subdivision surface on gloves...

edit delted

Normals are pointing the wrong way. Press N in 3d view and scroll down the panel until you see “Normals” check the two icons the blue lines on your polys/verts show you which way the Normals are facing. Under “mesh” in edit mode (bottom left of 3d view) you will see in the menu “Normals” Here is where you can flip them etc. For your mesh select everything and recalculate outside.

The biggest issue of all the the topology of the gloves. Simply put this refers to how you have built your mesh using polys. Their arrangement, edge flow etc. You have also got edges and polys inside the mesh.

This tut will show you what I mean about edge flow/topo etc. It is maya but it doesn’t matter on the software just that you understand what is ok and what is not. I have looked at other parts and you have some of the same issues going on. It does need a complete rebuild, sorry about that. On the good side its fairly cute and with a bit of practice you will make this sort of model very fast in the future so it isn’t all bad. Just try and keep the topology cleaner.

BTW I wasn’t sure which one you were building since there were two. The black (base) one was the one with the biggest problems. The other one could be alot cleaner though, and will not smooth so well if you try it. I suspect that is the one you were using for reference. Its sometimes better if you are using models for reference to find ones that are made with quads. Its a bit easier to see what other people have done. The “Tris to quad” function doesn’t work with it either. “Tris to Quad” is found under “Mesh” menu - “Faces”. It basically turns triangles into quads and so makes the mesh topology easier to examine.

Try to find some tutorials to follow. A good few supporting sites listed under commumity on the site.

Good luck

deleted 10char

Hi again. You have accidentally filled in faces between vertices that should not form a face. This is why the hat looks that way around the middle. The sides of the hat is not very clean topology. It will look a bit horrid in the corners. The topology around the mouth is very untidy and will not smooth. You should have face loops here.…r-2-5-alpha-0/

The above link shows how to box model a little green man. Its a cartoon like figure so you should learn a better work flow from it. (work flow = how you go about creating a model, methods etc.). This is probably one of the better sites to learn from if you are new as they have a lot of tuts. Also this is one of many tuts in a series. If you search for others that were made it shows sculpting, animating and other things that will help you for the future.

I probably didn’t make too much of a point of it in my first post, but when you model a figure avoid using triangles. The model you have used was not made with triangles it was made out of quads. It is now triangles (possibly because it was in 3ds file format or taken from max software in 3ds originally). Generally speaking triangles on a figure should be cut out completely. Only in certain cases is it acceptable to use them as they are very bad for smoothing. Perhaps if you are working with spheres you may have them, or if its an architectural structure you may have them. In these cases it will look ok.

The following is not the best way to model a baseball cap but its ok and is fairly quick and easy to write down for you.

Start a new scene and delete the default cube (practice first so new scene). Press “Numpad 5” (easy to work in this type of view) Press “Shift A” and from menu under “mesh” add a “UVsphere” “tab” to get into edit mode. “A” to deselect everything. Press Numpad 1 to go into front view. “B” to box select and select the bottom half of the sphere. “X” and delete all the selected vertices. You should now have half a sphere. Pressing “A” deselects what you have selected and selects everything if you press it again. Press “A” to select everything. Press “S” then “Z” and move your mouse. This will scale across the Z axis. Do it just a little bit.

You will notice the half sphere has edge/face loops. The topology is flowing around the sphere (you have rings going around). You want to select the bottom ring. You can do this by holding ALT and clicking on the bottom ring. With the bottom ring selected press “E” then press “Return” (or mouse click right after). Do not move your mouse when you do this. You have just extruded the bottom ring. You cannot see it as you have not moved the extruded ring yet but it is selected. Press “G” the “Z”. Move the mouse to move this ring (edge loop) down. NB: if this part goes wrong press CTRL Z (again if needed) to undo.

As well as extruding edge loops you can also inset them. Between the (new) bottom edge loop and the one above hover the mouse and press CTRL R. Then mouse click and move it down with the mouse. You have just inserted a new edge loop. You want this loop near to the one at the bottom, press mouse button again to confirm. OPTIONAL – you can repeat this step to add another edge loop just above the one you have just inserted

Press numpad 3 (to go into side view) Press “A” to deselect everything. Press “B” to box select. You want to box select the front half of the sphere, bottom two edge loops only. (Maybe not as far as the middle. (This is the area you want your peak coming from if that helps) With this area selected press “E” then “Return” (Like before). Press “G” then “Y” to move along the Y axis (Or use green arrow widget). You now have extruded peak of the cap. Insert another edge loop between the peak and the head bit. (Those long polys that you have just pulled out from the above. Put the new edge loop just there). CRTL R is the key, left click and move this edge loop towards the head bit of the cap. In fact right near it. Two edge loops near to each other form a crease. You are done.

Notice the peak has thickness (double sided) This is right because if you apply a texture you would only see one side by default, plus it looks better. You can also give the head bit the appearance of thickness by selecting the bottom edge loop of the head bit (Not peak, ALT mouse click to select). With it selected press “E” then “Return” (Like before). Now press “S” to scale” move mouse to move it in a little and mouse click to confirm its position. Then press “E” then “Return” and the newly extruded edge loop. Then move it up a little by pressing “G” the “Z”. Your cap is better.

You should have a basic shape for a baseball cap. You can experiment with sculpt mode to detail your cap. or in edit mode Press “O” that’s the letter O BTW. You can then select a vertices and move it. It will partially move others with it. Mouse wheel makes the circle bigger or smaller (experiment to see what this does). It is useful for nudging a simple object into a better shape.

Now press “TAB” to enter object mode and set smooth (left panel), also add a sub-surf and you will notice you have a smooth cap, no problems.

NB: If you don’t understand how to use any of the shortcut keys above just try them and do some more tutorials, it will make more sense. If you know the above it would take about 30 seconds to complete. The top of the sphere does have triangles but acceptable in this simple example. However if you selected the top edge loop (ALT mouse click) and press CTRL E then edge slide from menu to move it nearer the middle and mouse click to confirm new position. You can then delete the top vertice to remove the triangles. You could then model a simple button to fit on top of the hole if you wanted.

Just remember avoid triangles (pretty much always) and good edge flow = better smoothing. There is a lot more to it than that but a good starting point. Also follow tuts so you learn better work flows. I’ve just given you a simple one above. You should not model objects the way that you have done so. A good aspect of what you did is that you broke different parts down into separate objects, e.g. the hat, clothing, figure etc. You could design more clothing and dress it differently this way.

edit: cleanup on these old posts

i have a question

since I want to give him bones, how would this work? Like every part of the body except the hat and head has a subdivision surface modifier of two.

Now if I combine them, I have the option to mess up his face but keep his body pretty or everything just looking meh.

If I hit apply before the combine, it will look right, but then for adding bones I think it would be awkward working with like a million vertices.

How would you get around this?

The tutorial I posted a link to is a series. There is another that shows you how to create an armature (bones) and attach it to a model. I believe that in this series the model is made out of parts like your one so follow that and it will show you how to do it. In repects to joining the meshes then you could do this also. Before you do take a backup of your scene. Then apply the modifiers. (Don’t over do the sub surf, maybe just level 1 or 2, won’t look any better if you have loads anyway). Your model is fairly low poly so you won’t have millions of polys. It will be ok. You really show look at some modelling tutorials though. A cleaner mesh is far easier to animate. For example you may want the mouth to move for talking etc. BTW The gloves and top seem to take a better shape in the images you posted

Hmm you think it would be okay? I am not sure… it feels a bit wrong, or so I think

here is everything disconnected

Then with everything connected

see how everything has a lot of vertices because on the 2nd file because I hit apply with the subdivision surface modifier? Wouldn’t that cause problems for rigging?

His mouth should be fine I think, it can be grabbed an all.

I cleaned up the clothing for animating since the original versions I think. I don’t think it should be too bad for animating should it?

Or do you think I should just remake the head properly+hat so that they work with subdivision surface modifiers?

Remake whatever breaks and is made out of random triangles which are just joined without any real consideration. But if you don’t want to and just want to try and animate it then move on. Taking into account this is your first model its really only a learning experience anyway. The next ones you make will get better.

People rig and skin characters with higher poly counts than what you are doing. You could delete the modifiers and add them after you have rigged them if you wanted. You don’t actually have to apply them first.

Could not view the images you posted

1 more question, if I do subdivision surface and use materials they kind of bleed into other parts of the object.

Is the only way around this to apply the subdivision surface first?

Also can’t seem to get his whiskers right when I use subdivision surface, how would you do it? Like if I just start grabbing points and pulling them off, it doesn’t work right lol.

but to my question before
are you sure would be poseable with this many verts?
Let me show you:


If your model is nicely made then you should not get any issues with applying the sub surf before or after. If things go wrong with the sub surf then it is a good indication that something is wrong with your mesh, or the normals are facing the wrong way.

When it comes to the ringing part then it really doesn’t matter whether you apply them or not. Or even whether you join the meshes or not. All can be undone later after you have rigged the model. However the exception to this is applying the sub surf. You cannot undo this later. You can however take a backup and then import this into your rigged scene and apply the rig to that. In respects to joining the model After you have rigged the model you could select a vertices on a part, for example the glove. Them press CTRL L to select all the glove only and press P then select “By Selection” from the menu. This will separate the glove into another object but the rig will remain in place. Its difficult to advise you whether or not you should join the parts or apply the sub surf as there is no right or wrong method. You essentially just need to do what ever you are happy with. So definitely a no to your question, modifiers do not need to be applied first.

BTW models are poseable with extra verts. The rigging is still simple. The difficulty people have with making a skelton is not making the bones. It is the bones weighting/ skinning. Weight painting is very demanding in terms of performance which is why some people may prefer to rig a low poly model. A higher poly count would look better but more care would be needed in the skinning part. However your model will be simpler to skin, all you will aim for is a smooth transformation and automatic weights with minor correction is probably all you will need to do so don’t worry about that part.

In regards to the whiskers. On the reference model you have been using the maker extruded an edge from a solid mesh (head). This isn’t going to look good at all to be honest. Whereas I can’t see how you have now done yours I suspect you have something similar. Essentially you have a head and part of that head is the mouth part which has a separate material white. Perhaps if you take three polygons down the side of the mouth. Select each separately and E to extrude. Pull them out a bit then press S to scale them right down, Then insert an additional edge loop between the extruded end of the whisker and the face and move it near to the face. This will smooth out a little better but will need a sub surf to help, will look fine from the front though. Alternatively you could create them separately (as separate objects). Alternately a better way may be to create the head and face. Then the white mouth could be created separately over the face. From looking at the shape of the model this may work well. And you would not have to worry about how to connect the whiskers to the face. I suppose it depends on what look you are going for. You could even not have them at all and redesign the face a bit. Then add separate planes and a whisker texture map with an alpha map for transparency to make them look like real whiskers. However transparent textures and even particles is perhaps for another day. The whiskers is something which you have many options for depending on how you want your model to look. If it is just about helping it smooth out better the first few methods may suit you. Remember two edge loops close together creates a crease or sharper edge. (End of whisker if needed).

If I was to do it I would not create the face like that at all. Search “cartoon cat 3d models” on google. Look at images. You will see they are rarely made the way you are trying to copy. The whiskers are particles or transparent textures or similar look etc. This would be my preferred choice.

The issue with materials (bleeding) I can’t be sure about unless you post a picture. If you only see a problem in edit mode but in object mode it looks ok then don’t worry about it, there isn’t a problem. If you are experiencing poke through. e.g. the body is poking through the jacket then you need to move that part of the jacket a bit further from the surface of the body. If there is cracking then its the mesh. Check it for errors.

The recurring theme in your posts tend to be clean topology/geometry. If you have a clean mesh then much less problems. BTW the glove looks improved. Also the arm can be attached to the body if you like but that’s up to you.

thanks for the post. I will probably keep the whiskers the way they are for now, maybe change them later. Will check cartoon cat 3d models

however, when I tried just automatic weighting(I realize I didn’t add all the body parts, it like didn’t grab correclty.

I mean I realize the head is most likely problamatic, but even his feet didn’t get picked up correctly.
I’ll try giving bones again from the beggining.

Each bone has influence over a part of the mesh. For example the only influence the upper arm bone should have is over the upper arm. In your case it has influence over the hoodie etc. Usually you can correct this fairly easy by rotating the arm (or any problem bone). Then enter weight paint mode. Then change the weighting (In settings to Zero) and strength of brush to 100. (i.e. Remove all weight paint/influence). Then the parts that a very messy (the bits that should not be affected) You just start to click (paint) on them only to make it look nice. However you seem to have a lot of thickness (parts/vertices) underneath the overall surface. So this can work but you may be better trying something else. Skinning using vertex groups.

This tutorial shows you how to do it. Remember to uncheck the little icon at the bottom row of the 3d view. It is next (right) to the vertex, edge, face select icons. When you hover the mouse over it says limit selection to visible. This means when to press C and paint select vertices to make vertex groups. You also select the vertices inside the mesh which is what you want.

I am just a little bit confused

So for some reason whenever I make the skeloten in his feet it seems to grab the other foot as well as a few other body parts.

I remedied the other body parts by removing the vertex group for both of his feet.

Then I selected one foot in vertex mode and assigned it with the correct foot selected in weight paint.

However, it still sort of grabs the other foot for some reason :?

Though with weight painting I am finally getting the structure to look reasonable. Before that, it was like someone threw his skeleton in a blender

EDIT: NM got it, must have not hit apply or something.
Working on it atm
thx for that tutorial link
i don’t know how i keep not finding those good ones you link to.

I do have one problem, sometimes when I right click a bone in wet paint mode it takes me into object mode instead of selecting that bone :?


Select the armature, enter pose mode for the armature, then shift-select the mesh, then enter weight paint mode, maybe?

On click the link to “community” there are currently other links now. click the link to “user community” most of the sites I have pointed you too are listed there. Other ways are to google search or search youtube etc. However you will get better at these when you learn a bit more. It helps to search the correct terms etc.

On the right hand panel next to 3d view. You have all those icons for modifiers, material etc. There is one that says “data”. If you are in weight paint mode you can click on that. Then scroll down and you will find you bones listed under “vertex groups”. Select your bones there when weight painting as its quicker.

You know, I think more people ought to go through this thread. Jiggly’s asked a lot of questions beginning modellers have, whilst Oranos went about to provide some really well-thought out replies. I won’t pretend to have gone and read through everything - since I haven’t the time or drive at the moment - but I think it’s a good start to getting around some of the specific problems one can face and well worth reading.

yeah he has helped out so much
here is the model like from a few days ago, it’s been improved, more details and stuff. Fixed the hat a bit up, and i finally put the eyes in(not in this picture)
much better than the original imo, but there are still a few things wrong which have been mostly fixed now(not in this picture)

Rigging atm, it’s taking like all of my spare time, the automatic weights decided to like glue my whole model together at random parts.
So I have to make all of them myself with vertex groups… taking longer than I’d like.

Is there a shortcut to delete vertices from wrong body parts without redoing the vertex groups? Because if you do that then you lose the strength around the area you want.

Like on his finger it grabs random partsw of his belt area, and I can’t just go in vertex paint because it includes inside vertices.
So the way I go around this is by redoing the vertex groups, but it’s quite slow because when I select the vertices I want the strength will be at 1 only, and I will lose the old amount of vertex paint around the area I want. So is there just a way to deselect vertices completely but without changing the area you want?

EDIT: grr for some reason when I am painting it paints back when i have another item selected.

What I mean is, on his shoulder I unpainted all these wrong vertices.
Then I select his arm bone and unpaint those same wrong vertices.

Then i go back to his shoulder and they are all painted red again
what gives :?

EDIT: Oh that’s because parts have to be set to something and it was just putting them to one of the other. I had to assign them to the right vertex group then it’s ok.

When you select vertices and you click assign (weighting included) this assigns them to a vertex groups as you know. Notice in the same part there are other functions. You can select a vertex group from the menu and press “select”. This shows you what is in the group. You can also select vertices and click “remove”. This removes them from the vertex group. You can combine these to remove vertices quickly. e.g. select a group, press C for paint select and press down middle mouse button to deselect the ones you want to keep and then click remove on the ones left. (middle mouse is opposite to mouse clicking for paint select and box selection, C and B, Its basically deselect). If you entirely remove them and would like to assign them again with less weight just assign again and change weight. They will still be selected so it quick and is just a case of clicking on the right bits.

Skinning characters can take some time, this is normal. The weight painting isn’t the strongest point in blender either so you just need to practice practice with this one. However it is suitable for the type of model you are making. Also if you had a thinner underneath character then the auto method would have worked fine. But its just how you have made it. It will work out in the end though.

I think you have worked the above out based on what you have said at the bottom, but its there just in case

I notice you are beginning to put a scene together. This I think you will enjoy as you will begin to see your character come to life. Good luck

BTW Zaeche thanks

Haha, you’re welcome. I do not think I am at the level yet that I can help anyone as confidently, so this helps me a lot too.

Happy blending.

For shape keys is there any way to mirror it over to the other side? Probably should have done that before apply the mirror modifier.

I would just delete half of him and mirror him again, but that would screw up the weigh painting.

I am pretty sure there isn’t a way but it’s not the end of the world.