This is related to (Opensource) Computer graphics. .t3d and .unr model/map support for engine?Help?

Hi, what an annoying website this is: liked the old forums much better. Doubt this will get any play nor looks or views.

Anyway. I work on an opensource engine. I’m sure linking is not allowed here so I’ll not tell you what it is because that’s probably forbidden (ill save that for post 2). It’s 2mb big. It’s one you know. Recently we coded using .obj models as maps into the engine and game code: and obj models from various opensource games (mine test (.obj_from_mc), bzflag (.obj_from_bz)), aswell as exported from Blender.

Now: what other games thought and obj should be was different than the standard (normals were sometimes wrong, orientation was different between them (ofcourse), scale, etc, bzflag obj didn’t show up at all unless put through blender and reexported, at first. We had to do custom code to accept bzflag obj in game )

Anyway you can now map entirely in Blender, export to our game, and you’re good. Even have seperate map lists for the various different types (bsp, obj_from_mc, obj_from_bz). You can also scale it as you wish using directives in the file name. So it can account for all types.

Now … we need help, im not saying you’ll help us, or will even read this… but we like the .t3d map/model format from the old unreal editor. Lots of people still use that editor. It’s kinda like .obj, but kinda like xml. We just did some coding today and have the vertex info parsing (but that doesn’t give us surfaces etc). Anyway…

We did work to get Blender as a supported mapping platform for our opensource game (the media is opensource too), and achieved that.
Now, we’d like to add more model formats. Specifically this .t3d one. We’ve made a simple map/model and exported it from that editor, and attached them to our posts on our own project. We also found opensource ase to t3d code and opensource .unr (binary model format) viewer code. So there are examples.

We are dumb though and don’t really know 3d formats. We can hack around, write the maps by hand ourselves, all that kind of stuff. But when it comes to parsing it for this engine, though it has a nice obj importer we’ve edited and changed etc; we’re not sure of things.

Like: Why does the vertex info do nothing and you basically need a copy of the vertex info in “face” format to have anything? What was the point of v 128 209 2182 to begin with then in .obj format?
We don’t get it.

So … could you join our project and help us with more model formats? We just want .t3d for now. A “simple obj like” text format. We allready have an .obj parser (and bsp parser and all that too)
So maybe it wouldn’t be too impossible with help? We took a crack at it allready today and got some vertex info in the game from it…

Here’s our project, and our brainstorming about .t3d and we posted a 2mb of our engine code (or you can get the whole iso with the sourcecode and media): https://sourceforge.net/p/chaosesqueanthology/discussion/general/thread/72c4ff80c1/

Please help. We can’t do it ourselves. I mean… we have before… but … not like this

Can’t upload attachments :frowning:
So can’t upload the zip of the code here.

Engine code (2mb, GPL): https://sourceforge.net/p/chaosesqueanthology/discussion/general/thread/72c4ff80c1/fcdf/attachment/darkplaces_workingon_aug19_2023.zip

.td3 file examples we made: https://sourceforge.net/p/chaosesqueanthology/discussion/general/thread/72c4ff80c1/2fb2/attachment/boxsubtracted.t3d

If you’re having issues with posting code here, then it might be worth uploading to a place like GitHub, then share that URL.

Also, I’m confused. What is it that you need? Supporting exporting from Blender, or importing to your engine?

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Well we just need help. We can’t really understand the .t3d format (we’ve uploaded examples). Most of us are hackers, and not proper computer science people. We were able to support Blender as a mapping platform for this opensource game by hacking on the .obj code until it had enough extra features to be easily used for mapping (including engine and game code changes).

But going from scratch with a new format is very difficult. Like, we were looking over the .obj format and we see the same vertex information twice (for vertex, and for faces). and only when the face info is correctly parsed in the engine does a wall show up (we had to do alot of hacking for the bzflag exported obj because they weren’t “right”, we hacked the code until they showed up (had to *-1 some things etc, trial and error)). So now we have 3 obj loaders: the normal one for .obj models. Then an obj_from_mc loader which handles obj files exported from blender and minetest, and obj_from_bz loader that handles bzflag exported obj files.

So … it’s not just bsp files you can use in this engine anymore as maps: you can use ones from blender too. And it works. There are cathedrals and all that.

So now we want to try .t3d files. You guys know alot more about 3d than us tho and have made tons of importers and exporters; and you don’t have a 3d game engine anymore in the newest blender so we figured this wouldn’t be stepping on your toes; and we do now support blender exported maps for our game… so … we were just hoping

This site is not affiliated to Blender.org, there are people who have coding knowledge but most of us are users.

I am not a coder and can not help with your problem but others may be able to.

You can add links in this site but to do so you need to reach a basic level of involvement. Read a few posts, comment and give a couple of likes etc. New users have certain restrictions but it is easy to reach the basic level.

Ps

Maybe you could edit that bit out.
A simple Hi would be better.

People will read your thread and help you out of good will… If they feel like it.

2 Likes

I’m not sure if this is the best way to “introduce” someone to any community… and also:

What are you talking about in your second post and first day of visit ?? The old one was… and also:

…is one of the… most used modern forum software … (?)

You post or the website… ?? It’s only one of… are you sure you are on the correct website ??? I mean we have a coding and game engine category… but they are still mostly attached to blender and the blender game engine forks… and even questions about other engines… mostly about importing etc… are discussed here…

Anyway:…

…well… if you make up you own game engine… then something like

or the older Wavefront (OBJ) format should be no problem… or you just would have another problem in the first place…

( But then you confused already BlenderArtists with some other website ?? )

You may have had also mentioned that this was forked from Xonotic ( so maybe even someone would know the history ) and has also a GitHub page for the coders you seek ?? But then it is 3 years old (?) and has:

No description, website, or topics provided.


¯\_(ツ)_/¯

So finaly:

Good luck.

We allready can load obj files as maps: that’s what we hacked in this month: that lets you use blender as a mapping platform. Last year we added Wolfenstine:Enemy Territory bsp support too. Other formats which allready had support were: Quake3 and Quake1.

No description, website, or topics provided.

¯_(ツ)_/¯

What are you talking about?
If there was no topic provided then why did you send us a link to the .t3d specifications?

Why the “oh I can’t help” ASCII figurine right after you indeed identified the topic at hand?
Just need to throw in a dig for no reason?

We also posted the website, and a discussion topic in the second reply, so what are you talking about? Tell me: What are you talking about? You saw we were talking about .t3d map format and you, in your O_W_N reply linked to a description of the t3d format. So you obviously must know that you are simply lying when you say we didn’t provide a topic. What goes through your head? Do you forget what you just wrote, or do you just need an “ironic jab” at the end of your sentence so much?

We just want help with the .t3d format. We added other formats and want to find extra opensource devs so it wasn’t just us. In the past this is easy. Now on every website our posts are blocked and there’s no communication. It’s an ascii format so it’s not impossible.

You’re in the wrong place - while your question is 3D related, it has nothing to do with Blender.

1 Like

I didn’t found this info on sourceforge but searched for your project and found a three years old github page where the info was… that there is no more info… also on SF…

So you expect someone to download all this just to have a look? And i if you want help and if someone may want to help and have to search for this info… i just shrugged :person_shrugging:… but in ascii…

And then :

:thinking:

How could this be… ?? What ? You were blocked ? You blocked ??

Also:

I also wondered about the “difficulties” about OBJ or T3D and

Maybe it’s all about the style of communication ?? IDK… yeah and like it was said… you may be at the wrong place…

Good luck.

We posted the 2mb source code file. SF cannot be posted to this website: I get the message that “that link is not allowed”

The github page is not ours. The github was made by someone from 8chan in an effort to “steal” “our” project and “fill it with ponies”. Github doesn’t allow enough space for free users for them to upload the entire project however. Why do you criticize us for what we do not control? Please tell me in exacting detail.

What do you want us to do about it? Go and murder the guy or something? I’m sure you’ll blaim us for “not using github before that guy” or some nonsensical thing: just like you tell us “well THIS is not the place to ask for help”. Git hub is owned by microsoft: we are not using it: period: do you understand?

That’s what I mean by being blocked: by having no communication. In the past, 2001-2009, opensource forums were filled with people that wanted to band together to build the whole opensource ecosystem. Now it is filled with gatekeepers. No place is “the right place” because everything is censored or controlled: or filled with /users/ who don’t want to do anything or who just want to “get a job” (as if they actually pay money (no they don’t: research what money was originally used for at the very begining))

Anyway we’ve been using blender years longer than you and remember the funding drive to opensource it to begin with: so don’t try to pull rank by that either.
I’ll try to put the links in a separate post.

We do not use git hub.
2mb source code: https://sourceforge.net/p/chaosesqueanthology/discussion/general/thread/72c4ff80c1/fcdf/attachment/darkplaces_workingon_aug19_2023.zip

Entire project: https://sourceforge.net/projects/chaosesqueanthology/

The difficulty with .t3d is not one you will sympathize with. Even though we’ve used blender for longer than you you will not see us as part of your “community”; and thus will close ranks against us; since we have done so solitarily and not “with” you all these years. The difficulty is that we know how long it takes to “crack” the divide between what the internal code in the engine expects and what is presented in the bytestream that is any particular file format. The two concepts.

So the problem is total: How to parse it. How to pretty it up for the internals. Etc.
However: in the linked sourcecode in models_brush.c there is both code for BSP maps AND obj files to be used as maps. Collision works on both, and the obj code is not too long.

The fact is: we’ve done a good bit of engine code this year and are burnt out and are afraid to take on something like a whole new format: and we want help. You say we’ve come to the wrong place and should get out. That’s not how the opensource/freesoftware world works: that’s how the work-a-day proprietary user world works. You going to tell me about per-seat licensing next?

???

How should anyone know if you do not say so in your first post ??

That was all what i was saying. I’m not fighting you… so do not fight me.

Good luck.

As the forum is generally not filled with fighting, perhaps take a moment and wonder why your thread has fight potential.

3 Likes

Well, no. That what happens when you walk into a cafe, tell the regulars how terrible their place is, and then say “I need someone to help me find a cow”. Guess how many people will line up to help?

Okidoki had a point in their research attempt. Yes, you provided links to source. But do you often just download random files from random (apparently new to community) people without some digging around at least? For all we know, you might be the one to want to populate the thing with ponies! (oh no)
That’s another little reason why people might be weary.

As already stated: it’s a Blender Artists forum, not “open-source developers united” (though, of course there are plenty).

I don’t know where you’ve been the last 10 years, but if you really get the same treatment on different forums (and not being a troll), then you should consider that maybe you misunderstand something about “communication”.

5 Likes

darkplaces_workingon_aug19_2023.zip (2.0 MB)

Here’s the engine (GPL), gotta use the -fcommon thing to compile it (or gcc9 or earlier) as it uses the “old” standards.
The guy wanted to change every file to some copyrighted pony file: breaking the game: but getting people to download his (broken) version and not ours. Guess he was successful. As Okie said: he found a broken thing on github. It isn’t ours. We can’t do anything about it.

The key file in the source code is models_brush.c . That’s where both the Q1 and Q2 bsp brush code is, AND the obj loading code. We were in that both for the coding for the wolfenstine: enemy territory bsp map format loading and more recently for making obj files beable to be maps (and to beable to load bzflag obj files as maps (didn’t work at all before our code)).

model_brush.c (396.3 KB)
model_shared.c (225.4 KB)
model_shared.h (45.2 KB)

Here are the files we just modified just to get the .t3d files not crashing the game when we / map something.t3d
It doesn’t load the faces: it just identifies the vertexes and prints the numbers. IE: that’s all we were able to do so far. You can see that code at the end of model_brush.c . But see those are the needed files.

boxsubtracted.t3d (6.6 KB)
Here is a simple .t3d file with a box we made in an editor (really brings us back)
boxsubtractedandboxaddedsmall.t3d (9.9 KB)
boxsubtractedandboxaddedsmall_andsomeactors.t3d (10.2 KB)
(some more we made that are slightly more complex)

We’ve been around before the community.
It’s more like someone who’s lived in the town forever: entering a NEW apartment building someone just built and saying “We saw you building this, you made it out of particle board and not concrete”.

Which we did yesterday btw: they’re trying to charge people 4200 dollars a month for some tiny apartments and the whole place is made of particle board wood.