sorry another head updates (26.09.06)

i have been working on trying to model a head ive been using the loops ive modeled it as per loops but am stuck now whenever i continue it ends up a mess can anyone help shed light on what i do next to make it into a head pleease?

You misunderstood the tutorial- you trace only the front view of the reference photo, then arrange the same vertices into the side view, not draw them seperately.

ya, he missed a big step

you did great bro! you almost had it… this is what they mean>>>

when you draw on the front view watch your side view, you will see the “point” there as well, now instead of drawing a new point, line up the first one that you made.

in order to do that you need at least 2 split screens on your main 3D view, set one to “number pad key 1” for front view and the second to “number pad key 3” side view.

then import your side and front views to the correct split screen

if you have any questions plz post them here with screen shots and ill try my best to help you.

ah ok thankyou will try that tonight and post new pics

Good luck! I’m also working on a head (my third one so far).

ok thanks guys its starting to take shape a lot better now but of course ive never got to this stage so what do i do now to model a head? and how to i apply this technique to make other faces? just put the edge loops over in gimp you reckon over a picture? thanks for any help

Looking good so far. Compared to the face, the head is pretty easy. I just started modelling myself, but I picked up some tips here and there. The main thing is that you want your loops to continue from the face around the head, so that the overall shape flows organically.

When I modelled a head, I started with a cube and subdivided it a few times as many times as you need to match up the vertices on the forehead and sides of the face. Then I converted it to a sphere (in the Edit Buttons window you can do that with the ‘To Sphere’ button in the Mesh Tools tab) and cut out where the face and neck would go, and after a bit of shaping was able to join it up to the face. You could use a UV sphere too and save yourself a few steps, but I think the cube to sphere method preserves the loops better.

And yeah, to make a different face you just do like you said and adjust the loops to fit your reference photo.

no need to apologize for the head model, it’s a great way to start, imo. Just be sure to stick with it and not give up. There can be a steep learning curve. I’ve been doing this for a year and a half now, I’m still learning modelling and still on the same wip. I started using the same TorQ tutorial. On to your model:
1. There is a slight disruption in the edge flow of your face on the bridge of the nose. In the pic I have attatched, the red line is the edge that needs to be deleted and the green line is the edge that needs to be added. All your verts are in place correctly, you just need to adjust that edge and things will look much better in that area.

2. I added those yellow lines at the top of the face (obviously :)) to kind of give you an idea of how to continue the head. Please don’t follow the actual lines in that image. They are very distorted and the image is from an angle anyway. Sorry about the low quality of the lines, I put a different tip in my tablet pen and haven’t adjusted to it yet.

3. The face you will have after completing the tutorial is a great base mesh that essentially has all of the vertices you will need to rough out just about any human (and even some non-human) face you can imagine. A good modelling technique is to take a mesh that has good edge-loops and get your overall shape while the mesh is still in a relatively simple state, such as the head you are creating. Then add more edge-loops to the areas you want to have more detail in your model. Adding many edge-loops too early will make it very difficult to control your mesh if you need to make large adjustments to the topology. Knowing how many edge-loops are neccessary at any given stage of the modelling proccess I’ve found comes with experience.

4. Remember that you are modelling something organic and very recognizable, i.e. the human head. As such, unless you have taken some drawing classes dealing with proportion, I recommend doing some research online on the proportions of the human head, and the human body if you plan to go that far eventually. Also, read about how to see shape as well. Those two things alone will help you greatly in achieving a convincing model.

5. Keep your edge-flow as smooth as you can (no abrupt, or maybe even slightly abrupt, angles in the edge-loop) if you want your mesh to appear as nicely smooth skin. Another note is that the edge-loops and edge-flow basically set up the musculature of the mesh, as you can see in the animation from TorQ’s tutorial. Keep that in mind when you go to model other things, how you set up your edge-loops is how the mesh will deform when you animate it.

6. One thing I just remembered: Use reference images in the background (like what you did in TorQ’s tute). Personally, I always at least start a model with a reference image. Whether a picture off the internet, or one I have scanned in. This helps me setup my edge-loops in a manner that will flow better later on. And, I usually don’t know where to start without a reference. If you have front, side, and top (even bottom if there is a lot topology there) reference your life will be much easier if the model is complex. On the references: I tried, at first, to put lines on my references, like TorQ did. I found that it is not really neccessary, once you get the hang of the concepts TorQ introduced. If you want to make a model look exact as possible, use references in the background.

Last thing (I promise! :D) that is of some interest, at least to me if no-one else.
Why such a lengthy reply (from me) to this wip and not even touch others that might appear similar in nature? Frankly, it seems like you are actually trying to learn how to model, not just trying to make something your own way. You seem to have a good attitude about advice. Your nick is “maskedsow”, how cool is that? :wink: <–(If you are not from USA, that means it’s pretty cool)
You’ve chosen to go with a slower start to learn to do things the right way, not the easy way (i.e. not trying to extrude the heck out of a cube or sphere into some abheration then posting and asking, “any C&C?”). It’s going to take “longer” at the beginning to get a model completed, but as you gain experience, things will go much quicker and you will be able to actually model some really cool stuff in the long run with what you are learning now. Oh, you’ll be doing it on purpose, in control, not just randomly.
So, I say this to encourage you to keep going, know that it could take awhile. If you are willing to invest the time we at BlenderArtists will be around to help you. You’re off to a good start.

– Image for points 1 and 2 is attatched below:

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thank you for your kind words i wannt to learn how to model rather then be told how to make something that i need that way i dont need to ask in future the tuts ive followed before i have learned lots from and have vastly improved thanks to this great society of people whom are a great help here is the face without the edge plus a view of the bottom of the face which i think is not quite right will work on rest of head after posting this and keep you updated thanks again for the help

another update with forehead

I think I might have confused you a bit. :frowning: When I said

Please don’t follow the actual lines in that image
what I meant was for you to not follow the lines using the image as the background reference, in other don’t follow the lines in exact shape. Sorry about that.
The image I posted earlier is, in fact, pretty much what your mesh should look like for the edge-loops continuing around the head. The skin above the eye continues straight up and over the head, not off at 45 degree angles, right? So should your edge-loops. Check this out to see what I mean. The face in that image was started with the same TorQ face tutorial.
See how the edge loops continue? The part around the ears in that image is messed up, I had to fix it at a later time.
I might have a better example. I just cooked up an image that should help you visualize the importance of good edge loops:

Image 1. The cat with “good” edge loop overlay.

Image 2. “Good” edge-loop “render”, i.e. the wire frame of the cat.

Image 3. “Bad” edge-loop "render. What the heck is that thing??

I did this fairly quick so I didn’t take the time to make the “good” edge-loops all that great, But I think you should get the point.
I hope by seeing this you will be able to better understand the importance of edge loops and that edge loops need to flow with the topology of the object. Even if you are able to get something to look feasable without the edge-loops, your going to run into problems. Also, which one of those do you think is going to deform better once you start to rig and pose it?
Hope this helps!

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Sorry for posting again, but I wanted this a bit seperate from the last post.
Consider this kind of mini test to see if you are getting the concept I’m trying to convey. :slight_smile:
The only thing this test will really prove is whether I can teach this edge-loop thing or not, so please don’t feel frustrated if you aren’t getting it. :slight_smile: Also, I’m only going to ask you about the topology and edge-loops, specifically how it flows.
Now, there is a problem with the corner of the mouth and underneath of the chin.

At the corner of the mouth: First, you may need to add a vertice on the inside of the corner of the mouth. I have attached an image that shows what I mean. Something I didn’t mention before is that it is important for the areas of the mesh that will be deformed in posing or animation to be made out of quad (four sided) polygons. The subsurf calculations in blender do not derform triangle polygons very well.
Whatever the case, make sure the polygon in the corner of the mouth is a quad.
–> Now the test :): Based on what I have shown you in my previous post, what else needs to happen at the corner of the mouth.

Under the chin:
Everything you need fo rthe chin to be correct (at this stage) is there. So, what’s wrong with the chin?

Note: The image below is an approximation of the polygon in question at it’s current state. This is not an indication of the correct shape of the polygon

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so my edge loops were not flowing plus faces were flippedthats why the chin was wrong and the mouth needed rearanging so it flowed better and hads quads
http://img426.imageshack.us/img426/254/facesinvertededgeloopsnotsmoothmr8.jpg
http://img426.imageshack.us/img426/5153/nowloopsareflowingandfacesarerightwayaroundbt7.jpg

could you please explain a bit more about continuing the loops i understand the forehead and the side its just down to the chin im not sure where i am supposed to loop and its starting to fold out instead of inward any help would be most nice thank you

I’m not sure I’m quite following you on the “what goes out” and “what goes in” part…
So, Here’s a couple images that should help with where you are stuck for continueing the head.
Again, note that the area around the ear is really messed up.
Also note how the edges running vertically above the eye continue around the back of the head. The edges on the brow running horizontally run down the side of the face.

I really need to go back and fix this model. I did it when I was first learning all this. Everything on it is good except the area around the ear.

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hey i bought a head maniquin today so that i could draw the loops on and help me understand them and visualise it better i would recomend it to anyone there ius nothing like feeling those loops to get a understanding of how and why they are there i havent applied them to my 3d model yet i want to check if i am on the right track these are maniquin photos and are not a 3d render so dont fall over in shock lol by the way i am in australia there doesnt seem to be any blender communities out here sadly so the only way i can learn is off you guys thanks a lot for all your help

Wow, it looks like you’re really committed to getting this right, maskedsow. That’s very impressive to see, and I think that with your attitude you’ll be able to just keep working at it until you can do some amazing modelling. And Soter, kudos for taking the time to really walk him through the rough spots with these early stages. :slight_smile:

ok me thinks me have might have gone a little wrong im a bit stuck any tips please? was having great difficult doing the back of head and chin i am a bit consfused because the loops in the origanal drawing cross over each other but when i design it tro that it doesnt work i am modelling half first might that be why its funny in the middle? please help thank you in advance i apreciate your time

Dude you make my day! nice modeling I came from far too and I’m still learning.