The Education industry is killing the game industry.

Westwood College has a commercial on G4 Tech TV.

on it, these two guys wo DEFINITELY do not look like they’ve ever played written a line of C in their lives are using old PS1 Dual Shock controllers to “test” a game.

I’m probably gonna get some flack for this, but i’m gonna say that they were stereotypical “beautiful people”.

THEY WERE SITTING ON BEAN BAG CHAIRS IN AN OPEN AREA. there wasn’t a single computer or even a diagnostic screen set up near there!

then some chick comes up and says “hey are you guys done with that beta test yet? I’ve got another one lined up for you to try out.”

and one of those two dudes say, “yeah, We’re almost done with leve 3. it’s good, but the graphics need tightening.” DOSEN’T NEED TIGHTENING?!?! what kind of tester would say that?

and to top it off, the first guy says something along the lines of how awesome their job is to the second guy. the second guy says, “yeah! and my mom was always telling me i was wasting my time withvideo games”


these people are trying to market the industry to losers who do nothign with their time! there are people on this forum who are serious, who researched, and are probably in budding careers as i type this, but these colleges are just looking to rip off some poor, talentless losers who wasted all their efforts on games!!

now, don’t get me wrong. I’m a pretty hardcore gamer. I played 6 hours straight of DDR this morning until 2 PM. I have a collection of all my peripheral boxes i’ve bought over the years. I don’t however, WASTE CONSTRUCTIVE TIME ON GAMES. the people who do this are the ones who are being targeted by the companies. we all know some of these people. they believe every PS3/X360 rumor they’ve seen online and think they know everything, even though could never tell you what the difference is between VRAM and SDRAM.

this just tweaks me, as you can probably see. oh, well. i just wanted to throw that on the table…


That is really crap and stupid.

I don’t know much on C++ but at least I can actually do something



But seriously, game testers? They probabaly wouldn’t understand the word “framerate” But how would they know the enemy’s AI? did they have any pieces of paper showing the coded AI?
The bloody people that made the game would be better than that.

Any chance for an upload of the ad?

btw, what’s the difference between VRAM and SDRAM?

I’ll keep an eye on Tech TV. When i see it, it’s going right up.

and: D(ynamic)RAM [last entry was a typo]- regular ram used in video cards, but it needs constant refreshing multiple times every minute and can’t be re-written on during those times. it can also only do one action (either read or write) at a time.

VRAM is a special type of DRAM which can be written to and read from at the same time, which means you get double the bandwidth. this makes for better refresh rates in video cards and the like.


happens the exact same at design school where i am.

its Bums on seats = Cash.

many people in my classes should never be designing anything, the uni takes all their cash, and gives them few usefull skills.


Yeah, I haven’t seen that commercial specifically, but the Westwood College ads for their Game Development program do bug me. I don’t know much about their curriculum, but just by the way they are marketing the program. “The video game industry is making making more money that the movie industry! It’s fun and exciting! You can be hip like us!” kind of garbage doesn’t impress me at all.

I actually checked out their web site and here’s what they said about the program.

This program helps prepare a student for an entry-level position in the game Software Development industry including the following roles: Game and Interactive Software Tester, Game Maintenance Administrator, Game Documentation Writer, Game Requirements Analyst, and Game Support Specialist.

I looked at the program objectives and it seems that they actually do try to teach you how game development works. But those kinds of ads are misleading, and they are marketing to people that a production manager wouldn’t want anyway. Some people just have no clue what they are getting into. Beta-testers? They don’t just play games. They play the game, assemble different systems to try the game out on every possible system configuration they can, and play the game to try and break it. And when it comes to telling the dev team why the game sucks, they have to tell EXACTLY why. “The controls are not smooth because of this and here’s one way you can fix it. This puzzle isn’t obvious enough, and you’d do better to put that clue here.” And so on. Beta-testers should know as much about how games work, how the design process works, and what makes a good game, as much as the dev team does.

Game development isn’t just fun in games. It’s hard as hell. It’s also very difficult depending on the company that you are with. You have to have more than just “I want to make video games” driving you through the production cycle.

I’ll tell you something though. I’ve allways wanted to make video games. I’ve been coming up with design docs since I was 16. Have I tried to work in the industry? Yup. I would have done music for One Must Fall: Battlegrounds if it wasn’t for the fact that I would have had to leave half-way through the project. So, I know it’s something that I know I could get into.

However, I’ve realized something recently after applying for a temp position here in town for another game dev company. If I get into the industry, I don’t want to make someone else’s game. So, I’m actually glad that those other two opportunities didn’t go through, becuase I wouldn’t have been happy making someone else’s game (plus I’m sure there would have been some kind of Intelectual Property agreement I would have had to sign, and that would have been bad).

I want my games to be different than current industry trends. I want to go against the grain. I’m sick of all those video games that have Generic Soldier Guy and Generic Heroine with T&A as her wardrobe provider. I want games with a well-written story. I want more comedies. I want to make MY types of games and no one elses.

That is what is driving me into the industry. It’s not because I want to sit back and play video games all day for a living. I want to get in there, work my butt off, and change the industry. Fortunatly for me I have a good fall-back plan. I’m studying graphic design, becuase aside from working in the game industry or making my own animated cartoon, THAT’S what I want to do for a living. Besides, I want to do the art design for video games anyway so my education will apply directly.

Besides, I don’t know how any of my potential employers would think about someone having a Bachelors in Game Design.

And on a slightly off-topic note. I hate G4 now. I hate what they did to Tech TV. All the shows I liked were either ruined or canceled. And I tried to watch a few episodes of X Play, which used to be my favorite show on Tech TV is now really stupid, even though they still have one of the same hosts. So, if a video game channel can ruin a video game show, then something is wrong.

OMFG YEAH I SAW TEH SAME THING SEVERAL TIMES!!! IT is so annoying, “crank up the graphics a little bit…” “and my mom said these games wouldn’t get me anywhwere!!!” There are also sum other commercails that annoy the crap out of me buit not in such a large degree as this,

pink striped collared shirt and enjoying testing a game?

yeah, the real world is nothing like that
[for one thing, sweaters are more common]

but, people will learn this stuff is hard very quickly, leaving plenty of demand for people with real skills.

That commercial is quackery. I’ve seen, and I get pissed at the TV everytime.

Needless to say when G4 took over TechTV the station went south. Now the channel sucks.

Now they tailor to idiots, pimpsters and ricers-type folk.

I want Leo and Pat back… :frowning:

in my opinon, tech tv started going south when “Vulture” Ventures (Vulcan Ventures-Paul Allen) bought it. The first bad sign was when they had to get rid of Tux as a mascot and pretty much focused completely on windows. ( go figure…) After G4 it became COMPLETELY useless.

It was a Tech tv segment by Leo that introduced me to blender BTW…

actually I miss Kate Bordello too…

Game and Interactive Software Tester, Game Maintenance Administrator, Game Documentation Writer, Game Requirements Analyst, and Game Support Specialist.

I want those jobs!

they have nothing to do with actually making games. An instruction manual writer? A requirment analyst? A support specialist is a hotline guy who clicks on canned responses! And testing is crap too, i don’t want to play the same level 1000 times over and over.

Not that Commercial, but in another one from Westwood, a Girl says “Can you belive we acualy get paid for playing games”, every time it’s on, I say to my Brother “Can you belive someone acualy got paid for making that Commercial?” LOL :smiley: those comercials are horrible indeed.

I like it, I watch it all the time, it has way more shows then it used to before the merger, X Play was the only one I really cared about (go Sess), the Commercials suck for sure, but 99% of all Commercials are crappy anyway.
But that’s just my oppinion I guess %|

I Have the Commercial!!!
Click here to watch westwood2

Enjoy. get pissed.

See it all the time. Hate em because my dad looks at it and thinks im one of those guys. When im seriously trying to get into animation. And its not just on G$ but also on PAX which has a lot of Matlock and Murder She Wrote. (yeah i dont get the demographics either) Basically the commercials are spreading which pisses me off. so i swore to never show up as a guest speaker/teacher and to convince people not to attend. See there is something i can do. :stuck_out_tongue:

pretty much Westwood and i think Brooks are the clown colleges. AI im not really sure about (my friend goes there and says its pretty good plus thats where the igda meeting was held, but now its been held at Westwood) so maybe its like the community college. and places like Cal Arts and DigiPen are like the Ivy League Universities. hmm yeah not much in between except maybe UCs and CSUs.

I think the game industry is just too new for you to actually get a degree in it. Personally, I would rather hire an artist that got their degree at a CSU (California State University) in traditional art than someone who thinks they know what they are doing because they got their degree in Game Art and Design at Westwood, because if they got their training without an emphasis in game design, then they should already know those skills that are important to me. I can teach them how to use our tools and how to apply what they have learned once they are hired. If you are a good artist and love video games? Bingo.

I probably wouldn’t feel that way if it wasn’t for Westwood’s ads. They are trying to get people into the program for the wrong reasons. I’m giving them the benifit of the doubt, but if their program is any reflection of their TV ads then I wouldn’t hire anyone that got their degree in game design there. I don’t want to hire someone because they wanted to be a game designer because it’s easy and all you do is play games all day.

Unfortunately, I think we are going to see a lot more of this kind of stuff in the near future. As I’ve said, the industry is very young and has a lot of learning to do. In 1996, hit titles cost less than a million to make. 9 years later they cost 20 million, and with the so-called “next-gen” titles are going to cost more. 1 million to 20 million needed to make a game? That’s a lot of learning to do in 9 years. Most of that is due to the graphical capabilities growing so much that the number of content creators you have to hire to keep up with the graphical times is enormous. (We can partially thank ATI’s and nVidia’s competition for raising the bar of graphics so high that developers can’t afford to do much else).

With games costing this much, publishers are not going to take as many risks as in the past, and they are going to try to get as many people to buy their games as possible. You’ve noticed that gaming isn’t just a geek thing anymore. It’s becoming more main stream. And with Microsoft spreading the word of the new “HD Era” and how important it is to get as wide a demographic as possible playing your games, it’s no wonder why they are showing off the X-Box 360, as it’s rumored to be called, as an MTV special before E3.

Great. Now I’m going to be a gamer that shares the same demographic as people that watch MTV. MTV is a marketing whore, and it scares me to think that the industry could be taking this route.

MTV: The shiny things network

I’d have to agree, hopefully this will change some of the silly things many developers do, namely writing their own engine
[programmers are very guilty of doing this too]

atmittedly game engines need to be revised every few years even if for technology reasons alone [unreal3!!! doom3!!!], but it costs too much and takes way too long to build an engine [needed by the art pipline to know they are getting stuff right]…

oh well, this is something I guess people will figure out [or else]

middleware [even open source] is good, don’t fear it
[as a hobbyist I can waste as much time as I want on my own engine and other toys [physics and stuff]]

I’m both old time traditional artist(started so as a child), and game artist. Man would I change my profession(games) by several others I see in friends around…

Yep, I would. Totally.Right now.

It’s a thing I love to do by hobby (but no more than an oil picture) , but as job, and the way things are right now…ouch.

while ignoring their poor reflection on the games inudtry i must say.

WHAT A CRAP AD. that ad is so poor quality that its not funny.

including the bad reflection of the game indutry, OMG what a crap ad, but its just like my university… except my university has good ads :stuck_out_tongue:


You guys have to remember that Westwood College is limited by a budget, so more than likely they hired some third rate production company make their commercials or (this explains a lot) they got their film students to make it. If so, the commercial says how crappy their film department is more than how crappy their “gaming development” department is.

I think the idea of a gaming development degree is quite useless at this moment. Unless your making independent games, you will have a specific role in the production line. Designers and artists can easily transfer their skills. Programmers can easily pick up game programming. Game programming is actually considered a part of computer science degrees.

What exactly are they teaching the students?

I’m rather alarmed by the increasing number of game design programs that are popping up. Maybe I’m a bit biased since I’m working towards a comp sci degree, but I don’t think a game design degree is a good educational choice.

“you will have a specific role in the production line.”

Well, in small companies, if there are like 3 gfx persons only…each must do it all…And the only learn possible is…as you work with tight constrains. (in some parts of the world there aren’t those colleges.Not even considered as a future option)

But it’s true, small companies , with the arrival of normal maps, parallax mapping, forcing it all be hi res, actually, in what is production at least…No way small staff companies can be in the game now, and less in the times to come.

So, imo, specializing will finally be the rule, but once in the job. I doubt they stop asking u to know every single bit of art before they grab u, or at least, they will not demmand persons with expertise in the small areas they will be used for, but in plenty of them. While the fact is…specializing willbe the rule. yet though, some companies do at a time many projects with small teams, they just have very long term projects, or use existing assets, or simply still do games with no normal maps, so, no hi res(it’s the hi res work plus all the games extra stuff).