It’s all about your scope, when the dress of your character sucks, when that water simulation is not the sea that it should, when the deadline is upcoming, then you realize that you need better tools.
paolo
Wow, what a post! Blender should really listen more to such seasoned professionals, whose experience could help influence Blender developers to move into a more productive direction! Oh wait, that’s just a random asshole posting on a CG warez forum. Never mind, then.
Seems like that guy didn’t get what he expected from Blender for free, then moved on to pirate the software that he believes to be better. What a loss to the Blender userbase!
This person makes the same mistake that a lot of people on these forums make: “Blender developers” are treated as some sort of amorphous mass, which needs to focus more on X and less on Y. Well, that’s just not how it works. If no developer can or wants to work on complicated and/or boring stuff, and nobody is paying for it, then it’s not happening. You don’t like it? Find another universe where non-paying users are worshiped by volunteer developers.
The argument behind doing more for “the professionals” seems to be that some of them will start using Blender and therefore more money for development comes in. That assumes that there is more money to be made with the professionals than with the hobbyists. The hobbyists are however a much larger market. Hobbyists are also more flexible in that they haven’t already invested in learning expensive commercial packages. Blender would have to do a lot more to get professional attention, versus hobbyist attention.
I would wager that there is actually more money to be made for Blender by pandering to amateurs than professionals - it’s a much lower hanging fruit. Yet, the needs of the almost mythical “professional userbase” dominates the discussion when it comes to improving Blender, even though they’re a clear minority.
That’s the group Blender primarily dominates, and yet a great deal of your posts are complaining that not enough people are donating.
No, it did not, Everyone has at least 3 faces.
This is obvious flamebait. Why isn’t it locked yet?
That’s the group Blender primarily dominates, and yet a great deal of your posts are complaining that not enough people are donating.
When have I ever complained about people not donating? I usually point out how few people donate whenever somebody complains about Blender development and “user needs”.
I don’t actually know where the bulk of donations comes from (amateur vs. professional), but seeing that Gooseberry makes like 3x the money of the development fund, you might as well assume that people are more interested in having more Open Movies made than having Blender be developed directly.
Either way, it seems self-evident that the needs of amateurs are easier to satisfy than those of the professionals. The BI could probably make a lot more money by integrating into Minecraft somehow and selling training material for that, as opposed to integrating stuff like Alembic or OSL. Yet you don’t see many people arguing that Blender needs better Minecraft support. Everybody wants to be “professional” and use “professional software”, which is all fine - but then the argument for why supporting professionals is so important can’t just be “that’s where the money is!”. That’s just an unsubstantiated claim.
I wonder how many of these hobbyists donate. If even some people who use Blender for a living (in a way or another) don’t donate, let alone hobbyists (of course, like everything, there are exceptions).
I guess it’s more a matter of if no developer can or want to work with something than if someone is paying or not, since donators can’t chose where the money is going besides to dev fund or gooseberry. I’d love to be able to, at the very least, have a % of my money be invested in something I chose.
And even if we wanted to pay someone outside these projects to implement something inside Blender, there’s a really big chance the patch won’t be accepted.
The truth is though, whoever posted that is definitely not going to get the developer’s attention with that attitude (even if there’s grains of truth within it).
- First off, he sets up a no-win situation for the developers, as in it won’t matter what they do to improve Blender as a software. It will still count as a strike against them because they’re supposedly beyond the point of redemption with no way to fix it.
- Second of all, a good way to make your requests and proposes solutions flatly ignored is to buttress it with comments on how much the developers suck and how deplorable the users are.
As for this thread though, there will inevitably be people who will use this thread as a springboard to launch character attacks on Ton and the core team (it has happened in other threads, but this looks to be especially fertile ground since the whole point is a missive against virtually every aspect related to Blender).
That’s a valid complaint to have, but Blender is still FOSS. you can independently develop it in-house, you can fund external development, you can fork… not saying these things aren’t problematic, they’re just part of that same reality that you have to accept. If there was some obvious way to turn Blender into a product for professionals and make more money that way, someone would’ve done that long ago. It’s not the “management” that is at fault here.
And even if we wanted to pay someone outside these projects to implement something inside Blender, there’s a really big chance the patch won’t be accepted.
There’s also a big chance the developer goes over budget and never delivers. There’s all kinds of risks. Somebody has to carry these risks, normally it would be the company selling you the product, or in Blender’s case it is the BF. If you want things developed “your way”, you have to take that risk yourself. You cannot expect free leverage on decisions, just because you’re a user.
lol, fine – you have many posts pointing out people aren’t donating. Better?
It isn’t an unsubstantiated claim that the money is with professionals. Most, if not all, of the Blender Dev Fund is already from professional users and businesses. Plus it is categorically dumb to create 3d Software and not try to appeal to the majority of 3d Artists anyway. It’s like making oil paint that tries to cater specifically to people who don’t oil paint for a living - what the hell would you do that for? To make Blender more broadly appealing all it has to do is deal with criticism better than always declaring “its just my style!”
Movies, like Gooseberry, can attract anyone to donate, so I’ll concede you that point.
Yeah, I really wonder why this isn’t locked yet. It’s an obvious flame bait with no value.
The two quotes from the OP where both silly. The question asked was obvious fanboyism, the reply full of hatred. Besides, everyone knows the compositor is a bit crappy, export to external apps lacking and Blender far from dominating other apps (why would it). So what?
Oh… absolutely didn’t intend to cause such “flame” as you call it… Personally I saw some valid points although behind his negative emotions…
BTW these are not my words, I found them online
Yes.
It isn’t an unsubstantiated claim that the money is with professionals.
How do you know? There is clearly some money there, but is it really more than the amateurs? Minecraft just sold
for 2 billion, the Foundry sold for 300 million. LEGO’s market cap is higher than that of Autodesk. Apples and Oranges? I’m not so sure…
Show me some evidence that pandering to professionals would be more lucrative than pandering to the hobbyists.
Most, if not all, of the Blender Dev Fund is already from professional users and businesses.
I don’t see that information published anywhere, so how do you know?
Plus it is categorically dumb to create 3d Software and not try to appeal to the majority of 3d Artists anyway. It’s like making oil paint that tries to cater specifically to people who don’t oil paint for a living - what the hell would you do that for?
The majority of 3D artists are almost certainly not professionals, neither are most oil painters. I don’t know the economics of art supplies, but I know that pretty much all of these companies have cheap products for hobbyists (which probably carries the bulk of the business, too).
To make Blender more broadly appealing all it has to do is deal with criticism better than always declaring “its just my style!”
“Broadly appealing” and “appealing to professionals” are two completely different things.
Anyway, I’m not arguing that Blender should pander to amateurs more, I’m just saying that if your argument is ‘Blender needs money!’, maybe “the professionals” aren’t all that good of a target audience. Otherwise, I don’t see how the professional’s interests are more important than everyone else’s. If that’s the case, maybe Blender developers can just keep developing exactly like they are now?
Probably 98% of Blender users are of the hobbyists/amateurs variety. Most use it for creating 2D stills and hope that they will use the rest of the features like animation, physics, etc. eventually. The rest are the loud, complaining, whiny, self-entitled, non donating minority. Contrary to what the whiny minroity thinks, the movie projects are what keep the donation trickling in. Who would be interested in donating for game development projects for instance? Even the whiny ones don’t.
…And with this post you remove any doubts from my mind I had. Selrond I do not think you are that stupid, And I would like to think that you do not believe that the rest of this community is that stupid. Everyone trolls from time to time, it happens. And is there some valid points that was in the OP, Yes. But they are thought fragments devoid of context and presented in such a way as to distance the OP from the drama that would result.
Does the blender community have some significant troll issues, hell yes. And as a people watcher I love to sit down and parse though trolls posts and profiles see what they do and do not have in common. I love to parse though the profiles and posts of the good artists here to see what they have in common. And yes, I will be the first one to tell you its creepy. But damn it is informative to.
Now If you would wish to discuss those topics, Do so one at a time, And include your own thoughts as well. I enjoy intellectual conversation, But I detest a community being used for someones emotional stroking needs.
Well, I currently donate to both Gooseberry and Blender dev fund, even though I complain about not being able to chose where my money goes to, because, well, there’s no other better way I guess.
And I’d donate to development of BGE anytime if it would improve blender real time rendering, PBR, or stuff that 3D game artists care about.
@BeerBaron What LEGO and Minecraft has to do with hobbyists? Do you think indie devs are the same as hobbyists?
After reading some posts here, I’m curious. Do you know an open forum where professionals show their professional work done with those professionals softwares? As amateour/hobbyist, I want to see this work and learn from them, and thus know the limitations of Blender 3D. The only website I know is CGTalk, but to be honest, the average CGTalk gallery does not impress me much more than Blenderartists gallery. So, where the professionals (as the creator of that Blender critique) show their works?
11 second club and there is a quite a few others, My advice is to make a new screen name when you visit. Blender the software and Blender the community are two very different things. And I’ve done some talking on linked in (you would be surprised who would respond to what question, If you ask it concisely and discreetly) And very often the stigma that blender has is more based on the first impressions on the community then as to where the software currently is in its development.
I’m talking about the sponsors listed on the Dev Fund page. Microvellum, BlenderGuru, Kent Trammell, etc.
Yeah. I’m generally happy with development continuing the way it has been. Blender’s popularity in game dev has grown quite a bit.