Why not both?
Since developing in C is more difficult wouldn´t we need even better documentation in order to make it more accessible?
I really don´t know. There are courses for c++ coding in unreal aimed at complete coding beginners. You can buy them on udemy for 10 or so dollars. I went through one of them and it was actually useful and fun.
It was a lot easier than “normal” c++ courses where you learn things by programming shopping lists and similar things.
And regarding the compiling times: Well, we are all used to that because we have render times.
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I don’t know what it is about this board that causes people to completely steer away from the thread’s topic. The other thread I made about how to not copy somehow steered into a discussion about IP laws even though the OP points isn’t dependent on IP.
Here I’ll take some of the blame as well since that post was about my experiences. Here’s the thing though, my experience was only meant to be an example, an icing on the cake. The whole point is, I believe (with quite some confidence), that if we had a blenderguru,CG cookie, or whoever equivalent of Blender coding for addons or source code more people will be able to pick up coding faster and easier.
I really don’t know what your rant is even about. Let’s say all the people who give up on programming do so for the most stupidest reasons there could be. It’s still the case that having more accessible tutorials or at least more of them, would still nonetheless increase the number of people picking up programming.
Imagine if Blender did not have the backing of youtubers making volumes of tutorials as they do now and think about where blender would be if not for them. It’s quite obvious to me that there would be a substantial decrease in the number of users and if anyone complained about a lack of tutorials would you use that same rant against them? Even if what you’re saying is true, one thing that does matter is raw numbers.
Let’s imagine now that if we managed to decrease the total number of people who give up coding, there would be a small number of them willing to do it for free, and if not we would introduce an increase in supply of addon devs which would increase competition. This would be a win to users no matter what.
And I’m honestly skeptical of your claim that there can’t be a beginner-intermediate programming pipeline into blender dev video tutorial series. It might be harder to do then just a general-blender-use tutorial, but I’ve already said that.
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Correct me if I’m wrong, because it’s been a while since I touched UE4 so my memory may be faulty, but aren’t you just writing ‘addons’ for UE4 and the language happens to be C++? Rather than modifying the engine source directly? In that case it would be more akin to the Blender python tutorials.
Also in my defense I don’t think of it as “giving up” programming in my case. I’m just taking an “extended hiatus” since it’s been years since I’ve touched python and the only reason why I want to pick it up again is because of blender. I do believe there are people like me out there, an untapped resource ready to be used.
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“There’s money in doing it” is a good reason. C++ is the scripting language for Unreal, since they have dropped UnrealScript. It’s the only to way program for Unreal so there’s a legion of would-be game developers willing to pay for the privilege of learning that. You’re not learning how to do actual engine development though.
First of all, that’s not a given. It’s possible that 100% of the people that will ever become C/C++ developers for Blender will do it regardless of tutorials existing or not.
Secondly, there’s such a thing as diminishing returns. Maybe if “somebody” spent thousands of extra hours teaching something, then an extra two people won’t give up. So what?
The problem is, who is that “somebody” and why would they make that effort? You’re making a thread saying “somebody” should do something. Well I think “somebody” should go volunteer at the homeless shelter instead. That “somebody” doesn’t exist, so it doesn’t matter either way. You can’t change that. You can only change your own attitude towards learning something. That’s the point of my rant.
I never claimed that. Of course there could be such a thing. But there isn’t. You shouldn’t be waiting around for “somebody” to show up and make it.
Hm, not sure about that. Take a look at other subjects and people’s stories about how they got into them simply by stumbling into them and trying out simple things and falling in love. Even just spamming out volumes of tutorials would help with this since they’d eventually show up youtube’s algorithm.
I don’t think we’ve reached the point of diminishing returns for blender programming tutorials or is even close to it, just my intuition comparing the number of regular tutorials to blender scripting ones. Maybe for regular tutorials but even so there are always great gems in them where I learn something that I’ve completely overlooked even if they’re tutorials aimed at total beginners. Right now there isn’t a Udemy course or anything like that, and such. This area is not even close to saturation.
I mean I don’t disagree here, I’m just making a suggestion like everyone else on this board is doing with the off chance that someone may get the idea to try it out. In theory almost all the complaints on this board can be handled by the people making the suggestion, you can even say the whole Right-Click Select website is completely pointless since you could say that they should just pull up their bigboy pants and learn to trudge through C/C++/Python and implement it themselves.
But that wouldn’t make sense, and I think your comment for this reason was slightly unfair since I’m taking slightly more of an initiative than the people on Right-click Select is by at least showing some interest in doing it myself.
No, Blueprints is the python equivalent in Unreal.
Already earlier linked is the wiki, but I’d like to lift up the very first link from the main page:
https://wiki.blender.org/wiki/Building_Blender
That lays out in great detail how to get Blender built from source. Following these guides you’ll have all the tools you need, and a firm grasp of how to build. The rest of the main wiki page leads you to a wealth of information that should be enough to get going.
Further, the developer community in general is very open IMO, join #blendercoders on freenode.net and you’ll get help from the epicenter of development.
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You’re not just making a suggestion. You’re making a claim of the form “If X was done by Y not equal to me, then magnificent hypothetical outcome Z would occur”.
The magnificent outcome is what distinguishes it from a humble suggestion. It’s not really fair to those humble suggestions, is it? I certainly wouldn’t disagree with someone signaling mere interest in something.
That’s not initiative. You’re not doing it. You just add one more reason on why you’re not doing it, but the end result is the same: You’re not doing it.
If you were doing it, maybe you would be stuck at some particular point now and you would be asking a specific question and developers would be able to help you. But to get to that point, you need to use the resources that are already there, like everyone before you. You need to get rid of the whole mindset that you even need a tutorial. What you really need is self-reliance, otherwise you aren’t going to make it.
Don’t get me started.
Blueprints is what people use in Unreal who would use Python in Blender. It is good enough for plenty of things and very accessible for non developers just like - or even more so - than Python.
C++ is the more complicated way to do things and tutorials for beginners exist. The same could be true for Blender.
I’m making the claim that if there were more tutorials then it would be quite likely that there would be more people picking up programming on the addon side with no loss to Blender as evidenced by the effect regular tutorials have on increasing blender’s popularity.
Whereas you make the claim that it’s too difficult or something that it would take “thousands of hours” with maybe two extra people? Don’t know how you’re even coming up with that and that’s contrary to the current trend of things.
Bizarre, because I’m 100% sure that just posting on Right-click Select is not “doing it” either because if they were doing it then they would be stuck at some particular point now and they would be asking a specific question and developers would be able to help them.
Blueprints is the equivalent of the (non-existing) “Object Nodes” in Blender. In Unreal 4, C++ is both a scripting and engine language. C++ replaces UnrealScript. The whole framework of UE4 is laid out so that you can script with C++, making it less daunting.
Blender isn’t like that, the scripting language is Python, the core systems are implemented in C. There is a C++ RNA API analogue to the Python API, but afaik nothing besides Cycles uses it and it isn’t exposed to external developers.
You were talking about what “a great investment” it would be and that it’s “absolutely necessary”, never mind the fact that there are already video tutorials on how to develop addons on top of all the other resources that already exist regarding addon development.
Of course you can always dump more time into tutorials in the hopes of getting even more people on board. Maybe it’s worth it, maybe it’s not. Realistically though, given all the resources that already exist, why should I believe those last few people are going to be great contributors? Isn’t it more likely they’ll just find another excuse not to keep going?
Correct. The people over there aren’t pretending that they’re right around the corner of “doing it”. They’re making plain requests. That’s what Right-Click-Select is for.
You’re saying you would be “doing it” if only somebody else did something first. That’s not initiative.
This is the fundamental disagreement here and there is no way to find out which side is correct without making the investement.
Yes, as per trend and the proxy evidence presented by regular tutorials
Which I regard as insufficient as evidenced by the fact that there were people here on this board that said they had trouble finding some. Even with regular use blender tutorials are still helpful despite the oversaturated market and still increase popularity of the software. I’m basing all my claims on trends. You could technically teach yourself most of blender with only 2-3 youtube channels yet there are still many more that almost certainly contribute positively and substantially to Blender and people’s skill set. so this claim of substantial lowering of marginal returns seems quite absurd at face value.
Uh so what? I’m pretty sure a great deal of people if not the majority even give up using blender in general, that doesn’t seem to stop people making tutorials. What they do doesn’t concern anyone. Why is this difficult to understand? Blender has only to gain by doing this.
Yes I am making a plain request to have more tutorials and my experience is ultimately secondary. You’re really trying to dodge your way out of trying to argue the main point.
Ultimately having a youtube channel or a site dedicated to addon dev tutorials will be more useful in the long run since anyone can make a feature request just about anywhere.
I’m asking because this would be easier for everyone, would you really rather have people bring up plain feature requests than at least show some interest in contribution?
It doesn´t really matter if they are completely the same. Both languages are usable by people who are not experienced developers while c++ in Unreal is difficult for people who are not. And in Blender it is the same.
Now, with the Unreal c++ tutorials it is relatively easy to get things done in Unreal.
And looking at the video posted above where the guy adds the select invert to latices it seems that there are things that are easy to do in C in Blender as well.
Absolutely, yes.
If you make a request about something you want, you’re being honest. You want something. Maybe nobody cares, but that’s fine.
If you make some claim about how something good would come about for everyone if only your request was granted, I think you’re bullshitting.
You still seem to believe that your mere signaling of maybe doing something under some condition makes your request better. Nothing could be further from the truth. In practical terms, you’re exactly as useless as before, except now you have an excuse for it.
hahaha based on what evidence? do you realize that you are making a claim as well that requires it to be backed up by evidence? I’ve shown you mine. I can’t tell what the future is, but using proxy information is most certainly a valid way to make a case. You’ve made claims of substantial lowering of returns and thousands of hours needed to convert two people or whatever nonsense and you think the Burden of Proof doesn’t rest on you as well? You’re not just a bullshitter you’re also a weasel who applies double standards. More of a weasel because you keep trying to make this about an example I brought up not realizing that I could die the next day and everything I’ve said will still apply.
You’re absolutely abusing linguistic quirks if you think I literally meant every single person ever to use blender. That’s dishonest. You know what I meant.
I’ve never stated that as a factual claim, you should pay more attention when reading.
Fine let me restate it:
If you make some claim about how it would be for the common good if only your request was granted, I think you’re bullshitting.
The point is, now it’s not just you who is making a selfish request. You’re hiding your selfishness.
Let me give a more obvious example: If all of you guys gave me some money, I could create a Blender wealth fund that could give fabulous returns which I could use to hire developers!