Tony The Rapper !

Hi to all;

A few members of this Forum have come forward to develop a new character tentatively too be used for BAC. Ideas and sketches are greatly appreciated. We want something with funny looking. I was thinking of a funny caveman. If you are a modeler, rigger please get involved. Please post here your ideas, drawings or whatever to get the reference to start designing it. I will start the mesh and post it here so everyone can take a look, modify it etc…The intention is a short Term project…so we can have other Rig option for future events of BAC.


What do you think about this character ?

Hey Kiopa thanks for your reply.

The character shown is a nice one.

However to me it looks a bit like a lego toy…There is not a funny expression, also I can imagine him walking as a little mechanic robot since his legs and arms are extremely short. Something easy to animate would be more elastic looking, longer arms and legs, big and expressive eyes, so a walkcycle or runcycle would be a lot easier and believable to create. Take a look at Mancandy or bipe? those are proportional designs for elastic animations. ( just to mention a few )…

Also if he had to grab something there is not much room in his trunk…the head is also taking to much space, making the prop’s interaction a bit harder.

Did you design it? I really like the way you have implemented the bone’s layers…among other cool factors I see from your shot…I have used 2.5 but it was a bit of pain about the bone’s layers. i did not know that was posible…to make it so explicit…definetly do not run away from this project…we need your 2.5 skills!!!

Anyways community please get involved your opinions are the key of this project…:yes:

Here’s two projects I’ve been working on. The first one will draw the same criticism as kiopaa’s character did for the same reasons, it’s a caricature of a superhero and it’s pretty much finished. The costume design will need to be changed, as this is a copyrighted character. Second one is a big dumb muscle superhero (like ‘The Incredibles’) or could be a pro wrestler. My scanner decided to quit working, so it’s only a partial scan of the sketch. No work has been done on this yet.

I think it should be mentioned that any characters created for use in the BAC needs to be compatible with both 2.4x & 2.5x versions of Blender.



I don’t think the model should suggest a character - that should be left up to the animator
by that, I mean, using a “cave man” would produce a lot of cave man type animations
a wrestler would produce a lot of “wrestling” animations

but if the model is generic (like ManCandy or Pantin) it can produce a range of different character animations form the same model

since you are going to do the mesh Armando - it might be easier if you do the sketches for people to comment on, rather than the other way around

Kiopaa’s character is great and easy to use - But I do agree that short limbs are not suitable for all situations
I would suggest using this rig with a character with more naturalistic proportions

This rig does have some great features that are only possible in blender 2.5 and it is the best 2.5 rig I’ve seen so far
the limbs are stretchy (elastic)
the expression on his face can be changed - (you can even animate it :wink: )
you can turn parts of the rig off that are getting in the way (making things easy to select)
The blend shapes are available in the side bar when you grab the relevant bone

But here is a different idea for the BAC
rather than spend 6 months creating 1 “pretty” mesh that everyone is happy with (and will somehow magically attract more blender uses)
why not spend 6 months creating 6 generic rigs or so (pantin style) of a different number of legs and different shapes and sizes so we can all practice animation
(bird, spider, snake, horse, fat person, young, old, dog etc)


Hey the super-hero is not bad, however in my opinion too much body fat generally leads to auxiliary bones to correct deformations, (specially on shoulders) It might be a little frustrating for beginners…even though automatic adjusters ( transparent to the animator) can be implemented. If you could provide a better sketch and people agreed we could go for it. ( Still it reminds me Captain Blender, which I am not that fanatic to)


I get your point but that subject was left behind…now we are moving forward to a new MESH-RIG project that we expect to have the MAGIC to attract more people…ha ha You can keep using PANTIN if that makes you happy Waylow. Actually no one has said to take Pantin away, it is just other option, a renewal…moving ahead, change…if you were the big boss at the TOYOTA Company I can imagine the same models over and over for years…then? Your Company won’t succeed, people are innovators,they like new stuff…that makes you grow…don’t be afraid of moving away from THE COMFORT ZONE…SAID by BRIAN TRACY…not me ! ha ha

Six months? What are you talking about Waylow? Once we have decided what sketch to bring to 3D it will take me less than 4 days for mesh-rigging-texture and a quick animation demo…6 months no even in my dreams ha ha…may be a few more days for the community to look at the mesh and modify it for better. If Kiopa knows very well how to polish the mesh for Blender 2.5 then welcome to work as a team! We all need his skills !

Also a caveman would lead to caveman animations? What the heck was that in plain English Waylow? A caveman can jump, run, play with a ball, lift weights and do everything ! Just the actor can make something funnier by the fact that he is a caveman and it would give the spicy touch to the animation…more creativity.( that’s what you call magic somehow )…or Do you think because it is a caveman it has to fight with dinosaurs all the time? ha ha…You could make even a caveman go to MacDonalds ! In animation everything is funny possible…the restrictions are only in your mind Waylow.

Sorry but no time for me to provide sketches…we all should submit sketches and ideas so we can aim the potential towards something reliable, attractive, Magical and easy to animate from beginners to the most seasoned animators.


I have some ideas in mind, of what I’m trying to get. Not necessarily any of these ones particularly, but something with enough curve details to show that it is alive, and some personality.


I think you miss understood me about the “caveman” character
I will explain it more clearly as you think I am being cynical

have a look at the 11 second club for a moment

all the base rig models are Generic - meaning the have no clothes or props that define a personality or occupation etc
but then if the challenge needs a female character
the animator will put a wig on “bishop” to make him a girl
if the challenge suggests a scientist - then they can put a coat on ManCandy or Whatever

So my point is - don’t design a “caveman”
Design a model than can be turned into a Caveman by giving him a caveman skirt and/or a bone through his nose

I would really like to see something like this for the BAC

that way you have unlimited characters for the BAC

Er, isnt that just calvin from calvin and hobbes


About the multi-rig character design…it won’t be a problem at all. If you have the modeling skills then you can design the shapes for the new character: I will design the first one ! Kind of what I did with one of my HULK rigs…very simple WAYLOW…you could be in charge then…after any mesh is designed then you could add at least 2 shapes keys with different faces…! We need your skills…

About the caveman it was only a suggestion to have more options…we could design other character later and so on so we all have a nice repertoire to choose from…caveman…martian…wrestler…etc ! PROGRESS my friend…I just hate to be stuck for years on the same when other software are making big progresses in new rigs and meshes…WE really need to move on on this.:spin: …It really does not matter if it is a caveman or whatever…don’t get stuck o that…submit any sketches so we can move on and people can say what they think. That’s the main idea at this point.

Can you point out some of the big progressions in new rigs and meshes from other software packages?
maybe we can learn what these progressions are and adapt them to be even better

I have sent a message to Daniel Martinez Lara about his rig - to see if we can use it
(and make it better)

OK, I like the psl-man idea. Simple and versatile. I found pepeland’s post about it here on BA and followed a link to Keith Lango’s site and I like his simple designs as well.

BTW, where’s the input from others that are wanting a new character???..:eyebrowlift2:


Waylow, discussions about rigs made from other packages as MAYA or 3D MAX are really away from this topic. They should have its own thread. Plus what we are concentrating here is in a better Mesh creation…the rig would be simple so everyone can use it right out the package.Pantin is a great rig…the mesh is old fashion. We want to be original…I don’t like to copy or import other artists ideas or projects when we have the skills to develop our own…duplicating information is a really lack of creativity. Come on WAYLOW leave the shadows you should have more confidence in our ideas and designs…

WAYLOW… this thread is like a meeting in a big Company…imagine the long rectangular table…all workers sitting side by side, submitting their inputs about a new XMACHINE design. Then imagine one of the workers calling by phone to other company asking if we could use their already finished project ! Well I would fire him on the spot. WE MUST BE ORIGINAL !


The cool thing about the PSL design is the head shapes ( multi-character) however the faces are very simple, we will be on the same circle…a stick man…a triangle as a nose…come on…no appealing…Pantin or Pedro the same objects mesh ! PSL mesh would be the same … Come on…

Take a look at Mancandy’s Face…that’s what I am talking about, some personality, lines definition that’s one of the things that makes him so attractive. People quit trying to imitate others artist work! Where is our own creativity?

PD: It is always a good reminder that everyone is welcome to create their own mesh-rig if that is what you feel like doing. The main idea is to have a wider and more appealing MEsh-Rig repertoire to be used by enthusiasts and animators. About the BAC, we all know that the winner has the right to choose what rig to use next time.

Yes Mcrich114, it’s Calvin !
It would be great if we can use psl-man, Waylow, what is the answer from Daniel Martinez Lara ?

but this thread is about better mesh and rig creations - so it should belong here
you mentioned a guy in underwear? I haven’t seen this rig
can you point it out, and any other rigs you feel are progressive so we can discuss what is so progressive about them. You know, the good points and bad

But remember we don’t need to reinvent the wheel
if it’s already invented - you can make it better, faster, easier to use etc

So what about a pls-style man that has a chin/neck?
would that be possible? acceptable? (I also think you missed how his nose can change shape)

But if I’m fired…I just get my things


haven’t heard back yet

I voted for a new character. But sorry I do not have the skills for rigging or modelling. I can help with materials though.

That rig PS is nice but it is what you see all the time on youtube. A child could design it…it won’t impress.
I think Animaticon is looking for a mesh with personality. Vancouver Film School actually uses lots of those stylished meshes for their own publicity.
See these shots:


@ waylow

Here is an animation with the guy wearing underwear:

here is other one:

I think you are mixed up with this project Waylow.Lets try it one more time: The key is a new “MESH CREATION”not to re-invent the wheel! Or do you see the same meshes in Toystory-Shreck-Magadascar movies?
Take a look at NEWJOY post. Those are appealing characters, professional look…hope it helps you clarify your confusions.


Thanks for your reply newjoy. Look you really got the point on this…those characters have the professional look we expect to get. Those might be copyrighted though, but the personality and ideas are phenomenal. That’s what I am talking about…face definition with personality…forget about a mono-color clay with circle eyes and stick limbs !

The cowboy looks very sweet…some personal changes…smaller hat…Now we are getting into something ! Yes Vancouver Film School are the greatest. That’s what we want, something top-notch…even if we needed to re-invent the wheel ! Ha ha

The popularity of Blender 2.5 comes along with everyone’s effort. From developers to artists ! Why don’t backup such effort with a great and original character?

Alright - so let’s discuss

what do you like dislike about these character designs?
what is progressive about any of these models?

How/what do we create that is progressive and impressive?

with the exception of the old man head, and the fat guy - they all look like they could be created with a psl-style rig

now that would be progressive!
creating those 5 characters from the 1 rig

If you are creating a model for the BAC that will be used for a range of different activities and actions
I would steer clear of of a heavily stylised mesh as this wouldn’t be any good in a variety of situations
(have you tried to get a big head character to scratch the top of his head? - they can’t)
Generic is better

but if you want to create an awesome looking stylised model, maybe it should just be a free community Rig and not for the BAC

Remember the BAC is about animation - so what good is it having an awesome looking model if it’s impossible for him to do a range of different activities (like a handstand or touch his toes etc)

WAYLOW you are not making any sense at all…

We will keep all those points in mind. The final character should be able to do pretty much everything, we know what we are doing, …but it does not mean it has to look like clay to do those things Waylow…you are wrong or you might not have the modeling experience.

That nice cowboy provided by newjoy without a hat would be able to do ANYTHING ! I can guarantee it, and BAC will take a different look…forget about the clay looking…A nice face and a good body curvature will do the job…clay looking rigs always look goofy…we are in a new era Waylow…you have to update yourself…watch the big animated movies…they don’t use clay characters because they need to reach their toes…you are being silly.

here I found these…just examples…(don’t fuse yourself)…The caveman’ head is too big but making it more proportional I can guarantee that he would be able to trim his own toe’s nail with his teeth ! He could do ANYTHING…we talk here about better meshes…

Also take a look at this animation, you can see that a more appealing mesh does not mean limitation…at the contrary…it triggers your creativity !


I don’t see how the cowboy character will not be able to scratch the top of his head without stretching the rig

the proportions are simply too toonish- but if you can guarantee it then cool

I like the character proportions in the last example - the mesh isn’t so fantastically appealing that it would make me switch from Maya to Blender - (if I did use Maya)

Can you start modelling or sketching something around those proportions?
as I don’t have the modelling experience and I am stuck in the past