Terrorism and war: To not clog the madrid thread.

I figured there probably is an interest in terrorism and war since the madrid-bombing, and since someone requested not to fill the other thread with such content, I decided to strart another thread.
(If you think this thread should have another title, say so)

/A swede proud of living in a non-aligned country. [!]

So?

Actually, the way I read it in that thread, it wasn’t so much about clogging as it was about spoiling the warm, fuzzy feeling of sentimental compassion. I don’t rember the same emotions being vaunted when Turkey suffered the same fate, nor Cassablanca.

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I have no words to say how much that is true.

Or Israel. So used to it that no one cares.

LOL isreal desirves it (opps did i say that)

its a part of war, i don’t buy into the “oh we are being terrorised” argument, they are doing just as much terrorising, only they use helicopter gunships rather than sticks and stones. both palistinians and isrelis are at war, one is just more desperate about how they fight thats all

Alltaken

LOL another brainwashed goyim (oops did I say that) :wink:

[quote=“Alltaken”]

LOL isreal desirves it (opps did i say that)

its a part of war, i don’t buy into the “oh we are being terrorised” argument, they are doing just as much terrorising, only they use helicopter gunships rather than sticks and stones. both palistinians and isrelis are at war, one is just more desperate about how they fight thats all

Alltaken[/quote]

naughty NZ!, naughty NZ!
Stics and stones? not likely - try hiden explosive divces - like the one foun in a 12 years old kid who didn’t even knew that, or like the one that was suposed to be expolded near a Brom tank in Ashdod port (that could easly cause the death of 30,000 peoples) but instead exploded too early killing 10 people instead.
Alltaken you allready know I’m agints this war and in favour of giving palestinians their own country - I just wanted to show the other side of the coin - so don’t bother arguing with me.

Agree with @ner!
All palestinian terrorist DIE!
why are that terrorists allways moslims? I can’t take an other conclusion than to say the islam is a crazy and dangerous religion… Maybe someone can explain why that guys blow up theirselves and believe they go to heaven?
Israel + Jewish pwnz, they deliver the best scientists of the world!

First mistake… I don’t think @ner meant it that way or he is even thinking the same way you seem to be thinking right now…

All palestinian terrorist DIE!

Second mistake… I don’t think this is the proper way to deal with this problem… Go down there and kill all “Palestinian terrorists” and you’ll give “birth”, to thousands of other nationality terrorists, who will come and try to take revenge for what you’ve done to their “brothers”… The cycle of blood will never end… Not this way at least… U.S.A. flattened Afganishtan and Iraq and yet these guys are keep bombing our cities… That is what I was trying to say all this time… You can’t simply respond to violence with violence and expect that these people will learn…

why are that terrorists allways moslims? I can’t take an other conclusion than to say the islam is a crazy and dangerous religion…

Third mistake… Not all terrorists are muslims… The guys who are behind E.T.A. or I.R.A. etc. etc. (for example) aren’t… Above all, not all muslims are terrorists. Islam is not a religion of terrorists… The problem is not with the muslims… The problem is with those fanatic funtamendalists like Mr “Bean” Ladin for example…

Maybe someone can explain why that guys blow up theirselves and believe they go to heaven?

Because they are idiots… Or it could be, that their lives in this “world”, are so screwd up (one way or another…), so they can only hope for a better “living” in the “other” one…

Israel + Jewish pwnz, they deliver the best scientists of the world!

Not that this statement reflects reality (science is something universal… It doesn’t have a “nationality” and there certainly are lots of very brilliant and talented scientists of other nationalities as well…), but in any case, it is ironic that some of them are using the same Algebra and Astronomy, that was invented by the muslims a few hundreds of years ago…

I’m in no way trying to pick up a fight here with you… I’m just trying to show to you, the opposite side of the “coin”, just like @ner tried to do with alltaken… Just think a little bit about what I’m saying here… Maybe the truth lies somewhere, between my words and your’s…

C.U. around…

actually i am on neither palistinians or isrealis side.

he issue i face is that the isrealis get the “good publicity”

calling them terrorists, while calling isreali soldiers freedom fighters etc…

i am trying to make the point that they are both in the wrong, and that its an EQUAL war. there is not one side, but two sides, neither of which will stand down.

basicly the world opinion is that all arabs are dirty and nasty, i am trying to offer the view that perhaps they are in the same situation that the westurn world is. i noticed the thread was leaning to the right, so i swing it back to the wrong to counter LOL.

Skontar is correct, and @ner is correct. Cyanid you are way wrong.

my coments were serious, although they were exagerated for effect.

Alltaken

Well timonides that’s a heavy reply.
I think I expressed a ‘bit’ to black-white.
It’s true that not all muslims are terrorists. But I still think Islam is a ‘religion of violence’ more than for example Bhudism or Katholism.

When I said: All terrorists die, I did not mention: Kill all terrorists^^.
Actually that statement about the scientists was some kind of bullshit.

Over all I feel like I have to defend Israel. With my mind I know you are right timonides, but I have some undefiened sympathy (?) for israel. Maybe it is because a good friend of mine is jewish.

I know I drove over in my last post, my appolgizes.

There is one thing we all agree… Terrorism should be banned.

cYa

You certainly need not to apologize… :smiley:

If there’s something that I have learned about human nature, is that when it comes to things, or people or countries or places, or whatever, that we like, it is really hard to be objective…

I am no exception to that rule…

Sometimes I get extremely biased…

I am no better than anyone else here…

My above opinions, may even be totally wrong and your’s right…

The thing is that if people could solve their differencies and “approach” each other the same way we did here, there would be no wars, no terrorists, no suffering…

But unfortunately, that’s a Utopia…

C.U. around buddy… :wink:

cyanid, havea good talk to @ner here.

he will shed some light on the isreal situation (as he lives there now)

i feel that many people think “muslims are bad” because muslims today are last generations soviets, or charle. so far throughout history the USoA has always had an evil bad enemy. this decade the popular word happens to be Muslim terrorists.

this is why i don’t like it, because for once can there not be an exagerated enemy.

as for islam being a violent religion, i point you to a thing called the christian faith, or even better still the faih of this “pure force” which we call democracy.

the name of god (the christian god) and the name of “freedom, democracy” have launched more wars on anyone else than the others have.

seriously its not a joke, the reason why we think that christianity is good is because the “good guys always win” and so far christianity has been delivering a pounding.

did you know that america had concentration camps in World war II that were equal to those of the germans, do you know that the US has concentration camps now, (guantanimo bay etc…)

the muslim religion is not evil, people that kill are evil. wether christian, muslim, hindu…whatever you always see yourself as the good guy.

have you ever looked in the mirror and thought “perhaps i am the bad guy?” i think not, and why should someone else?

its only in recent history that 7 year olds have not needed to work 20 hours a day or more in factorys. (and this is in europe and america). it was within the last century that this kinda stuff happened, so i don’t understand what right anyone has of saying someone else is barbaric when in reality its a “been there, done that myself” type situation.

Alltaken

Well I never said the Islam is bad, I said I don’t understand it, and I said that it is more a religion of violence.

Of course I realize each religion and each way of reign has it’s darkside. Remember the big slaughters made in the name of God.
I know I will allways see myself, my country as the good side, I can’t call me the bad side. And maybe I am totally wrong.

I have thought a while about your post, but I really can’t imagine to call myself, or my country as a bad side. Maybe I am just as brainwashed as that suicide terrorists are. Who will say.

And Alltaken I don’t know what country/race/religion you are from, but don’t you know that? Are you really neutral in the middle-east conflict?
I cannot imagine that, but i think that is in my personnality.

Cya

Anti-Semites. That’s all the Palestinians are. They teach -and quite thoroughly I might add- that Jews are evil and should be killed at all costs. Including strapping bombs to 12-years children, without their knowledge.

Why are the Palestinians “allowed” (by an increasingly hypocritical, arrogant, elitist, bigoted, anti-American totalitarian and socialist Europe, of which several nations seem to think stuff isn’t “international” without their .02 euros) to engage in a clearly racist war, and the US can’t defend it’s self without being labeled as an Imperialistic, warmongering nation? Even when the outcome isn’t the extermination of another race, instead it’s the freeing a nation.

I’m sick and tired of the hypocrisy.

Get over yourselves.

PS: Hamas is a big part of the “cycle of violence”. They blow up innocent men, women, and children, and then Israel is like, “Hey, don’t do that.” And thus the cycle of violence continues.

i can’t say my country is the bad guy eitther. its perfectly natural to feel that “you are the good guy” its the only way people sleep at night.

the difference is not wether you think you are good or not, its the next step in understanding the other side is in the same situation as you are.

as soon as the muslim world and the christian world can think about it and sit down and think, Hmmmmm maybe nobody is really wanting to die here, and maybe we are both the good guys. then things can start happening.

there is a difference between thinking “i am good” and thinking "they are evil.

and there is another more scary thing which is the thought of, “i am good, therefore they must be evil”

And Alltaken I don’t know what country/race/religion you are from, but don’t you know that? Are you really neutral in the middle-east conflict?
I cannot imagine that, but i think that is in my personnality.

I am a New Zealander of “european” decent. so i’m a “white guy” LOL

Isrealis vs Palistinians -
yes i am neutral on it. i seriously think both sides should STFU and work with it. however with this said i do feel more sorry for the palistinians than the isrealis due to the fact that one is rich the other is poor. but that does not mean i would suport them winning or suport any terrorist schemes they have, ebcause as soon as they start winning then its the isrealis that i would feel sorry for.

the only sollution that is acceptable, is the creation of a palistinian state, and the standing down of arms on both sides. i see no other alternative for peace.

America vs Iraq-

i am absolutly apposed to the US being in Iraq or even playing a role in its reconstruction. this is because A) i am left wing and george bush’s war is right wing, B) what right did the US have in choosing/dictating another nations own battle (i mean the US had its own opertunity at freedom from england, and had a civil war, why do other countrys not get this right)

America vs afganistan/bin laden/taliban-

well considering before 9/11 happened i was writing an essay on how evil the taliban were, i was not so much bothered about this, although i think the use of US force was excessive in the fact that they killed numerous civilians, including many cases of killing entire familys of women and children. also i was not happy about the US training up more warlords to help them (do they not realise thats how they got bin laden in the first place)

i think afganistan had some weight behind it (e.g. good reason to go to war)

America vs Saddam

well i think saddam was a nasty guy, i think he should have gone, but do you really need to attack an entire country to do it, and was it the US’s duty to do this. (the EU, and UN were not in suport)

don’t get me wrong i am not anti american, i am however seriously anti Bush, he is the opposite of everything that i believe in, he would say one thing and i would say the exact counter. this is my tension.

i didn’t like bill much either, but in hindsight he was a lot better than bush IMO.

as for me being truly neutral in the middle east, well who can be truly neutral in anything, my view is nothing better than anyone elses.
my view is based on my left wing values, and my position in the world as well as the information i recieve on BBC world news, i am at just as much mercy of being brainwashed as anyone.

i personally don’t agree in conflict at all, so any war in the Middle east will not get my suport, but then again i often feel sympathy for the underdogs in many situations, without suporting their cause BTW. if palistinians want to destroy isreal then i absolutly disagree, if they want their own state then thats fine, if isreals want to destroy palistinians then i disagree, if they want to live happily with palistinians then they are going about it the wrong way.

Alltaken

WTF? There weren’t trainloads of “walking dead” Japanese going into American concentration camps. They came out alive. How could you call that equal? Totally different situation, still wrong, but way different.

About the Iraq War… I was totally opposed to it until I was recently forwarded a little information from one of my friends that is working as one of the “guards” over there. Some top Russian generals had a visit when war was imminent (but no bombs has fallen yet), and initiated a soviet-era plan that they used to hide evidence of Russian involvement. Now we’re digging up Mig fighter jets in the desert that have never been seen in the west, that was sold to Iraq illegally by France and Russia (French technology is used in the jets). I have pictures, but I shouldn’t have recieved them in the first place and I think it was illegal to send them to me. Bottom line, the WMD’s that weren’t found are probably there, buried in the desert where no one can find them.

The Iraqi people had no chance fighting that war by themselves as we did against Britain… besides, if you learn a lot about how the revolutionary war went on you’d know that we wouldn’t have won it without the French and the extremely flawed battle system the Brits used. That was a “dirty fight” by the methods of the day, and we wouldn’t have won it any other way. Again, totally different situation.

Should we be there? I think the majority of Iraqis didn’t like Saddam. I don’t think they would have been able to fight him themselves (they tried after the Gulf War and failed). I think the countries that were opposed were avoiding the inevitable. Eventually the countries with warlike regimes that disregard the rest of the world and bully other countries (Iran, North Korea, and eventually the USA) will all fall. It’s history repeating itself with more advanced weapons.

Some might read this as racist statement in all it’s generalization.
(Just replace Europe by Negros, Jews or any other population and it is clearly racistic.)

… instead it’s the freeing a nation.

I’m sick and tired of the hypocrisy.

ditto

BTW, you forgott to mention that everybody has the right and the obligation to denfend his home and his family.
And that’s probably why kids have to learn to use the guns as early as possible.

The aim of the palestinian people is to eradicate all Jews, this is not about getting a piece of land which they sold initially or lost in a war they started. Their bombings happen in all areas of Israel, which means either I am right or they are stupid.

If there would be a palestinian state from tomorrow on, what would happen? Peace? They won’t stop unless there is no more Israel. Peace conversations are regularly interrupted by bus bombings. They don’t want peace.

Alltaken, Israel deserves it? Then why doesn’t Spain deserve it? Why don’t the US deserve 9/11?

I agree on Ditto’s statement about Europe. Increasingly hypocritical, arrogant, elitist, bigoted, anti-American totalitarian and socialist.