The truth?


(Haunted-House) #1

I dont mean to offend anyone just curiose…
What do you think? :-?

I’m actually American so dont tell me that I’m just green with envy of the U.S like the U.S politcians always say other countries are!
I’m proud of the American people but not our goverment!


(Nayman) #2

I don’t thinkt he U.S. government is always blamless… infact, most of the time, they are FUBAR.

However, 9-11 was a real tragedy, and all signs point towards someone else.

It ould not have been osama bin laden, who knows. But I honestly don’t think it was the american government. While the military budget may have increased, there dollar is going down and the ruined almos tthe entire financial district of new york, henceforth… why do it?

It was the sinlg emost horrible thing to happen during my life time, and hopefully, it’ll stay that way.


(fullback) #3

I second that.

In regards to the larger conspiracy theory:

Let’s remember for a moment that GWB is supposed to be an idiot and had been in office for less than 9 months at the time of the attack. For someone like him to orchestrate and carry out such a complicated scheme, successfully, in such a short time, there needs to have been divine intervention of some sort.

There would have been too many people in on it, too many documents floating around, and too many people with concience problems for it to work. Also, the American and European press corp (both very left wing) would have had to look the other way. Not likely given their distaste for Bush, the military, and big oil interests. All those rabid conservatives in Hollywood would have had to contribute the time and skill to fake those videos — again not likely. The CIA, which had been gutted by the Clinton administration, needed a perfect operation. Given their track record over the last 20 years, this is also difficult to swallow. There would be too many loose ends and too much hard evidence if the US gov had concocted this.

I find it much easier to believe that the attack was carried out by Bin Laden’s minions. He had the time, money, motivation, and intelligence to devise and execute the hijackings. And remember, these people don’t care whether they die and they don’t care who they kill. That is a big advantage. I don’t think government employees willing to commit suicide are the norm so…

As bad as many people think George Bush is, I find it hard to believe anyone thinks he is a homicidal maniac with the skill and intellect to pull this one off.


(Haunted-House) #4

As bad as many people think George Bush is, I find it hard to believe anyone thinks he is a homicidal maniac with the skill and intellect to pull this one off.

Of course not he’s just there too look at, a puppet that is manipulated, told what to do and say.


(acasto) #5

Ockham’s Razor


(Haunted-House) #6

:-? ???


(Haunted-House) #7

Oh, here:
Ockham’s razor: a scientific and philosophic rule that entities should not be multiplied unnecessarily which is interpreted as requiring that the simplest of competing theories be preferred to the more complex or that explanations of unknown phenomena be sought first in terms of known quantities

Acasto, so youre saying that you except the more common mainstream explanation?


(Goo) #8

I personally find it hard to believe that the U.S. would actually carry out an attack to this extream. I wouldn’t put it past them to plan an attack that would damage the World Trade Center, but I don’t think they’d destroy them. They were too important to be totally destroyed. I’d expect more of an attack on an ally if they seriously wanted to do something like this. If done properly it would be very hard to trace and would yield the same results. I do believe that this was Osamas work though.

Goo


(fullback) #9

Lagan, I don’t speak for acasto but the razor theory works well. Put simply, “the easiest explanation is often the truth”. What is more likely? A giant multi-beaurocratic conspiracy within the US government (that managed to keep everything quiet), or some well motivated terrorists who had access to a lot of money and took advantage of the freedoms associated with democratic, western culture? I would think that is a no brainer.

The bit about Bush being a patsy is a bit hard to digest as well. An operation of this sort needed two things: planning and time. Since I already pointed out the relative brevity of Bush’s tenure before the attack, that leaves one other person who could have been in on the scheme. Former President, Bill Clinton. Was he in on it too? Was he manipulated by this “shadow” institution within the US government? He was the King of micromanagement (hell, the guy couldn’t take a dump without thinking about the political ramifications) so I find it hard to understand how such an operation could develop without his knowledge.

Then there is the big CIA boogyman. I just don’t understand the obsession with this “all powerful”, “unaccountable” institution. Come on, it was practically castrated during the during the 1990’s. Give me a break!

You guys have been watching too many movies.


(acasto) #10

Exactly fullback, a conspiracy theory can be made out of any situation.


(Bapsis) #11

I like everyone else, probably will never really know what is going on behind the curtains with situations like this.
As far as I can see it, i find the whole Afganistan war to be a big friggin joke. We have all these US, Canadian, British, Australian and more, all with billions of dollars of high-tech equipment and weapons, chassing a terrorist group and blowing up mountains that are “susspected hideouts”.
Who knows if we got Ossama like 4 months ago, and he’s not burried under a mountain right now.
The whole thing is just stupid, plain and simple. Which most likley will lead people to belive that there are other motives for what they are doing. I just pray for all the innocent human beings that get caught up and killed in the games “governments” play. Anywayz…

Matt

Blend on, and blend well!!!


(acasto) #12

But that’s the problem with that part of the world, what is the difference between people, and government? The people today, could very well be your enemy tommorow. I really do not feel sorry for them (children are an exception though), we are offering quite a bit of money, and still, the terrorist have a place to hide. I believe that this make them very much, part of the game!


(Dittohead) #13

If that’s joke it’s a pretty sorry one.

You don’t make jokes like that.

If yer serious you must be outa yer flippin’ mind.

Bloody anti-american.


(Dittohead) #14

Lemme guess yer one one of those sixties pot-head anarchists?


(barista) #15

While I am no fan of GWB, I don’t really think he (or the US military-industrial complex, or even the Illuminati) planned this event, I do find it interesting that it happened. Somehow, I just knew that he (GWB) would get us in a war within his first year in office. At first, it looked like he might try to take on China over the downed-spy-plane, :o :o but I guess cooler heads prevailed (on both sides) with that situation.

On the other hand, looking at his father’s example, while he may have a great approval rating now (as did GHWB during Desert Storm), 2004 is still a long way off. GHWB had the Savings and Loan crisis during his administration. GWB has Enron, WorldCom, and Arthur Anderson going belly up (most likely), and Tyco, Xerox, and a few other companies in dire fiscal straits. Martha Stewart is like the current day Leona Helmsley. Maybe history does repeat itself. Plus to top it off, Clinton has been compared to Reagan (well, in charm at least). During Reagan’s administration we had some fairly good economic times (which led to the S&L crisis). Under Clinton we had a great market (which led us to the current fiscal crisis).


(Haunted-House) #16

Societies do not usually lose their freedom at a blow. They give it up bit by bit, letting themselves be tied down with an infinity of little knots. As rules and regulations increase, their range of actions is gradually compressed. Their options slowly lessen.
Without noticing the change, they become wards of state. They imagine themselves still free, but in a thousand and one ways, their choices are limited and guided by the authorities.
And always, there are what seem to be sensible reasons for letting their autonomy be peeled away - “safety”, “health”, “social justice”, “equal opportunity.”
It is easy to become accustomed to docility. That is why eternal vigilance is the price of liberty. Not because liberty is easy to shatter. Because it can be softened and dismantled with the acquiescence of the very men and women from whom it is being stolen.

Jeff Jacoby, columnist, Boston Post.


(barista) #17

Of course, now that I think about it a bit more and put on my conspiracy-theory hat :o :

Maybe the administration knew (or suspected) something ike this would happen, and did nothing to stop it…just like the conspiracy theory regarding FDR and Pearl Harbor. Let it get bombed, and get us into a war. :x :x :x On 9/11 lots of newscasters were noting the similarities to the Pearl Harbor attack.

Hmmmm. Maybe it’s time to break out the tin-foil hat. The NSA will be reading this post, I’m sure of it. You can’t hide from Echelon or Tempest.


(Haunted-House) #18

Of course the illuminati is behind it 100%
Do some research and you will see just how many presidents/ politicians/people in high positions are joined in illumnati networks
[secret societies: freemasons, skull and bones ect…]
Bush is a skull and bone member
Owner of Wendy’s resteraunt is a freemason…the list can go on for miles.


(Bapsis) #19

If that’s joke it’s a pretty sorry one.

You don’t make jokes like that.

If yer serious you must be outa yer flippin’ mind.

Bloody anti-american.

Joke as in something that pisses me off because of the amount of innocent life lost and the high amount of stupidity of any sort of war. Joke dosent nessisarily mean funny dude, its all in the context.

And im not anti-american, im anti-retardism, i hate all retarted actions no matter what nationality.

Matt

Blend on, and blend well!!!


(Haunted-House) #20

Hmmmm. Maybe it’s time to break out the tin-foil hat. The NSA will be reading this post, I’m sure of it. You can’t hide from Echelon or Tempest.

Better watch out :-?
When you present a dissident opinion in the United States, you are subjected to criminal charges, prison, abuse, malnutrition and torture.