The JFK conspiracy and others

Probably the most famous conpiracy, JFK’s murder is disputed among many…let’s hear what you guys think.

Heh heh, we don’t think, apparently. :stuck_out_tongue:

Except here. :stuck_out_tongue:

Personally, I couldn’t care less. (I don’t in any way, shape, or form condone it though. But he’s been dead a long time, and hypothesizing about it is something I won’t do…)

I wouldn’t mind reading what you all think though…

I’d say Oswald was the only shooter, in spite of conspiricy theorists trying to claim the shot was impossible. I’ve seen plenty of evidence to suggest that for someone with the right training (or vast amounts of beginner’s luck) the shot was entirely possible.

I have serious doubts that he acted alone, however.

Incredible how one film that completely falsifies the facts of the assasination can manage to give so much weight to conspiracy nuts who otherwise haven’t a leg to stand on. *

Really good movie, if people don’t end up using the fictional evidence in it to argue their conspiracy theories.

There is no issue with the JFK assasination. It was Oswald only, the facts are clear.


(as far as I know this is the place the “impossible shot” theory was given credence, dispite it being bollocks, and disproven using modern computer assistance)

Who cares? He’s dead. He got killed. Done. It was 42 years ago. It’s getting OLD.

I think he was the victim of a “hit” involving “shooters and a patsy.” (So was his brother.) And if no one had happened to be filming the event and managed to escape the area with the film, that’s the way that history would have been. There would have been no evidence with which to contest it.

By what means can I support my position? The simplest one: JFK’s head was, on film and in the space of less than two seconds, violently thrown both ways… first forward, slight pause, and then backward… his torso following the rest of his body, and both movements not occurring in the same line-of-motion. (This was no “involuntary muscle-snap.”) If you’ve ever shot a deer or other large game with a rifle, you’ve seen how the body-mass of the target is thrown by the bullet: it’s the same force that hits your shoulder as recoil, but it spreads out over a larger area. Every marksman knows that the entry wound of a shot is small; the exit wound is large. If you shoot a solid object (try it with a pumpkin or a gourd … it’s about the right density), you cannot make a chunk of it “blow out” anywhere but on the exit side. The tissue on the entry-side is broken only by the bullet, but the tissue on the exit-side is also affected by a pressure wave eminating from the impact point. Newton’s Laws of Motion: the impact of the bullet creates a pressure wave in the same direction as the bullet, never the reverse. Ergo: The fatal shot had to come from the front, at an angle equal to that of the (ugh…) spray, which means that Oswald didn’t fire it. The only place where that particular shot could have come from is the “grassy knoll.” That’s not “conspiracy.” It’s just physics.

Also, it’s an axiom that, usually, the simplest explanation that will adequately explain the observations is the best one. Unless you want to believe that “only Oswald did it,” and therefore concoct a scenario by which that could be “explained,” this is simply not the simplest explanation available. It runs contrary to what your own two eyes and common-sense plainly tell you when you see the clip. Even if you manage to establish that the probability of your scenario is non-zero, it remains “highly improbable,” and the alternatives, very compelling.

I don’t think you need to “reduce the probability of all other possibilities to zero-point-zero-zero” to know d*mn well what actually happened there, and why…

The poor Pres made one-too-many enemies, probably within his own ranks, and died in a right-hand-man coup d’etat. In Dallas, no less: Johnson’s home state. Secondary target = the Governor, also an enemy of Johnson’s, “but don’t hit Jackie.” Johnson had accompanied him, which the Veep almost never does for obvious security reasons, flew home with Kennedy’s body and promptly dumped JFK’s personal belongings onto the back porch. The American people got to watch an elaborate “funeral show,” and the existence of the Film would not be known for some time.

The Europeans instantly knew what had happened: they called it “a coup” the next morning! It was just another example of the Americans somehow believing that “such a thing cannot happen here.” %| And concocting endless stories to “prove” it.


It isn’t physics, it’s bollocks.

Ballistics is a very difficult and non-linear subject. Simple N2L doesn’t apply when the object hit consists of multiple components which can deform in a multitude of different ways, and the bullet is rifled so it spins. Bullets can bounce off bone, or mearly rifle their way to a different exit point from the expected one

That’s why the MoD in England shoot thousands of rounds into pigs. Because they need to see what happens when bullets hit targets. The can’t apply simple physics, the situation is too complex (also pig’s have a flesh compostion very close to that of humans).

So, “it must be true, common sense says so” doesn’t work. Just 'cause some conspiracy nut who has shot a few deer in his time says so doesn’t mean it is true.

Side note - A PUMPKIN is about the right DENSITY What about composition? Bone isn’t contained in pumpkin if I remember right. Plus pupkin isn’t attached to a live body with a nervous system that can react after death.

Making blanket statements like the ones you have is very silly.


im going to agree to with sundial.

ajc, that movie is wonderful, everyone should watch it, its a very interesting and compelling movie.

All of the statements that costner presented may not all be true, but it had very very strong evidence.

Of course its all point of view.

HAVE you seen the magic bullet theory? Its complete garbage, seems to defy all physics, but i guess not…

here it is in all its glory (these two sites, are just drawings)

a good read and another compelling pic

Here is something to contradict what i and sundance, and the similary conspiracies, breaking down how the movie, showing the president getting shot, was hoaxed, and fake.

please note that this site is highly graphic, showing how the president is getting shot in video.

You do know that the “evidence” in the movie is invented, and is actually completely false, right?

The “magic bullet” is created by using incorrect positions for the people in the car. The director has said this himself…


Prove my first point why don’t you.

To re-itterate: The movie is a work of fiction blended with a smattering of fact, it is designed to make you think, but is ACTUALLY NOT TRUE FOR LARGE PARTS.

(Thanks Artaures, thank goodness someone doesn’t take a film as gospel)


It isn’t a “silly blanket statement.” It’s right there on the film for anyone and everyone to see, gruesome though it is.

A spray of bloody gore, including a very large chunk of cranium, is not the result of a bullet “bouncing off a bone.” Period, finito, end-of-sentence. Can’t be done. Let’s go deer-hunting together, and if you can do it you can have the whole beast. A high-powered bullet smashing into a bone is going to demolish whatever it hits and keep right on going, in a straight line, which it visibly did. That’s why there’s a “right way” and a “wrong way” to shoot a deer, especially if you want a trophy or a clean hide. You cannot have a bullet entering over a man’s shoulder, “bouncing off a bone” without losing its force, and, microseconds later, utterly blasting out the rear side of his head and ejecting his brains in the same direction. As I said and as I maintain: that’s physics.

Meanwhile, what simpler, obvious theory does match exactly with what we observe? Of course. Witnesses on the ground heard gunshots! Where? Behind them. Where does the film most logically suggest that the shots should have come from? Again, behind them, in about the same area. The simplest, most probable scenario which is most consistent with the observable facts, is probably correct.

As I said, you do not have to reduce the probability of your “alternate theory” to zero-point-zero-zero in order to demonstrate that it is undoubtedly false, and the fact that it remains nonzero certainly does not prove that it is true. Which of the various competing theories is both the simplest one, sufficient to explain the observations, and the most probable by far? A classic “hit,” carried out by several experienced gunmen and covered up by men in high places. For a professional sniper, this is a simple job. We’ve got a Patsy (stupid git…) to take the fall, and a second hit-man … a man with a debt to pay … to make sure Patsy doesn’t talk and to do it on TV, thus satiating the blood-lust of the nation. “We found him, he’s the one who did it, and blam! he got what was comin’ to him!” Exactly what John Q. Public wanted to see and to believe.

The fact that several official committees twice took great pains to declare otherwise … many years apart … means, purely and simply, that they (still) have something to conceal. Mainly, to admit that a bloody coup d’etat could, and did, occur in the United States of America. This is not “conspiracy theory” or “bollocks,” just simple matter-of-fact observation.

As the original movie suggests, treat it like a crime-scene investigation: “Who had the means to do it, and the motive, and the means to cover it up?” That’s your prime suspect, and his name is Lyndon B. Johnson. It makes sense; it’s been done before: a “right-hand-man coup d’etat,” Texas style. First guy missed; second guy didn’t; one separate shot hit the Governor; Jackie’s reach for JFK’s cranium blocked the second shot that would have taken him out. Old Joe Kennedy’s first son is out of the way, and when his little brother doesn’t take the hint we get him too. Third son, Teddy, did take the hint… dropped his Presidential ambitions like a hot rock. Grandson was a stupid fool of a wannabe bush-pilot who managed to kill himself.

I watched that footage over and over again, and Kennedy’s head first moves forward on impact, then backwards as the front of his head gets blown off. I’m not sure you watched the film all that carefully because you said the spray comes from the back of his head, when it’s very clearly from the front. This is consistant with a bullet making a small entry wound in the back of his head, pushing it forward, then the bullet blowing his head apart leaving a huge exit wound to the front, the force of which propells his head back. To me this looks pretty much like what you should expect if the guy was shot from behind.

Oswald was the only shooter that day. We shall never know if he was working under orders from someone or was just a lone nutter because he himself was assassinated before he could testify, but the fact he was assassinated before he could testify is very suspect if you ask me.

there will and always be two sides to the story, and i dont think this conspiracy will ever be concluded, and its too bad.

JFK went back in time from an alternate reality and shot himself to change the timeline. Haven’t any of you guys heard of Red Dwarf?! :stuck_out_tongue:

Keith. 8)


'nuff said

Might of missed this being said earlier, but in Mythbusters, they accurately recreated it, and managed to reproduce the ‘magic shot’ down to hitting the wrist. They used cast human bones, organs, and veins inside of ballistics gelatin, and the ‘body’ even was flung in the same direction as in the video. It was a while ago since I saw it last, but I think they deduced that it bounced off some bones.

If you do not believe MythBusters to be a credible source of information, you have obviously never watched the show.

C’mon… which way did Jackie reach, to keep that chunk of bone from falling off the car? This is not rocket science.

There were quite obviously two impacts: one hits his neck, throws him forward and to the left, he clutches for his throat and ka-blam! the second one throws him … which way? Yes, backwards. His whole body, thrown, with considerable force. He bounces off the upholstery and falls over dead. A moment later Jackie reaches … backwards … to get a chunk of head-bone from the … back … of the car. You can (ugh…) see it flying through the air.

No, you cannot fire a shot that will hit the back of a man’s head and cause ejecta to come out in the same direction. Maybe with a .22, which for example in Bobby’s case didn’t even come out of the head when fired point-blank from the back… yes, the back… of the head. (That’s why the .22 is called the assassin’s bullet… rattles around inside, turning the brain to jell-o, never leaves a mess on the carpet.) But… not with a 30-06 Magnum in a sabot-shot. That sucker is simply not going to “bounce off” one bone, reverse direction(!), and then blast the hell out of another bone and send a very substantial chunk flying for nearly a yard. No, nicht, nyet.

If a bullet like that had hit him from behind, striking the head instead of slipping through the neck, it would have thrown him … you guessed it, violently forward. The chaffeur would have gotten a new hairpiece. Just consider how much force the first shot had, given that it only clipped him through the trachea? What if it had connected?

Oh, as the apologists and myth-busters and Warren commissions and Ford commissions may say otherwise … perhaps theoretically you can figure out an alternate scenario “with a not-zero-point-zero-zero probability” if you work at it hard enough, but … what is the simplest, most plausible explanation of what you saw, and what the witnesses heard? A classic hit; several gunmen; a patsy; a silencer; a cover-up; crudely doctored photographs; the whole bit. A coup d’etat.

You will never be able to “prove” it, in the sense of reducing the probability of all competing arguments to zero. Much of the information was successfully destroyed. Many of the people who have a vested interest in the “official” outcome are still in power, or still alive. They have sealed the records… maybe in your old age you will finally know what they know today.

The poor, stupid git… Maybe he thought he was gonna get to do something big. But I’d say the odds are pretty good that he was in the lunch-room. Or he might concievably have been the guy who shot JFK in the neck. Or he might have missed altogether. Me, I’d wager he never actually fired anything at anybody.

I think he knew that he’d been set-up, though. Probably didn’t anticipate just how big it was, however, and just how insignificant he really was. Anyway, they moved him through a garage surrounded by newsmen, instead of a secure hall they could have used, and the press was there and … the photograph was just picture-perfect. Perfect for the news. It should have been the perfect bit of closure, except for that damned bit of film. They were supposed to confiscate every camera! Missed one.

Chuck Norris built a time machine and went back in time to stop the JFK assassination. As Oswald shot, Chuck met all three bullets with his beard, deflecting them. JFK’s head exploded out of sheer amazement.

I believe he was abducted and later killed by a horde of wild mutant emus coming from planet Vorton. These were ordered to come as profesionnal assassins by the Bush Family, who are in fact one of the last strain of reptilian shapeshifters governing the world since ages.

The reason: JFK had eaten lizard meat the day before his assassination. Unfortunately for him, the lizard happened to be a member of the secret society of “Rulers of the World”, hence the assasination.

As long as Oswald and others are concerned, this as been a worldwide scam. If you look carefully at this picture, you will see there are clear evidences that the so called oswald assassination picture was a modified picture from a local band created by some dude at the pentagon.
We, CG enthusiasts are not fooled by this amateur work Mr. Pentagon!

Well… more seriously. I think everybody knows JFK was shot by Walt Disney because he dared say Mikey Mouse had a stupid and girly voice. Later Disney shot Oswald because he thought Goofy was a drug addicted hippie.

Yours confidently,