So I come back after 7 months from starting this topic (Sorry life happened and forgot about the whole thing) but seems like there is a lot of people who are still discussing the subject… good thing there was a lot of ideas and propositions and others went off subject like things related to games etc…but it’s all good.
Sorry again for not answering people’s questions about my struggle with Blender’s anim system.
So that’s where this all came from ! Hm yes, pose-space deformation is built in Blender. Triggering the deformation then is just a matter of combining the right variables in the right expression, with some simple combinatory logic…
Would be cool to have something like Maya’s pose editor and shape editor. The functionality is all there, but it could be more streamlined than the current driver workflow, and way more powerful due to complex variables. I guess it’s going to be somewhat more streamlined when it’s node based, but for PSDs it’d be more handy to have a part in the user interface which is easy to access… I remember a character on a recent show, had 600-700 corrective shapes for just the neck.
About that - and relating to @Indy_logic’s remark about set driven keys as well - there’s a recent commit that makes simple driver creation simpler : Alexander Gavrilov added an option to right-click menu that copies another property as driver (kind of like Houdini’s “paste parameter as reference”).
Hmmm, 600-700 shapes just for the neck ? What the hell ! That neck must have been a central part of storytelling !
That’s a step in the right direction. Set driven keys is still a bit more intuitive and flexible though, you can make non linear drivers without ever touching a driver editor.
The face had ten times as many, and that’s without split’s. I wonder how Blender would hold up, I tried it with a couple hundred shape keys but without a good way to organize them and visualize combination and inbetween shapes it’s not usable for things like this at the moment.
I think its doable using curve objects and scene handlers, not sure if easy tho.
I’m a bit worried about dependency issues in a case using curves, it would need to work back and forth - controlling a bone and having an impact on the curve, and controlling the curve having an impact in the bone. I guess there could be a copy of the curve involved, visibility depending on the selection type… not sure. I’m curious what they come up with.
Scene handlers are python functions that you can set to run every time the scene changes, they could both convert keyframes to a curve object and if you change the curve object other handler would run copying the curve to the keyframes.
I think both graph editor and curve objects use the same Bezier formula, so they should be compatible.
there would be no dependency issues because we woudn’t be using drivers or constraints, it would be as if the curve never existed.
Ah, got you. Yes, makes perfect sense like that.
Yes, Absolutely. It can be made super easily with a similar interface.
There’s actually an addon. Maybe not entirely easy to set up but at least it’s better:
Of course it’s not 2.8 compatible. 
But it’s a good prototype for how it might work. However, the real power of Maya’s Set Driven Key is how you can set multiple keys and reactions to those keys similar to the action constraint.
I guess what I really want is an action constraint that allows you to create the action and reaction in the same constraint panel. Just all contained in one. Like, set key for base state, move the driver and then move the driven (or move the slider as is the case with shape keys) and hit a set key button, then move the diver and driven again and key as many times as you like. As you move the driver, the driven moves with it right away.
Another good example is Modo’s Relationship Constraint:
I can imagine the UI of a “Driver constraint” looking exactly like this. I would be perfectly happy.
Yes it is 
Not the literal exact link you posted but only in the sense that BlenderArtists doesn’t have a place to talking about Game Engine stuff.
In Maya you have the character set and sub set which allows you to transfer animation of the whole body of any set you make, you can key those sets on the fly just by selecting them from a drop-down menu under the timeline, and you can combine animation clips of those sets, granted Maya’s Trax Editor is awful, but now there is the Time Editor which is way better you can add layers of tweaks on top of blended animation clips and more.
I like the concept of the armature system’s encapsulation matter but as was discussed in the link I added in my first post, the armature needs to improve to allow more fluid less constrained interaction with props.
The rigs in blender are riddled with constraints and rigging bones to bones that’s completely not a good idea in my opinion.
People should not be afraid of change if it makes life easier and better, look how blender changed for the better although a lot of people were pessimist about a lot of things, sometimes people don’t realize that there are better ways to doing things.
Ton himself said that the animation system in blender is from the nineties and it should change, we should see node based rigging with unlimited potential, maybe new bones, better skinning tools, better NLA, etc…
Embrace change if it’s for the good my friend that’s how Blender will become the future of 3d animation.
Ahhhh… What? The addon that I posted about is not compatible with 2.8. Meaning, It hasn’t been ported to Blender 2.8 yet so it’s not compatible. I don’t know what your talking about with Game Engine stuff.
Yes, you can use Character sets. But have you ever worked anywhere where they use them? I don’t remember off the top of my head because it’s been way to long but I do remember there was an issue with them when I was working at a game company years ago.
You’re right that that’s an issue, but that’s just a matter of making a better constraint that actually works to solve that issue.
If you’re referring to Rigify, yes. That’s totally true. But I think the guy who built it back then was previously a Maya rigger and loved all the crazy tweaky little things you do in that program. Otherwise, I don’t know what you’re talking about.
Blender has one tool that no other program has that drops your bone count drastically: Bendy Bones. Even if you are building rigs for non-cartoon characters, you should still be using them for the simple fact that they can distribute the twist all the way down the arm/leg/neck/spine naturally.
Normally, in Maya you need to set up a flexi line or ribbon spline (edit: I meant a ribbon with joints constrained to follicles etc.) and use tones of constraints with tons of bones for each joint in your system that twists. In Blender, it’s just some settings in the bone. All bones can automatically distribute the twist naturally down it’s length. This to me is a game changer and one of the main reasons I love Blender.
Honestly, I’ve used Maya for years and years. It has everything but the kitchen sink but to me it’s the difference between punting an engine into a clutch and then into the wheels as opposed to having to start by building an entire engine on your own. Yes, you can build that engine up if you are super skilled but for someone who just want’s the car to go, it’s a nightmare.
EDIT: lots of typos noticed months later. 
This is from the “Easy Rigging” presentation from Daniel M. Lara. On the right you can see the Maya style “kitchen sink” rig. But on the Left, you can see how much more efficient Bendy Bones are. Far less bones means the rig will behave faster and the animator can work more efficiently.
well I am a professional animator and wherever I went character sets are always used to transfer animation clips and blend them, issues with them arise when people start messing with the sets. I can’t animate without having character sets, you can add and delete any controller or property from the set very easily, when you create a character set you can choose what to key (location, rotation, scale, dynamics, and custom porperties). while a set is active you only see and edit it’s keys on the timeline which is very useful.
while on the subject I want to know whats the alternative of character sets in blender other than key sets
because they never work for me.
No you have BlenRig which is worse than Rigify complexity wise.
Don’t get me wrong I am not saying that Blender should be more like Maya, but I am pointing to things that should improve or change, the bendy bones are a big step forward but they are not the solution to everything.
Honestly you lost me here, cant understand what you mean, you must be a close friend of Flint’s father from: “Cloudy with a chance of meatballs” movie 
Anyway the future will bring only good things for Blender animation system and I hope for some innovative out of the box features.
This forum shows nothing about say, Support or Python/Addons releases and etc…
To say Blenderartists doesn’t have a place for that stuff, is the same way how you’re saying that linked addon has not been updated to 2.8.
YES, this specific Blenderartists section doesn’t have Python/Support/etc, and YES, that specific github link does not have a 2.8 compatible version of the addon. BUT, that claim is only partially true, from a narrow standpoint.
It is a fact that Blenderartists has a section for those things.
It is equally a fact that the driver addon linked, has a 2.8 version.
Just like if someone linked you to one specific section of Blenderartists, you would have to learn how to navigate to the other categories.
You linked to the page for the addon, now you just need to learn how to navigate to the 2.8 version.
Which does exist.
I made tweaks to my version (in 2.79x).
I had “considered” porting it to 2.8 but before I bothered with that, I just went to confirm one didn’t already exist, which it did, so I just compared my changes to their 2.7 version, then redid them in their 2.8 version.
Easy Rigging is something to improve upon in my opinion. Such a great concept, it just needs more refinement, like a way to create bendy bones’ controls without too much clicks. It could be a real game changer on the way of rigging and animating.
I always thought these guys were on the right track for rigging. Sadly they chose Modo for their host application:
https://www.psoft.co.jp/en/product/cbox/
Instead of being rude how about you just provide a link to it?
I did in fact, look to see if there was a 2.8 version and as far as I could tell, there wasn’t one. If you click on Andreas github profile it shows his other projects. This is actually how I got the link to the 2.7 version in the first place. It hasn’t been updated in 11 month so yes, it appears it hasn’t been updated to 2.8. Now, if you know how to get to the 2.8 version, please let us know.
