The Threat of a Nuclear War

You have a point about China, IMO, if they were attacked or decided to become aggressive on anything more than the small countries around them that they’ve already annexed, they would be a huge danger. Exploding in population, extremely productive, massive industrial capacity, and recently they’ve started inching toward USA capability in their military tech. Even though it’s still inferior tech, the numbers mean more than anything.

Beside that, they are brainwashed to the max. The internet is filtered (and done by major search engines), their media is state controlled, and they don’t have independent schools. I’ve never actually met a person from China who had anything bad to say about their country, wheris if you asked most free countries people would be patriotic but still point out major flaws within their own system (as there are in any system). That scares me, personally.

The bombing of Japan was before the dangers of radiation was realized, after it was realized they decided never to use those bombs again.
About that I think their filtering of the internet and other areas that could contain offensive content is genious. Doing that to protect future generations would make the world a better place to live.

[quote=“Kansas_15”][quote=“NQE1”]

About that I think their filtering of the internet and other areas that could contain offensive content is genious. Doing that to protect future generations would make the world a better place to live.

I’m sorry but I dont agree with that at all, freedom of speech and access of information is as important as the air we breathe. Unless you prefer to live in world where ignorance is bliss.

Full freedom of speech and expression is stupid. We could prevent a lot of problems if they never made it full.

So it’s OK to let governments prostitute humanity, use and abuse thier people, blind them from the truth and expect them to just shut up and be happy about it. without freedom of speech how would minorities get thier say, so I suppose you would like the idea of racism, because why bother attempting to speak out about racism, toture, slavery, corruption, illegal militant operations or any other major problem becuase as you say ‘you don’t need freedom of speech, it dosn’t help’…sorry but what you are saying is bulls@*t.

Research is a wonderful thing. It allows us to see both sides of the arguement. In theory, everyone is right, but thanks to those nutty Greeks (souvlaki, anyone?) we have Logic, Pathos, Retoric, and a structure for arguement.

If so, then why attack the World Trade Center? Why not a football stadium, where you could get more kills probably more easily? The World Trade Center was an internationall office, and I remember hearing that a great deal of the people who were killed there were not actually American.
Or perhaps not. I’ll have to do some research on that. . .

For that matter: Trust nothing I say until I do more research.

The attack on the world trade centre was Symbolic. I trust if Superbowl was a bigger influence than international trade, the attackers would have hit a football stadium on Superbowl Sunday. Like I said: the terrorists in question are against the Western world because they hold the US and their allies responsible for displacing a people from their homeland.

I trust what you say, dude! It comes from the right place. IMO, nobody would vote for Bush if they didn’t think he was right. It’s a big-ass world, and opinions are like assholes: everybody’s got one. :smiley:

I actually like Bush, though. . .I mean, I live near a nice news-talk radio station where the people are kind enough to not have giant egos and extreme liberal biases coughdanrathercough. . .so I get a different picture. . .

I’m an Aussie, so you’ve got a better picture being closer, prolly.

Wouldn’t work. He would still be impeached within minutes, so Congress could try him for treason quicker
Well, like him or loath him, I still think his actions (or rather the actions of his administration) are questionable, and if other world leaders can be held for crimes against humanity, he should not be immune.

But back to the topic!

Of course, charts and economic projections aren’t everything. Even given that, there are other patterns. Why did China fall behind the West? one argument is that it was too good, too early in its history, it was precocious. They were so far advanced past anything in the west, (seriously, the chinese fleet was several times larger than the entire continent of Europe would see for centuries, and their ships at least three times as large. If they had wanted, they could have easily expanded and dominated the West). However, being so far advanced, it decided it needed nothing from the World and was content where it was. The entire fleet I just mentioned, poised to spread out over the world, was grounded and dismantled. china turned inwards, and thus it fell behind.
We can actually see some of those same patterns happening in the US. Only 200-300 years after its creation, it has risen to global dominance. Looking around though (I live in the US), its really easy to see that same subconscious arrogance though. Most in the US don’t know squat about other countries and global issues, some don’t care too (not everyone is like this obviously, but a lot are).

Jeez, zdk1, could you stop making so much sense? It’s hard to debunk anything you say, you party pooper! lol! I do believe you have a point: rising world powers could be a threat bigger than the US. My reasoning is motive. On the subject of China, am reading a really interesting book called “1421 - the year China discovered the world”. It’s all about how the Chinese circumnavigated the globe 78 years before Columbus and Magellan, and even discovered australia 300 years before James Cook. Unfortunately, most of the records pertaining to this were distroyed when China wanted to rewrite ints own world history without the rest of the world. (or something like that, could be wrong on motive). Asian nations have always been far in advance of Western nations, technologically, so this does lend some credibility to your arguement.

I disagree, but if that’s the way you want to live, shut up. :stuck_out_tongue:

Haha nice twist of irony there a ‘kansas’, now maybe you see what shbaz and I are on about.

About china and world domination it’s entirely true that china was the most advanced country in the old world being the first to use clocks, rockets, and coal for fire and many other stuff and could truly have expanded well beyond where they decided to build their great wall. But instead they didn’t and other countries walked over them. Right now the mos advanced country is here, the US and has made a lot and quick progress since George washington and could cream the world if we wanted to. But unlike other countries empire building isn’t and wasn’t our goal. For example, we took areas like the phillipines to prevent them from being colonialized by european powers back in the 1800’s.

HAHAHA Kansas that is the biggest load of crap and you don’t even realize it.

If empire building wasn’t our goal, then why did we take the Phillipines? We weren’t keeping them from being colonized, it was colonized and it was property of Spain. Empire building was the goal and any decent American History book will blatantly point this out. Read the chapter on Manifest Destiny. If empire building wasn’t the goal, then we would have liberated them and left them with their OWN government. Such is also the case with Iraq… except they’re going to be taken over by American oil companies.

Once again, we can’t cream the world. No matter how much technology we have, the world outnumbers us. Why don’t you go try to eliminate a fire ant hill with your bare hands and find out the hard way?

sigh…I see kansas is becoming more self deluded.

:o Jeez, are you really from Kansas, not Nebraska? How about Nicaragua, Honduras, Grenada, Guam and all the Pacific “Protectorates”, Angola, Congo, and Guantanamo??? And how about all the countries that the US has “invaded” economically with the world bank and IMF, destroying civilizations and cultures that are (were) a hundred times older than it, forcing dependance on an oil-based economy and a manufacturing-based commerce.

And which country has China ever invaded? Keeping in mind of course that Hong Kong, Tiawan and Tibet have always been considered by China to be part of the mainland since long before the commies took over. No, better still, which country has China ever, no matter how fleetingly, even considered invading?

It’s this “heartland”, bible belt, ignorant paranoia that gives the likes of bush any credence at all and spurs them on with the blind moral conviction that they’re right.

%<

Now, now, peoples, we’re all animators here… I think. FYI, found this link. Am suprised it’s from the Fox News website, but it’s a summary ofthe Bush/Kerry debate.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,134151,00.html

Have a look at what Bush replied to in regards to a question on pre-emptive strikes:

Asked whether he believes the president of the United States should have the authority to launch preemptive strikes if he sees a threat to national security, the senator said yes, “but if and when you do it, Jim, you’ve got to do it in a way that passes the test, passes the global test where your countrymen, your people, understand fully whey you’re doing what you’re doing and you can prove it with legitimate reasons.”

Bush took issue with that, saying the United States shouldn’t have to pass any “global test” and get approval to protect itself.

“You take preemptive action to protect the American people and that you act to make this nation more secure,” the president said.

The history books also say that the U.S. imperilism era ended a century ago! The Phillipinees situation isn’t something I knew squat about, though.

Such is also the case with Iraq… except they’re going to be taken over by American oil companies.

Oh, come on, you know that’s now true. And even if it was: Let’s, say we ask an Iraqi:

>>Guy: Iraqy, would you rather have Suddam Hussain who never, ever
>>spent a dime of his oil money on helping you despite UN attempts to get
>>him to do so? Or [whatever you think is going to happen]?

What do you think he would say?

BUT, that is not the case. Havn’t you heard the news of politicians who are mad because we are not taking advantage of Iraq’s oil supply? Everyone expected us to take advantage of Iraqi oil and lower the price of oil, but right now it’s gone up.

Once again, we can’t cream the world. No matter how much technology we have, the world outnumbers us. Why don’t you go try to eliminate a fire ant hill with your bare hands and find out the hard way?

Your right, but not necassarily because of military might (we certainly have the military power to do some major damage). The U.S. could never “cream” the world, because quite simply the political structure of our country would not allow us. Such an attempt to do something like that could end in civil war, and then WE would be the ones getting creamed.

joeedh

100% correct. You never ever risk your country to look good. The U.S.'s sheer size is the only thing that allows us to make mistakes like that.

:expressionless: Ehhh. . .although I guess in your post you didn’t take sides. . .

joeedh

But the terrorists are still deeply evil people (at least their leaders).

joeedh

Evil comes in many flavours… just not double-choco-choc-chip.

100% correct. You never ever risk your country to look good. The U.S.'s sheer size is the only thing that allows us to make mistakes like that.

Ehhh. . .although I guess in your post you didn’t take sides. . .

No, one one hand, I thought it was obvious: GW Bush said it all. If he’s not going to care what the world thinks of his actions, is is not being that clever. The word for that is arrogance, and that is what is going to lead somebody somwhere to push the Big Red Button with the N word on it.

On the other hand: I don’t like taking sides, but I do have a bias. The point is that I have an opinion, and I am merely providing proof to back that up, joeedh. You can refute it at any time.

As for terrorist intentions: yes, they are scary, but not evil. Evil is a hard word to define. I am scared that my train will have a bomb on it and it will go off while I am going home of an evening. Why? Because a terrorist does not act against me: He acts against what I represent. I can represent Australia; Western democracy; White anglo-saxon male; Heterosexual; All people named Paul, etc. And if somebody with a bomb and a chip on his shoulder has a problem with any of those things, I become a target for a potential terrorist act. See what I am saying?

On the other hand, to attack a country on the basis that they will attack you if you don’t do it first is also scary - but would you call it evil? What if your attack kills innocents? There is a phrase for that to make it sound less nasty: Colateral damage. A bombing of an embassy can be seen as a terrorist act - if you are the target, and the people who die can be seen as colateral damage. It is all a matter of which side you stand on.

If you want an opinion, I’ll give you one: Killing is bad. Period. No matter who pushes the button, if people die, it’s tragic.

Wait a minute… did I just grow an extra hand in all that? Well bang my heads together and call me Zaphod.

The word there is self-defense. It isn’t arrogant to save lives, of which the U.S. has saved MILLIONS of Iraqi and Afganishtani.

Preemptive strikes are really the same thing. By aiding terrorists Suddam WAS attacking US (lol, another two-way-er :slight_smile: ) and we defended ourselves. And since then, a lot of countries are now actively going on the offense against terrorism, even places like Pakistan that used to help them.

The world isn’t a nice place where people will kindly talk about their conflicts. No, no, no, never ever believe that. The 9/11 attacks might have been prevented if not for THAT attitude.

On the other hand: I don’t like taking sides, but I do have a bias. The point is that I have an opinion, and I am merely providing proof to back that up, joeedh. You can refute it at any time.

Of course. That’s the basis of freedom os speech.

As for terrorist intentions: yes, they are scary, but not evil. Evil is a hard word to define. I am scared that my train will have a bomb on it and it will go off while I am going home of an evening. Why? Because a terrorist does not act against me: He acts against what I represent. I can represent Australia; Western democracy; White anglo-saxon male; Heterosexual; All people named Paul, etc. And if somebody with a bomb and a chip on his shoulder has a problem with any of those things, I become a target for a potential terrorist act. See what I am saying?

No, no. Terrorist Are Evil Beings. They Kill CHILDREN, man! I mean, please FACE REALITY! They are evil. Sorry. All those children being killed reallly DISTRUBED ME.

On the other hand, to attack a country on the basis that they will attack you if you don’t do it first is also scary - but would you call it evil? What if your attack kills innocents? There is a phrase for that to make it sound less nasty: Colateral damage. A bombing of an embassy can be seen as a terrorist act - if you are the target, and the people who die can be seen as colateral damage. It is all a matter of which side you stand on.

If you want an opinion, I’ll give you one: Killing is bad. Period. No matter who pushes the button, if people die, it’s tragic.

Then you live in a fantasy world. Try applying your logic to Hitler. “Killing is bad, tragic”–but not evil? Murder is acceptable depending on your point of view?

Do you suggest that we, the U.S. who arrogantly call ourselves Americans, should just not care if thousands of us are killed? Do we deserve death? Do little children deserve to die because their country is allies with the U.S.? Is it a crime to be born into a Western country?

joeedh

http://slate.msn.com/id/2091531/

again more to add to my argument that the US will be the next nuclear war nation.

Low yield nukes are the scariest thing in the world, as they “blur the line between nuclear, and conventional warfare”

Alltaken

The history books also say that the U.S. imperilism era ended a century ago! The Phillipinees situation isn’t something I knew squat about, though.
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The Spanish-American war was over a century ago, after which we took a few places, not just the Phillipines. After that, the imperialist idea shifted to economic rather than direct control. The Dominican Republic, for example, relies on an American banana company for over 90% of its gross national product and most of its workers are employed there. Do you think that they can do anything that this American banana company is against, considering the massive dependence? In Iraq, the only thing that they have a chance with in international trade is their oil. We’ll see in time how that works out, I guess. The US gov isn’t paying for the drilling equipment they need to evade claims that it was a war for oil though.