The first steps could be painfull but eye-opening.

General Forums Blender and CG Discussions
1

Hello,

My name is Kalin and I decided to take part in the Blendswap competition. I was quite exited since it was going to be my first competition and I found the subject very cool and I thought I might do relatively good(far away from thinking that I might actualy win something but in general we all secretly dream and think about it).

I had to push it since I found out about the project in the middle of the month and the deadline to submit your work was April 1. Between work and Uni for my novice abilities as a hobbyist I was quite happy with what I got.

This is my 1st issue that I found out for myself in the last day.

All went well until Blendswap decided to extend the period 2 days before submitting the final work.
In some cases this would be awesome for people that are behind with texturing or rigging or whatever.
In this line of thinking you could make those weekend challenges a few days longer because someone didnt have time to finish the textures of their model. WHAT’S THE POINT OF THE DEADLINE?!?!?!?!
Now, you could say: “What you whining about? Just go and use this additional time yourself!”
To witch I will answer:" Maybe I took part in the contest because I thought I will have time to meet the deadline and finish the project that is in my head." Maybe I have to go to work and in the same time to take exams.
Like I suggested in a letter to the Blendswap representatives before starting a competition you could make a poll and ask people what they think is a reasonable time to finish a model, or a scene, or whatever. There are other ways to go at this Im sure.
My second issue I found for myself is NEVER NEVER EVER EVER post a WIP thread of a model…that you are working on…and that you intend to use for a competition. Why?

Not enough constructive feedback…people with not enough knowledge themselves burdening you with their inacurate opinions…other contestants making silly ways to copy and steal your ideas.

This may sound like a rant…and to some degree it is a rant. But it is one thing for sure… If I have a friend that is about to undertake such a challenge those two things will be the first things I WILL tell him to watch for. Thats until I found new ones by myself.

No, I wont take part in the contest, regarding of the quality of my work. I feel that the time and effort that I spent on the project was spitted upon.

I’m not 100% sure if this is the right thread to post this in for witch I beg you to be excused and English is not my native language so I will ask to be excused again.

2

Good tips! I’ve haven’t taken part in a CG contest yet, but I can imagine what you mentioned being issues. Especially the WIP thread. I guess in a case like this, it’s just best to make the model, then post WIP images afterwards, if people are interested in how you made it.

3

In a case like Blendswap and when files are shared I suggest post it at the very last possible moment to avoid being copied.

4

I have to say I disagree with everything you just said, your reasoning is not logical when you are mad and I’ll tell you why.

These sorts of competitions are for people to improve their skills rather than win a shiny prize, if you don’t post a WIP thread you are not going to see the wrongs before it’s too late and then you haven’t learned anything, does it really take that much time to read through a “inaccurate” post? The thing is that you don’t have to be a pro to point out the mistakes of someone else, if a newbie says “Hey the neck looks a bit long and the head a bit big” you can reflect upon that to finally say “yeah, it does look wrong actually” and change it, don’t ignore him because he can’t do better himself, we never get good enough to do everything perfectly every single time.

On the topic of stealing.
CG artists have already squeezed every ounce of originality from the work already, if you find yourself with an “original” idea it’s safe to bet $1,000 that someone has done it before you, no idea is original, you just have to combine it with other non-creative ideas to stand out a little bit more from the crowd, we always seek inspiration in other peoples art so it’s not strange if our creations end up being almost identical to other creations, if you end up having your idea “stolen” by someone else you should be proud that your idea was good enough to copy.

But you can’t go say that someone “stole” your idea anymore because you’ll find out that they might have copied it from Jason Martin or someone else who did it long before you did.

5

I respect your right to disagree. Few things.

  1. I posted a WIP thread on this forum, in the focused critique section. Also when I decided the project was relatively done it was posted in the Finished projects section. “Why people post WIP threads in the 1st place?” - you might ask. Ok…lets try to uncover the mistery once and for all.
  • Dying need for attention/approval/recognition.
  • A need to receive info how their work could be improved.
  • What could work on the model better and what wouldnt.
  • [Your input here]
    In my case, as you can see yourself by checking my WIP thread, there isnt any real constructive feedback given. In fact almost none. If your logic is developed enough, you will reach the conclussion that along with my WIP thread there are a few other WIP threads that are part of the same contest, so logicaly the need for recognition/attention should be ruled out…SINCE…like you mentioned the purpose of the contest is to improve>>>>>THE REASON for me to post my WIP in the 1st place.
    Now, I have to say that you posted this without atleast recognizing yourself with my WIP thread. Witch leads me to your second argument about ‘stealing’.
  1. If you read my original post you will see that…realy…Im not acusing anybody of stealing any of my ideas DIRECTLY. I could,however, have some suspisions on my own, witch is an issue, that is left for me and me only to face. I do believe, that this is a good advice to follow, after seing what you just said:

if you end up having your idea “stolen” by someone else you should be proud that your idea was good enough to copy.

I would preffer my idea to be unique…not perfect but unique. If you believe that is good for other people to copy yout ideas then I would kindly suggest that you are naive.

3.And last, you cant disagree with everything I said until you atleast share your arguments on everything I said…like changing the deadline 2 days before submitting the final work…for me its logical. Please explain to me so I can say that you are right and Im wrong. Why dont you just make the competition half year or one year. What is the reason and common explanation to change the deadline 2 days before you have to submit your work? And I would like to know how the founders of Blendswap think on the matter since Im puzzled. I need to know the logic. Im sure Im probably narrow-minded(and probably mad like suggested), and the answer is just out there infront of me.

Just to share…for my model my inspiration comes from Bram Stoker’s Dracula. Thats probably the only thing I could agree with you, that everyone takes their inspiration from somewhere. There are cases where things could be eye-gouging.

6

I for one am happy that they extended the deadline, I wouldn’t have had the time to finish it otherwise due to exams and other uni stuff. Personally I think you put too much focus on winning and not enough on trying to improve yourself. For me it’s more about creating something that I’m proud of and that shows what I’m currently capable of. If I would win, that would be fine, if not that’s fine too. This contest for me, is fun way to work on a new character, which I probably would have, just with little less focus.

If you were happy with the old deadline and consider your piece completely done, than don’t work on it anymore. If you feel that it could use a bit more polishing, use the time. Again I feel that you care more about winning than trying to better your art (no offense here, winning is fun). But you shouldn’t get mad about it if it doesn’t really affect you or your piece (though I think they should keep it in mind if a piece was in before the first soft deadline or the second hard deadline).

Lastly my two cents on wip threads. Sure there are a lot of people of varying skill levels commenting on your thread, some better, some worse but I try to appreciate every comment. They can give you tips on what needs work and what already works, and that’s something independent of their skill level. And if you don’t agree, explain why, it forces you to take another look at it, and maybe see new insights. Time is a valuable commodity and people invest it in commenting on your thread, that should be a compliment in itself.

Ofcourse it can be frustrating if people ‘steal’ your ideas, but it shouldn’t bother you too much. Instead, like ninthjake said, you should be somewhat proud. Focus more on the execution of the idea that you have, than worry about some one stealing it. If you’re execution is good, people are bound to use it as inspiration, and this can actually lead to more exposure for you, which is a good thing.
Conclusion: Less worrying, more being happy and working on your own artistic abilities :slight_smile:

7

You make a lot of comments that I think are a little impulsive, but that is OK, you are obviously a competitor by nature, and that is a good thing. Deadline extensions are actually more the norm than the rule… As an instructor I was constantly extending deadlines, it is difficult to judge how long a student will take to do something I did quickly. As a researcher, in the last three weeks I have had two national research award deadlines extended. it happens all the time.

But on the topic of WIP threads – I really don’t think anyone gets a lot of feedback. ask yourself, how many WIP do you comment on, and how many do you pass over? The truth that I think we all know, is that we are egotistical, we post to be noticed, and unless we get a post every five minutes, we feel let down. I have come to expect this. so I find if I want to get interaction, begin a conversation on someone else’s work. show an honest interest in what they are doing, maybe someone will show an honest interest in what you are doing.

8

@Month. I like that you sound positive. However you missed the whole point and being always positive cant always keep you away from some truths.
If you did read carefuly my original post you will understand that my drive to post this in the 1st place is far beyond my sick ambition to win at all cost. Instead I will repeat myself a bit and try to refrase what I said above so maybe you could understand better.
-Im not 10 years old(NO OFFENCE to 10 year old boys and girls).Im 28 years old, Im believe that my ability to evaluate my own abilities and the environment around me, are developed enough.
-Like I mentioned above I wont take part in this contest, but I wish the contestants luck and to have fun. What you just did is prove that is very easy to blame someone for craving attention or wanting to win SO BAD. Its the easiest thing to justify a response like mine, instead think about it how it could improve future projects/contests and such.
-The main problem I have is that the contest is not threating everybody equaly.Ok, it helped you to finish and tweak your project. Ok, you had uni and stuff. Yes, but now I have Uni/work/stuff. Can I ask the project to be extended for another 2 weeks because I have obligations outside the contest. Your arguments are basicly use a lot of the ‘happy’ word and hope for the best.

Conclusion: There are far more important things than those that I need to worry. My intentions were constructive when I posted this.

None of you so far makes any sense.

9

Someone that makes sense. Actualy I will use your aproach in the future should I decide to start a WIP thread. About the ego…absolutely, and I touched the subject briefly a bit above. However, I believe it requires maturity to grow above that and that you cant say that for all the people on these forums.

About me comenting other people’s work - at this stage of my hobbyist career as a 3D artist, Im sticking to just praising other peoples work when credit is required and trying to implement common sense. I’m quite aware of my own personal abilities and so I dont allow myself to judge other people’s work and project.

I just saw the thread you started regarding the Blendswap contest. I saw the last post and I said to myself: That should have been the 1st comment on this thread, not the last.

P.S. Usualy people are competitive when they are taking part in a competition. So I decided to not take part in that one. The only thing I believe I lost is my time witch is the main reason for me being a bit impulsive as you mentioned. Again, good luck to all. I have a favorite and at the end of the day I’m getting inspired by some posts on these forums.

10

I wasn’t picking on you with the WIP stuff – just understand that your behavior towards others stuff is pretty typical – the newbies don’t feel qualified to comment, the pro’s are too busy to comment. So just ask yourself, what would you appreciate on your threads, and do that for others. Sometimes (a lot of times) I would just like to know someone looked. So I leave a lot of comments on other’s which are pretty worthless, but at least an acknowledgement.

11

So isnt that a worse case? When you give an acknowledgement to someone when instead you should make a constructive critic.share your expirience, give them tips? You contradict youself here a bit I think. Or perhaps you ment just that…or I didnt understand it right.

Yes, being completely honest, compared to some of the talent here, Im indeed a newbie and not that I dont FEEL qualified to comment…I KNOW Im not qualified to comment. Why should I comment when Im sertain that my knowledge is not enough in this or that area.

I could go “ninja-philosophic” on you and say that one of the greatest greek sayings is:

“I know that I know nothing, but the others dont know even that.”

In the possition that Im in, my behaviour towards other peoples work is full respect. Respectfull enough so I restrain myself from sharing my inacurate knowledge.

And so…here it is my personal oppinion on posting WIP threads when part of a contest, with a followed example. It is up to the people to decide for themselves whether or not Im right or wrong or whether or not they will aply this in the future or not. I know I will.

12

If you did read carefuly my original post you will understand that my drive to post this in the 1st place is far beyond my sick ambition to win at all cost.

I’m not saying you are, or are not only obsessed with winning. That was just the vibe I got from your first post and I had no intention of portraying you as someone that is only obsessed with winning. But that is the only reason, that makes sense to me, why you would be mad about extending the deadline.

Im 28 years old, Im believe that my ability to evaluate my own abilities and the environment around me, are developed enough.

If you’re referring to your ability to judge your own artwork (I’m not completely sure about this, so if that’s not the case ignore this). I personally find that other peoples insights are very useful, as they can help to bring pictures to a higher level. I might have made choices based on my own experiences that don’t that make sense to others. Having others critique these things is helpful imho. That’s why I like to get comments and critiques (and ofcourse it boosts the ego if a lot of people comment on your piece, that’s another important aspect :p)
In the end I try to make artwork that can be appreciated by other people, and that’s why I make wip threads every now and then. If your artwork is more for yourself than for others, you don’t have to make wip threads, as they won’t yield any interesting feedback (cause the only one that can have interesting feedback is you). (again I’m not saying that you are, or are not a certain way, just trying to explain my own motives. Which is harder than I thought in a foreign language :p)

The main problem I have is that the contest is not threating everybody equaly.

That’s why I suggested they should keep in mind that some people handed it in at the first deadline, and others used more time.

What you just did is prove that is very easy to blame someone for craving attention or wanting to win SO BAD. Its the easiest thing to justify a response like mine, instead think about it how it could improve future projects/contests and such.

Again, I had no intention of making you look bad, and if it sounded that way, I blame the language barrier, english isn’t my mother tongue either. Personally I don’t think extending deadlines is that big of deal. So that’s why focused on your response instead of thinking about improvement of said contests.

However you missed the whole point and being always positive cant always keep you away from some truths.

I don’t see how I missed the whole point? I’m not always positive, and I can be frustrated as well. But generally a positive outlook on these kind of things helps deal with such situations, so that’s why I try to be positive. If they didn’t extended the deadline, I wouldn’t have entered this competition, but I still would have finished my model and uploaded it on blendswap. I wouldn’t have cared much either way as the competition is not my final goal, but just a fun extra.
I regret that you’re not gonna enter in the competition. Since you got a nice finished piece.

Would it have made much of a difference if they would have set this deadline at the beginning? You wouldn’t have had that last week either way, and you could have still made the same entry in the time you had. Everybody has different schedules, and different amounts of time they can spend on such a project. I don’t agree that you can say it isn’t fair, nobody can commit the same amount of time, and in that respect it can never be fair.

I hope this elaborated my perspective on this a bit more. As a final note, no offense is meant in anyway.
Time to do some work.

13

@ Month.

That would be too selfish and far too egocentric to think that my judgement of my personal work ends with that.

nobody can commit the same amount of time, and in that respect it can never be
fair.

It can be fair, when they say from march 1st to april 1st. I just found the word I was looking for. This is a pure form of favouritism. Either you are clear about rules from the get-go, or you arent.

I think I bored people enough. I rest my case.

…And no offense taken. I hope this helped someone atleast to consider and think on the matter.

14

general comments

there are rules so everyone follows them and if you don’t then your out!
samething with laws like maximum speed on the road!

these rules or laws are simply there so that they are use as a common set of rules for everyone to follow
not there to please one or the other or it would never end!

and today with the WWW original ideas are almost an exception then a rule
there has been so many original ideas/models done that it’s becoming almost impossible to truly have a real original idea or model!
and as time pass it’s getting even worst!

so use your imagination and add/modify things to give them a different look even if not entirely original
at least it won’t be 100 % same then someone else!

contest are difficult because they are time limited and that’s the idea to make something in a weekend ect
but these are the basic rules so you can take the chalenge or not you’r still free to choose here!

and i would suggest that for a contest lot’s of peoples might try to participate and you should show your model only when almost completed and not at the beginning where peoples can copy what you did or get ideas they did not have before!

you have to be prudent with your model if you put it on the open web then somone else might copy part of what you did somewhere on the planet!

if you don’t want anyone to copy what you did then don’t put it on the WEB so no one can see it and copy it!

good luck
happy blendering

15

Not enough constructive feedback…people with not enough knowledge themselves burdening you with their inacurate opinions…other contestants making silly ways to copy and steal your ideas.

My 2 cents:
WIP threads are helpful to me because i take every comment with a grain of salt.As for constructive criticism, I think that it is really hit and miss. What I found is that the better the picture looks, the more people want to critique it. I know this sounds very backward, but it is true. For example, my blender guru contest WIP was overall helpful because someone commented on my poor lighting that I had unknowingly neglected, and had totally forgot to fix. This one single comment boosted the quality of my work a good amount. I’d say the hardest part is getting it started, because the more replies it gets the more people are curious about it.

I hope this makes some sense, its too early in the morning for me

16

Well… I still don’t know what you are talking about really but:

See this is the main problem I see just about everywhere.

You don’t have to be “qualified” to post a critique, we humans are used to see “reality” so when something is off we spot it instantly, the reason artists will screw something up is because we work on it for so long and therefore get used to it looking odd, you don’t have to know anything about the subject to tell that something looks off to you, if people would just actually say what they think instead of pondering whether they are “qualified” to point it out or not we would have much better artists in the world.

I gave some criticism on an animation produced by a large production house once and I got a lot of complaints saying that I apparently wasn’t “professional enough” to say anything about it but when I spoke to the artists about it they said that they want criticism rather than people saying “This is so perfect in every single way” because the latter doesn’t allow them to improve.

So don’t think you can’t comment because you aren’t skillful enough, not providing (constructive) criticism is just the same as actively trying to shove them down the skill-tree.

17

Damn close. :slight_smile: “excited,” “which” not “witch,” otherwise nearly perfect.

But, you know, why not cut these contests just a little bit more slack? Do it for the self-learning and for whatever kudos you happen to be able to get, if any. Do it to show off your work. Do it for the love of this magical art. And if somebody “steals your ideas,” pity them for being not nearly so creative as you but … be like a duck: let it roll right off your back, and swim on.

18

Your argument is good and I will partialy agree with you. There are alot of things that were improved based on the oppinions of people that are not specialists in certain areas. Sake…the game industry is evolving based on the demands of gamers, their needs, their perspective. This doesnt make it exclusive and on this you will have to agree with me.

19

I love these circular argument threads… they go nowhere fast. It boils down to, you can’t please all people all the time. One person’s personal passion is another’s indifference.

20

My personal interpretation is that Blendswap will preffer to have more models on their website that will be shared and used by more people, leading to more people visiting the forum…leading to more popularity. Nothing wrong with that. Good justification in terms of eventual future proffit taking different forms. This, however, does not make it fair in any way. We are not talking about pleasing everyone, we are talking about making rules and following them by all.

If you check the forum of the contest Right now, it still says that the contest will run from March 1st to April 1st.

This is not a circular argument thread. This is a thread where I did share my experience and its up to people to decide if Im right or wrong. My personal oppinion, feel free to agree or disagree, or completely ignore.