The aggressive nature of the forums: any way of getting rid of it?

I still believe there are users here that exist solely to argue their point of view while adding nothing to the community… no help, no constructive criticism, and I dare say no actual knowledge of Blender, but plenty of opinion to go for days.

I was Team Leader for the Swedish Ubuntu LoCo for a year, I couldn’t disagree more. This is a very civil forum for a open source related application, hehe, if you think otherwise you’ve ‘missed out’ - but in the very best way. :wink:

Hehe, that sounds a lot like me. :wink:

Though I know Blender, I’m not really on a level to give sufficient (application) support. I do contribute with my general knowledge though, I learned at least 4-5 things doing graphics, compositing & 3D for almost 25 years. :smiley:

lol, you weren’t on my list of suspects there, Farmfield :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

Right now, your description did fit me quite well though, haven’t been active for a while and now but after Andrews GUI proposal (which I ran across on Youtube), I come here with my ‘opinions’, not even being a ‘real’ Blender user, hehe… :wink:

~

But, talking about forum environments in general, I would say, much of the friction is caused by confidence problems. People are so invested in how they themselves think, how they do things, so when other people don’t think or do things the same way, they get insecure and go on the defensive. It’s easy to get drawn into that kinda BS.

Then you have the ignorance problem. People who don’t know they don’t know sh!t annoying people why know sh!t. This is in correlation the the levels of knowledge, starting out at knowing nothing, getting to a point where you think you know ‘everything’ and continuing onto a state where you know well what you don’t know. It’s very easy to get annoyed by people who been doing stuff for a while and think they know everything when you, like me (and have been doing this for a looong time) who actually know they don’t know sh!t, hehe… Very easy to be rude to such people thus creating friction… :wink:

(Like, I had a guy yesterday, replying to a comment I made on a youtube video, who wanted to explain the term ‘realism’ to me - hilarious)

Finally you have the ‘idiot problem’. There are people out there (and in here) that are idiots. I have one or two here who I place in that category - and for some here, I’m the idiot. It’s a simple as some people just don’t get along, they just don’t like each other. I don’t care about them or what they think - logically, as they are ‘idiots’, hehe - but I’m pretty good at leaving those people alone, sadly they are not always giving me the same courtesy… :stuck_out_tongue:

That’s what I come to think about now anyway, are there other reasons for friction perhaps?

All those things you’ve mentioned can be pretty much summed up as ‘immaturity’.

Anyway, the ui discussions are firmly heading into popcorn territory after Ton’s official statement. I’m hoping for 2.7 development to start up so that everyone who has OPINIONS on things can go complain about how they hate git and that Blender is being swallowed up by the Linux kernel, and that people who hate git are obviously elitistic bastards who don’t know anything about software development, or whatever it is people will argue, and that the ones genuinely giving a shit about the UI can communicate in peace.

I’ll be awaiting the policy changes with assurance.

That’s what I come to think about now anyway, are there other reasons for friction perhaps?

Language for some - I think there are times that I think I understand someone and try to argue, then find that they didn’t mean how they wrote and definitely didn’t mean how I took it. I then get defensive to a point, and have to re-read several times before I get it and let it go, move one.

Well, everyone is ‘immature’ pon some level and those who doesn’t think they are, they’re just stubborn as 6 year olds. :wink:

Yeah, as Ton explicitly said you can’t skin Blender, the discussion was instantly over (imo) in terms of discussing the possability for doing a full GUI remake on top of the ‘framework’. I left the discussion after that.

And end users that whine about the dev environment, things like GIT, compiling or how devs communicate - well, if you’re in a situation where you don’t understand sh!t and/or everyone there talks above your head, it’s not that they are being elitist, they talk and behave as they do on the level they are on and you need to educate yourself or just realize this environment isn’t for you. XDA is a very good example where end users and dev’s meet and sometimes clash heavily, hehe… :wink:

I was involved in Ubuntu for a couple of years, not as a dev but I still wound up in their playard often enough, among other things discussion GUI’s, naturally being a graphic artist. But it’s a rough place, they don’t have time for BS or overly debating details, if they would nothing would ever be get done… End users often don’t get that.

Also, how could Blender be swallowed up by the Linux kernel, hehe? Or was that just a BS example on the crazy talk you hear here at BA…?

Aah, very good point. For those who aren’t natively english speaking it might be hard to see the nuances if someone (like me) is trying to be funny or ironic. I get that a lot on Youtube, making an ironic/sarcastic comment or making a joke and someone thinks I’m serious and goes nuts, hehe…

Well, everyone is ‘immature’ pon some level and those who doesn’t think they are, they’re just stubborn as 6 year olds.

Fair enough.

Also, how could Blender be swallowed up by the Linux kernel, hehe? Or was that just a BS example on the crazy talk you hear here at BA…?

Actually, it’s funny you responded to that half-half.

complain about how they hate git and that Blender is being swallowed up by the Linux kernel, and that people who hate git are obviously elitistic bastards who don’t know anything about software development

But, I’m half-scared the GIT thread is actually heading that way already.

So I´m quite new around here and haven´t really noticed an aggressive nature in these forums.

But it´s always been like that. The mentality, I mean. There are many artists on these boards, most of them trying to make more of their art, in terms of publicity and sparking interest of companies and such.

Jealousy is natural. It´s a question of literature (the way you express your opinion), knowing yourself, understanding other people, and foreseeing the reactions caused by your actions.

One does not have to be offensive, even when one´s got negative critique or one doesn´t like the way another artists did something.

Next up: There´s no “right” or “wrong” way to do stuff.
So that object might have a couple of too many faces there, or that corner might not be beveled correctly, or he might have build it with basic shapes instead of splines - who cares?

The important part is the result. The render.
If it looks good, it´s good. That is what I learned working in the media industry.
People don´t care about the behind-the-scenes. All that matters is the end result that is visible to the customer/viewer.

People who cannot contain themselves in a written form, would appear to have a weak mind anyways, since they have as much time as they desire to “sculpt” their reply, and yet end in an offensive post.

As an apex predator, I don’t get jealous… :wink:

We’ve had a discussion about ‘talent’ here at BA and some say it’s not a real thing - I disagree . Though you can get far on knowledge and hard work, it’ll never get you into that top 15%… (*) I think many people have problems handling it, when they realise they don’t have it, at least to the degree needed to become really good at something like ‘3D’. That’s when you see people become jealous, bitter - well, on a level where they take it out on others I mean…

Personally I was always pretty good at sizing my own potential in the things I’ve done through my life and always knew when I was ‘playing’ in a field where I would never reach the proverbial ‘top’ - but I still enjoyed many of them anyway, up to the level I could. Then I looked for something else fun to do… So I never really bothered about the bitterness, it’s not really my thing. :slight_smile:

(* arbitrary number, but you know what I mean ;))