This hurts - give us those GPUs …

This breaks every CG artist heart ;(

Malaysian police destroys Bitcoin mining rigs …

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Those are not GPUs. Those are ASICs:

Also the way the police is handling them is extremly inefficient economically and unfriendly to the environment.
Fans should be dismantled and sold separately and so the network equipment. PCBs with the accual ASIC chips should be scrapped to recover heavy and precious metals. And the cases should be used for making malaysian hipster coffe tables that will be sold for exorbitant prices.

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Ah reading about the crack down in China and flood of GPUs I assume those were the rigs

Bitcoin can not be mined (efficiently) on GPUs.

Some other coins are mined on GPUs but the shortage was mainly due to covid related shutdowns of chip factories. Crypto bullrun was apparenrly not that important.

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Government doing stupid things again. They should of just sold it for money or use it to mine BTC and make more money , use that money to better their people, build more roads, wind farm, solar farm, etc.

The GPU shortage is not because miners are buying all the GPU, its due to a global supplychain issue with covid. All the GPUs on the market are being bought out in milliseconds by scalpers with bots. Miners don’t have access to these bot apps as they are limited in number.

GPU mining isn’t going away even after ETH switched to proof of stake, there will be other coins that we can mine(i.e. Ravencoin, ERGO).

Crypto-currency is not only bad for the environment, it is actually bad for the whole world economy. It may sound fun to make money out of nowhere, but if everyone did that, it would be a disaster.

The monetary and banking systems have a framework, which is not perfect, but at least works, has a fairly calculable logic, and connected to actual legislations, and institutions. There is political supervision (central banks), breaks, various means to control it, international treaties, the IMF, etc… and last but not least, it has actual products in it, let that be physical or virtual.

The banking system also creates money that exists only virtually, of course, that is the point of loans, insurances, etc… but it has a set of rules on how to do so as part of the economy. Crypto does not.

The last global economic crisis in 2006 happened exactly for the reason, that noone knew what goes where, how, and who is responsible for what, not keeping or irrationally easing the rules since the 80s (ending up in the dot com bubble). It was not the reptilians scheming, lol. Banks did not even know what are there assets indirectly channeled into (e.g. a US mortgage was funded by random french pensioners, ten turns later, without anyone knowing). Those were actual banks. Imagine it with crypto, that has no supervision, no government control, and no actual product it is connected to… and no means to stop it from disrupting financial systems, flooding the economy uncontrollably. Not to mention dark web and funding crime and terrorism without any trace that enforcement could use.
That is not funny at all, and noone should speculate with that.

I never really understood the whole point anyway besides trying to offer something different in contrast to banks since the banking system also comes with its own issue.

fractional reserve banking is criminal, if I did it i would be in prison but central banks can get away with it. No thank you, I’ll stick to crypto currency. I disagree with everything you said.

Humans are corruptible , Bitcoin is not , that is why we like it.

dark web and crime is a talking point, in reality cash is used for most crimes , banks get caught money laundering but no one goes to prison they just get fined. Bitcoin is semi tracible , so using it on the dark web to do shady things is stupid, use Monero instead its untracible. only a small percent of Bitcoin is used for hardcore crime, compare to cash.

What do you think is going to happen if you keep printing trillions of dollars to infinitely? :wink: history can tell you what happens…

Reading your post, tells me we are still early - no coiners are delusional/lost/ignorant as ever.

Well, there are a lot of points to mention, people study these topics for years, and it is hard to be short and comprehensive, but we should see the flaw of the basic concept.

Banks never ever had all the money that exists in a printed form. It is simply not possible. It is how the world works. The point of the banking system is to create the virtual money. Using a lot of cash has drawbacks anyways. Without this system, and the loans, people would never have homes, cars, businesses, etc… It obviously goes from loans 99,99%, who would have this money immediately?
Fractional reserve banking means, that basically the same money is lended for multiple people. The important part is there are rules, there is a backing, e.g. a mortgage, and an agreement signed, supervised by a higher legistlation, that provides consumer protection for both parties. That is why the system works. The problem is when said backing is irrational, e.g after 2006, because the rules were not kept.

Printing money is another aspect. It is a monetary tool for central banks. It does not mean you can have as much money as you want :smiley: The more money you print, the less it will worth, so it is generally not working in the long run. It is actually rather hurtful. Another solution, that is a bit more delicate, is to change the base rate by the central banks. The higher it is, the more money will go in the banks, supporting the system. Using a lot of cash is not wise, because it is not in this circulation, plus costs a lot to manage actually. These are what we call as monetary or fiscal policies, and they are very important tools in running the economy and managing crises.

So, anyways, it is a vast topic, but one thing is for sure. These systems are created by states, and international institutions, countries have their own currencies, or maybe common ones like EUR, but it has a set of rules and deffinitely needs supervision. It is very hard to see through this system, but it is at least a system. It changes as well, including its standards e.g. the end of Bretton Woods, but there are always new solutions that come up. States and international institutions have the capabilities to manage this system so it can work. “Simple” as that.

Crypto is like printing money at home, which would be illegal for various obvious reasons, but someone thinks to do it anyways, just because :smiley: like that stilized paper for boardgames, then magically, it is accepted in stores :smiley:

Where does it come from? Calculations, that either exist, or maybe not? What is the product behind it? What is the backing for that? What higher institution vouches for it? No answer for either of these questions, and until then it is only a fun for a few, but might be a headache for many.

Or I could say, think of climate change. Everyone thinks they do not make an impact locally, so they can leave a bigger ecological footprint than they should. Yet globally it leads to very dangerous results. Or think of tax evasion… If the whole world does these, it all adds up, we create climate change, plus the social systems fall as well. Seems like okay on a local level, but not so much globally.

I do not really see anything visionary in crypto. It is rather like breaking speed limits, not giving right of way, because surely noone will walk there… or tax evasion I mentioned. It is basically just trolling the existing system, and if done large scale, it can lead to serious problems.

Anyone who ever studied a bit of economy, would simply be frightened by crypto, or seeing the opportunity maybe, but needs to know this is crazy. It seems like fun now, but it is simply not how the world works or should work. And it is truly frightening how institutions have little to no control over it… I can only hope, it will not be the cradle of the next global crisis.

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Very nice post

I never heard about fractional banking before.

Honestly regrading Bitcoin mining and crypto currency I never really fully understood how it works and why transactions etc are based on very lengthy math equations making mining equipment required.

It looks complicated in the beginning but if you take the time it is not actually that hard to understand the technical aspects of it well enough to understand how it works in general.

What is more complicated and probably impossible to know are the sociological/political implications. Lets see what happens in El Salvador where it is legal tender now.

Hi, thanks, I tried to sum up my thoughts, not knowing how welcome they are :smiley: but I studied international relations and therefore economy for example, and have my doubts about crypto as a thing. I am simply very concerned.

I don’t mean to tire you, but here is some more info: fractional reserve banking you know for sure, it is only a funny word for a general practice. It means the bank is lending more money that it actually has backed. You put in 100 € and I put in 100 €. The bank has 200 €. Then we ask for loans. You get 180 and I get 180. How much money is in the economy? 360 €. How much there actually is? 200 :smiley: That is how we can have houses, investments, basically everything. It is not a problem of course, the banks must have a minimum amount of backing, government backups maybe, we have the agreement, we have backing of course otherwise we would not get the loan right? So the whole thing is fine, and actually needed for the world to work.The problem starts, when everybody comes and asks for their money the same time :smiley:
That was a thing in the Great Depression from 1929.

The 2006 crisis was different, it was not about overproduction, it was more like a crisis of trust (I mean financial trust), and some of its untangle-able aspects was actually a new thing, that is why the answers were terrible at first.

Banks were not much limited in their actions, the breaks were either eased or noone checked. They provided loans for unfinanced, uncreditable buyers as well, that got into a vicious cycle. They mixed these loans into insurances, and sold it in bouquets to other banks (so add unbacked clients to better ones, vouch for them and sell them as perfectly credible assets). If the trust disappears, so does the backing, even for those who would actually be credible. Now, imagine something like this “backed” by crypto, that does not even have any basis as a house, insurance, whatever…

What will you do to back your loans? Mine some more, lol? :smiley: Nope, nope nope nope :smiley:

Even though Wikipedia is not a “scientific source” it has pretty good factual stuff for most cases, and these infographics are pretty good actually, if you are interested, feel free to check it:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:CDO_-FCIC_and_IMF_Diagram.png
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Subprime_Crisis_Diagram
-_X1.png

Of course it went on and on and on around the globe affecting everyone more or less.

World economy produces a crisis in about every 50 years, it is like a rule of thumb. It is a process that noone can affect directly (so no reptilians caused the crisis, it appears on its own, and while some people might have speculated correctly, they only rode the waves, did not stir them). So that is why we should pay attention, and try to learn from the mistakes of the past. It is going through countries, and it is even hard for states to work together, now imagine crypto, that has no central bank to act :smiley:

So I just really hope, the next crisis we have will not be about it :smiley:

They had too. Apart from the single guy running a rig, there were lots of centers made up of hundreds, thousands rigs. That was no single man effort. It was mafia behind that.
And they were sucking up too much power, let alone government unwanted coinage.
And component shortage, of course… :slightly_frowning_face:
Big PITA, had to be removed.

Son has a point when being skeptical of the bank system.

The housing / mortgage crisis, Lehman Brothers, or CumEx tax evasion.

While with Cunard they get the people who really got punished for the housing crisis the banks and their gambling created? One even should look into how afterwards they did not take care of the foreclosure properties.

Or their simple outrages fees when transferring money between countries which is why I use Wise (formerly Transferwise) who only charges modest fees.

I also feel that the main issue is with somebody in farms generating money and it has no trace as far as I know which is why it can be used for money laundry and similar tasks.

Exactly. Banks might be stupid sometimes, but it is sure that they can be superwised, and obviously managed by central banks, or higher international legislations, etc… The Basel rules have a new generation now, with other solutions, like the European Stability Mechanism for the EU and so on… It is simply the best possible way, we need currencies, we need central banks and private ones, but we also neee supervision, then the system can work. What I see is that the world did learn from that.

So, the system is fine if run wise, and the rules are kept. Crypto that you cannot regulate and anyone can do is surely not an alternative, without any economic basis :grinning_face_with_smiling_eyes: it is like coming up with your own currency (funny, but there are ways, and you may actually do that, based on the international law :sweat_smile: but shouldnt really work large scale).

If the economy can get into crisis for the lack of trust in the banking system, guess what might happen to crypto, that is outside of all systems, without any enonomical basis. 🤷 It works as long as it does, but then what? :grin:

Crypto stuff might have their own place at a more reasonable level, like a currency for simple pay on demand kinda solution, for some people who would not like to pick a currency, so to say, looking for an alternative, but as a part of the existing systems, not as a shady alternative without any grounds.

The internet is a system that is not controlled by any government or organization, and it seems to be working pretty well. I think blockchain technologies are similar.

Oh, it (the internet) is occasionally used for criminal purposes, but no one is demanding it be shut down for that reason.