to understand code?
No. They are asking end users for their advice on there apps because they are day to day users and their insight help the company create a better product.
alot of people are artists and end users and they and including myself may never under stand coding or have the time or the interest to understand it.
But since they work on the application on a day by day basis they try to communicate the problems that they run into. and hopefully make it a better application.
So IMO understanding coding is not a prerequisite to making suggestions.
So IMO understanding coding is not a prerequisite to making suggestions.
Yeah, it cant be. Intolerant ideas like that make for terrible software. Very few good coders are also avid artists, so they cant completely understand what the user is looking for.
Obviously it follows that not all good artists are avid coders, so they cant give you the code(or even the pseudo code) for what they want.
So we have to find the middle ground. Artists say what they want, coders say yay/nay, and maybe explain a bit of reasoning behind the answer.
).
Curves just became A LOT easier to use…