The Foundry releases the new 10 series for Modo, a release specialized for games

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1

Reading through, it looks like the feedback on this will very much depend on what you’re doing in the 3D field. Essentially, this is a released specialized for game development, but in my opinion it might be a little too specialized because it was made for game development with Unity and Unreal 4 (so it would have a bit less impact if you’re using an engine such as Godot, Skyline, Urho3D, NeoAxis, Torque 3D, Cryengine, and many other active ones.

Still, it looks to have a number of features that would benefit all game developers and not just the ones using the two main ones (with the caveat that it may not offer near as much for those into art and animation compared to previous releases). Still, I can’t deny that it would be seen as a very good release for the people it is aimed at.

Then there’s the final thing, and that is if the 10 series releases will be another one of those that need over half a year of service packs before they are stable and fully usable (something The Foundry will have to avoid if they don’t want a major revenue hit in the future). Then there’s the fact of whether the tools work as their shiny marketing page suggests.

Comments?

2

The streamlined export to game engines sounds like the biggest feature for me. Using both Unity and Unreal it would be neat to have PBR viewport where the materials looks the same in game engine. I have to re-create all materials once imported. It’s not so bad for easy materials or now and then but gets tedious in the long run.

videos are not so in-depth on the features, I would like to see if how I/O to Unreal and Unity goes, if it’s manually exporting FBX, importing or if it’s streaming assets or press a button to send to game engine.

Weird it’s called 10.0v1 :stuck_out_tongue: guess it’s the equivalent to blenders (a), (b) releases … bug fixes.

UDIM support sounds nice, that’s heading into blender also soonish I think.

3

I don’t think Modo 10 generally is aimed at game development, it just seems like this first update is. It’s a bit weird that this is the first (tiny) update of three, why not release it when it’s done? Although maybe it’s easier to fix stability issues this way. When I tried MODO before I got random crashes when modeling. I kind of want to try the 30 day trial just to see how stable it is now.

Sure, some of those features seem nice, but some of them are pretty useless if you’re using something else for texturing like the Substance suite (where you have PBR parity anyway). And even if they are nice features it’s still $1800 or something crazy. There’s an indie version which is a bit more reasonably priced, but it also has tons of restrictions.

• OBJ and FBX export limited to 100k polys
• Bake and render resolution limited to 4k
• Command eval options unavailable
• Command, scripts, and command history panel results unavailable except “undo” and “history”
• Python editor, third-party scripts, and third-party plugins unavailable
• Can import all formats, but can only save in .lxf format
• Export formats limited to OBJ and FBX
• Image save formats limited to .png, .jpg, .tiff, .tga and .exr
• Network Rendering is disabled

The 100k export limit is a bit ridiculous, you can’t sculpt something, export it and use it for baking normal maps or whatever. No scripting too. All in all it just seems more of the same to me than something new and exciting.

4

I believe the Foundry is trying out a new release model: three v10 updates which are free to anyone who gets a license of Modo 10.

My concern would be that I do not know in advance what is being worked on in regards to the other two 10.x releases. There does not seem to be a road map of any kind. Which means you would have to just trust that the upcoming two releases contain new tools and updates to existing ones which may or may not be of interest to you.

I would never want to fall into that “trap”/biz model myself. The reason why kickstarter works is simple: any potential investor is informed about the intention of the developer. That does not seem to be the case here.

The only thing available in terms of info are a couple of pointers in direct connect (only available to Modo users). Where is the friggin’ road map?

5

So the changes in a new modo release are comparable to the changes to blender 2.76 to 2.77?

6

Thought I would pop back in and clarify some stuff regarding the 10 update, whats in it, what it means and where they can go from there.

To get this ball rolling, lets talk about the significant difference with 10 rolling out the way it has and with the specialized focus Ace noticed.

901 or (9.01) was a mess when it launched, too many bugs, too many features promised to come along later. They had to spend a significant amount of development time juggling between getting those new features in plus fix bugs, while a lot of the new developments would cause more bugs. It just wasn’t efficient. Modo is getting bigger, covering far more areas it started with (as a dedicated modeler).
Previously, their approach has been to focus on generality, meaning try to get in a bit for every field and prioritize general features as opposed to specialized ones. This ultimately came to bite them in the ass, as it meant they couldnt do some things as well as they needed to be, in addition to that, it was causing far more bugs and instability that necessary (harder to manage).

So with 10, they are trying to do focused releases in increments. This will allow them to release more fleshed out features for a particular field (with a greater priority given to its development), release it when its ready as opposed to hitting a magical annual release point, and test out specific builds through (beta team) while reducing the likelihood of a bug ridden launch.

Whether this works out as intended remains to be seen, but so far its been good. There will be 3 major development releases (with service pack updates inbetween) during 10’s annual (post annual?) cycle. 10.0, 10.1 and 10.2. The service packs will be labeled as v1, v2 v3…ect So for this launch we have feature update 10.0 v1.

This leads me to what exactly is in 10.0 v1?

Generally speaking:

  1. Real time game asset authoring.
  2. The initial VR implementations.

With the Game Asset Authoring features, we get:
a) Greatly improved real time viewport that has surpassed Mari’s VP in terms of technical achievement. It was built off what Mari had accomplished in their VP. There is now parity in development between both application’s viewports.
b) Starting off, there are new materials native to Modo that mimic the exact look and style of Unity and Unreal. When mixed with sculpting, painting, and the various baking features… this becomes a very powerful combo for authoring assets intended for those engines (all in real time).
c) Potential for an updated Substance plugin which can take advantage of the new viewport without relying on the preview renderer.
d) Fly/walk mode within the viewport. Yes, WASD controls for those who do level design or just want a different mode of nav.
e) Vertex shading toolbox. This was previously a plugin made by Rockstar’s Jame’s O’ Hare, who eventually left Rockstar and began working for The Foundry on Modo. Now his work is a native feature built into Modo.
f) A streamlined game tools tab, which should remind Blender user’s a bit of their interface a bit. This combines everything from a baking wizard, normal manipulation tools, the ability to toggle UV/preview render, nodes and timeline all within the same layout…and more. Its really the most efficient way to work in Modo now, and this applies to those not merely doing game art.

There are also various other additions that slide in with the “games” focus, though not specifically being for them. This includes soft body improvements (cloth, hair…ect), mesh painting enhancements, more robust color management…ect See more here (http://community.thefoundry.co.uk/discussion/topic.aspx?f=3&t=121498)

So where is this going to go? Well I cant spill the beans on that just yet, but the next feature update (again there will be a total of 3 big ones for 10), 10.1 will include the start of something that some users (from all major 3d applications) will say “its about damn time”. If you have access to the direct connect section of Modo’s forums, you can see video of this development now.

There is also the presence of 3rd party tools, mods and development that occur alongside Modo. The new viewport, the new materials, and some of tools really open up the opportunities for some nice 3rd party additions to the mix. I can see the ZEN UI mod doing very well with these new additions.

Furthermore… and this is a BIG ONE. Modo Indie should be prepping for its own 10.0 release soon. This means access to Modo 10 for an extremely cheap price point or as low as $9 a month through Steam. This is commercially viable software with a few restrictions on export size.

7

I can vouch for the fact that this release is a lot more stable than 901 was, which is precisely why they went with a focused feature release approach. As for how well things work in the long run and whether or not its improved upon in a timely fashion, thats really anyone’s guess. There still seems to be some growing pains and changes being made on their end to improve upon the development process. 901 was a bit of a wake up call I would think.

I agree… it is painfully obvious that one thing they need to greatly improve upon is the communication. Luxology, before they were bought out, didnt seem to have this problem. As they became part of something bigger, it seems like the communication/relationship between development end and community took a serious hit… this includes the friendly trust factor. I do not think there is anything nefarious, its more clumsy and awkward at this point.

Agree on the business model as well, but its still a step up from what they did before. They are not known for taking risks when it comes to this kind of stuff, so even this small change is a big step.

You are correct, 10.0 v1 is mostly aimed at delivering the game artist features many have been requesting. The game people have been left out for quite some time. 10.1 and 10.2 can and will target some other area of Modo… whether it be animation or modeling…ect. They are not so much targeting fields now (with the exception of the game stuff) but more or less areas of Modo that can get more drastic additions/improvements. This can be animation, modeling, dynamics…ect

As for the 100k export. Thats not ridiculous at all. You are not limited by size within Modo, so do your baking in Modo. Its easy. With the right map baked out, you can use it in addition to the low poly mesh to bake out other maps in a different app (like xnormal or substance) if you wish… but for the most part Modo’s baking is pretty damn good. The limit isnt a problem if they want you to bake in modo. Additionally, if we go by the logic that some apps do better baking, the same can be said for sculpting. Sculpt the high poly in zbrush, 3d coat or blender, import it into Modo Indie (no restriction on import size), retopo and UV in Modo, then export the low poly to bake with the high poly in external app.

Its really not a big deal for the game artist. Scripting is another matter… can anyone really think of what major scripts are needed for Modo Indie? The biggest one was the vertex normal toolkit, and now thats a native feature in Modo (they hired the guy who made the plugin). Other scripts were very popular, like the make circle or alignment scripts… well those are also built into Modo natively now. So we are getting to the point where the more popular scripts and plugins have become integrated into Modo already. A lot of the other stuff can be accomplished by creating and sharing macros, which can be done in Modo Indie.

For example, there is a Pelter macro on the polycount forums. It makes a one button near perfect unwrap for UVs, all using a series of steps within Modo and combined into a macro file. This can then be run from within a menu or tied to a hotkey. So its not like you are locked out completely from such workflows.

8

If I want to sculpt the model in Modo and export a high poly version for Substance Painter I can’t. And I obviously don’t want to texture in Modo (if you even can) when I’ve got Substance Painter. :stuck_out_tongue: Can you even bake all maps in Modo?

So yes, for me a 100k poly limit is ridiculous.

9

MODO in this case serves as final authoring package. So, sculpt in ZBrush, 3DCoat or Blender, bake maps, bring your models back into MODO, assemble your level (or animate, if there are animation tools), export to your game.

4k texture size is more than enough for games.

10

Thats absurd. You might not be using Painter to the fullest extent of its ability. If you want to sculpt a high poly in Modo (not sure why), then that means you are working with subd. Bake an object space normal map based on your sculpt with the lower poly variant being used in Painter. With the object space normal map you can create any series of maps you want, painter responds to the normal map as though it were geometry. If you want to see what you paint in Modo, then just import the maps and apply it. If you set up your UVs properly you wont have that problem.

Its really a non issue. As technical artist we have to be problem solvers, there are so many ways to get something done. One piece of software might require you to tweak the process a bit, but you still get the same thing at the end.

The baking options in Modo are fantastic, but you just need the object space normal if you want to generate other maps in software like xnormal or substance designer. To reiterate again, Modo’s baking is no light weight. One more thing, theres the magic of the smooth edge shader which can be used when baking (Tor Frick is known for using this technique when generating normal maps: https://www.artstation.com/artist/snefer).

11

Any news on the indie version, the future of it, it’s scripting support and support for the Steam version in general?

12

I wonder that myself, they first released modo indie, then modo indie 901, I have to ask some colleagues if they had to buy both indie packages, or if it’s a subscription for whatever the latest version is.

modo indie seems to me the only viable option as indie game artists. pretty cheap. get all the necessary stuff to do game assets, and can render in 4k without water mark if you wanna do some offline renders.

funny thing about modo and blender on steam, modo 64% positive reviews of 21 users. blender 96% positive reviews of 2197 users.

13

Sort of, Indie version 10 is on its way, theres a period of beta testing first before its sent out. Scripting support is unlikely for the same reason Maya LT doesnt have it (excluding mel scripts, which are like Modo Macros). It basically boils down to python scripting, and if thats allowed you can get around the Indie limitations. Unlike Maya LT, Modo Indie is the full version of Modo. You get everything from dynamics to animation. Its a $1800 piece of software sold for peanuts in Indie form (also commercially viable). So naturally anything that can bypass the export limitations has to be removed. That said, they made sure to remind people that the macro system works…and popular scripts/plugins are starting to be integrated into the software itself.

General support can be had in the Foundry chat channel, steam forums and official website forums. Chat channel is the best bet usually, followed by the official forums.

So, first it started with Modo SE. This was meant mostly for Dota 2 assets. This had many limitations. Eventually it evolved into Modo Indie (Modo 801 on steam). For Modo SE users this was a FREE update.
Once Modo 901 released, half a year later Modo Indie 901 was release, this included an update price which mirrored the full version’s upgrade process (perpetual license only). If you were on the subscription (which is like $9 a month for 6 month increments) the update was free since the sub continues.

Regarding the negative reviews, a lot of them were either pissed that they didnt get the latest version right away (as in Modo pro launches, and they get the updates half a year later), or that there was no scripting + built in limitations. Some even complained it was too expensive… as if they have no understanding of what professional software normally cost. Blender is already well known and Free. Its hard to write a negative review for something that didnt cost you a dime.

14

I’ve used Modo Indie for a while now (although not actually subscribing currently) and it is excellent value, especially if you are keeping your entire workflow within the application.

15

The attractive thing about Modo to me is to be able to complete assets by having a one stop shop solution. The sculpting is really not there yet perhaps. Likey if you are going to be doing high detail stuff then you would want to use Zbrush or 3D coat. I don’t even think Blender sculpting is all there yet. And not even Mudbox can compare to Zbrush.

So the 100K limit is a bit of a pain if you are not going only to game engines. It can be limiting. But I think the strengths of Modo point more to doing texturing and baking within Modo and outputting the final asset to a game or other pipeline or even rendering and animating in Modo.

So this would not exclude the idea of bringing high poly sculpts into Modo for baking.

But lets say you wanted to use Substance for all of your texture work. And you wanted to sculpt in Modo. Yes, the 100K is prohibitive, but so are the sculpting features in Modo.

The reason you want a high poly mesh in Substance is because it can bake your maps for you. But that is only one aspect of that pipeline. It is not the end all.

For me I always prefer not to use Substance for baking. It does it but I have never been satisfied with the results. I prefer to do all of my baking outside of my texture program.

So for that you want (tangent not object space by the way for the details) normal maps baked outside of Substance Designer or painter.

My pipeline includes Zbrush. So I would not want to be sculpting in Modo. But you could. And you could sculpt and bake all of your maps there.

And for a substance workflow with Modo Indie simply bake all maps in Modo Indie.

If what you want is high quality sculpt output, money is better spent on Zbrush than the full version of any alternate sculpting solution in my opinion.

Lifting the 100K limit would be welcome of course. But before it is something to really take advantage of, I’d say it needs a sculpting face lift which would include a performance facelift for high poly count. That is just my opinion.

IN the mean time the 100K limit is prohibitive for some workflows. So at least doubling it would be helpful in many cases.

16

This video was just posted. It shows off how simple it is to put together a PBR material in Modo and export it directly into Unreal or Unity.
This is something I hope Blender can try to achieve in a similar fashion.

17

Yeah me too, exporting the FBX from blender already works, what is left is that Unreal plugin, and able to export materials in an XML file. Already all that could piggy back on the Modo plugin for Unreal. I dunno if that is proprietary or if it’s in Unreals source code on github.

Anyways that’s the small step that could be achieved today, but the big step for blender would be that OpenGL viewport overhaul, and have PBR materials that are node based so we could go ahead and make a Unity_Material, and a Unreal_Material. But that is all in the future, I don’t know how it’s even going. Seen some tweets, and even an awesome version of blender with pbr viewport that mimiced cycles materials really good.

18

Just an update if anyone has been holding out or is showing interest in the Indie version.
Today at 9:45am pst, Modo 10.0v1 Indie launched on steam. Free update for those who already have it. As low as $9 month for those who might want to rent it, and a combo perpetual license deal for around $375 is available as well (Mari Indie 3.0 + Modo Indie 10.0)

Same limitations apply, mostly restricted to export limits (one object export polycount size, bakes/renders max 4k).

19

The rental deal is excellent value. Especially being able to switch it on and off depending on your siuatation. I’ve cancelled for the last few months since i’ve been busy moving, but now 10 is out I can get back into it.

The only thing that would be nice is the ability to use scripts, since there are some excellent ones around for Modo. I guess that would make the others limits easy to workaround though.

20

One of the most used scripts/plugins was the vertex normal toolkit. They have long since hired the guy who wrote it (worked at Rockstar games) and now that toolkit is a native part of modo. Other scripts have been added as native, such as the make circle and various alignment scripts. =)