Too many Crappy Models

Can you turn this into a poll to see how many people feel that Elysiun needs a new setup?

It’s a popular misconception. The critique section is actually just for people who want to improve so the models tend to be about the same quality. It’s just the fanboy comments are watched like a hawk so hardly anybody posts there.

I don’t think the mods should necessarily be the ones to judge. They do a decent job of keeping the forum in check but I don’t see many of them critique images. I think the Elysiun users are mature enough to vote sensibly.

The point about people spreading low votes I don’t think would matter since I don’t think the people round here are that bad and if there is one or two, they shouldn’t really adversely affect the voting system.

You say it’s harsh but I think sometimes being a little harsh is what is needed. We don’t need the gestapo as Fligh % said but some rules would be nice. If a kid has no discipline, will his behaviour improve all on its own? If n00bish art isn’t dealt with more harshly then how will it ever get better.

A lot of the time tough love is better.

The trouble there is that some people who don’t have a lot of posts sometimes submit very good art because they used another program. In fact sometimes the hardest workers are the ones who post the least.

The system should base quality on the post and not the post count because we all know what that could lead to ;).

Yes, I was thinking the same thing. I think that would be very useful.

But the reason that people go away from Elysiun is because the quality is so poor. What you are saying is that we shouldn’t encourage people to be better because otherwise they will just leave. Instead, what we should do is take steps to raise the quality on Elysiun so that people have a goal to reach here. I bet a lot of the people here have the goal that they can post on CGTalk and be considered good. I know I do and the reason is that because the work that is accepted as finished is so poor that a good review here is nearly worthless.

Personally, Enrique, I’m in 100 percent agreement. There are a lot of crappy artists out there.

I remember when this sort of thing was brought of in the passed it turned into a ‘what is art?’ discussion. Personally, that just pissed me off. Christ almighty, I think that 80 percent of the crap in the WIP forum we can all look at and say “double yoo tee eff?” I don’t even go there anymore. It’s boring to look at noob work all the time. Even the focused critique has some boring art in it.

Anymore, I just look at a few select posts started by a few select artists

BgDm
@ndy (although i never read the thread. f*cking fanboys…)
S68
Allister
Sonix
GFX Idiot (or whoever he is now…)
…and there are a few more I can’t think of

Sometimes, if I haven’t heard of someone but the thread is several pages long, I take a look.

I guess I don’t mean harm to people that post in WIP and Finished works. Just cause I don’t like your ‘art’ doesn’t mean that I don’t like you.

110% agreement.

the noob forum might not be a good idea as (said before) some great works are done by people who never post here and just read threads to improve.

but really… the quality of work has gone waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay down.
there should be some kind of rating system… or something to keep bad images from popping up all over the place. i think i have posted 2 maybe 3 projects (some i never could finish for lack of a good computer %| ) but i have been waiting for my modeling skills to improve until i post.

maybe there could be a system like that of the rvb forums(karma?) if a great pic is posted then the author would be awarded points, and could post in a higher level section. (not so much post as create new threads, newbs should be able to critique too. :wink: )

maybe then some of the better artists would come back, and we wouldnt get as many one time posters.

I agree about the artwork quality being a problem. And the voting idea soungs really good, along with a select gallery for images with a 7+ rating (or w/e). Would it be possible if an image’s rating dropped below a certain point, the thread containing it would be automatically locked?

-Laurifer

I think it would be better if the thread containing the image is moved to the lower-rating section rather than locking it, in case people want to reply to the thread and/or keep voting.

I think it would be better if the thread containing the image is moved to the lower-rating section rather than locking it, in case people want to reply to the thread and/or keep voting.[/quote]

Ah. Even better. :slight_smile:

-Laurifer

This is why we created Focused Critique, was to combat some of this kind of stuff.

We’ve been over this subject twice now BTW.

Enriq766 you can complain all you want, but the truth is a lot of Blender tutorials suck! And suck big time, on all sites. You want better Blender Artists, you write better tutorials. Problem solved.

Sure there’s always some smug-know-it-all that says “Read the docs”, but that’s the problem the docs are not clear. they’re written by people who speak different languages, they’re not proof read, and they assume a lot from the reader.

There should be a committee to monitors ALL Blender tutorials for clarity. And test it!!! Get a complete Noob, give him the tutorial and if he can work through it without problem, then it’s OK.

I hate to say but Focused Critique is not a fix for the problems with elysiun. It took how many years for it to happen?

Im not trying to put down elysiun or its mods or admins. I love elysiun. I love what it Used to represent. And that was great Blender art. Where is the effort to make it awesome. You have the members, you have the webspace, you have the people willing to help(if you ask). and lord knows you have the promotion. So why is it hard to change a small thing that would benifit the community as a whole.

It has been stripped down to a forum, Im guessing because its easy to manage. So why not put a little more effort besides 1 new forum?

Well, we’re busting our asses at the moment to make this a complete site (or rather, make a new site). Coding cool site features in my free time, setting up a solid financial system to continue the site etc, so I would say we are putting in “a little more effort”.

People also seem to confuse the forum with a gallery. We had the discussion about moderating the quallity of the posted works a few times already, and I still think we simply can NOT do this on the entire forum. Even focussed critique was a big step to take, it was only neccesary to be able to give good advice to more experienced users too.

Roel

Looks like that some people hare have forgoten that they were noobs before becoming pros… [!]

My 0.02$
I believe that Elysiun, in one way of another, must encourage excelence in our works:

  • We must explore non-specific software tutorials.
  • We should have a buch of links for the people about basic concepts of Art, Color Theory, Scene Composition, Basic Hardware Calibration, Glossary, 2D Animation, Topology,etc.
  • We should target those non-Blender tutorials that can be done with Blender.
  • We should recommend readings of non-specific-sofware books (and DVD’s) like “Digital Lighting & Rendering”.
  • We should encourage exploring and testing other 3D packages.
  • We should drastically improve the quality of our tutorials, and these tutorials must contain generic approachings so that they can be done with others 3D app too.
  • We should encourage prepro working, like gathering information about the subject, sketching, storytelling, scriptwriting, screenwriting, storyboarding, etc.
  • We should learn, teach and encourage collaborative working.
  • No matter how good, bad or developed a work is but a decent lighting should be a must, I mean, we should get used to it.
  • We should inform and encourage people to do courses and trainings.

Utter elitist trash.

Thanks for your arguments. :-?

I’m new to both 3d in general and to Blender and so far I’ve in general found these forums both really informative and very welcoming. The biggest expert willing to help most knowledgeless novice. Then I see a post like this and it puts me off ever posting any work on this board at all for fear I might offend someones opinion of what is art and what is worthy. It’s stuff like this that should be deleted. If you have constructive suggestions to make its one thing but slagging people off just coz they’re not as good as you is another. Some good points have been made about elitism and people forgetting they were new once also, marveliing at their first reflective sphere render wanting to show the world because they are excited by it. You talk about promoting blender, well posts like this are totally counter productive, it’s word of mouth the promotes stuff like blender the most and making new users feel like second class citizens will just drive them to other products. Thier are plenty of examples of great work out there so to say that a few spheres are what somehow puts the professional community off blender is totally rediculous. Theres a lot more to it than that. So if you have issues with refeltive spheres or marble cubes why not suggest alterenatives, a newbie WIP and Finished projects thread for example as was suggested above somewhere.

well everyone went through the “crap” phase. btu not all of us went and told the world about it.

i showed my family, then i got better and my first post was a serious one, with serious stuff.

you can be a n00b without being a loser. posting balls and blocks is pointless. posting semi finished models (even if not very good) is not pointless.

all default mesh’s with lighting and textures should be deleted, unless posted by a respected member of the community with a specific justifiable reason.

personal censorship is seriously lacking in this community.

Alltaken

Goofster summed up what my feelings are here. This is a forum, not a gallery. Yes, it is a “Finished Projects” forum that should showcase better works and not “reflective spheres”, but again, it is a forum where people are allowed to post freely.

I personally do not post in finished work until I feel that I have completed something to my best ability. Sometimes even that is not good enough for me, as I feel that it could be improved, but I just have either had enough of the peice, or the next step to take it to where it needs to be is beyond my current capabilities. I learn something new every day with Blender, Photoshop, etc.

Probably the best comment yet in this thread. Well said sir.

BgDM

To be honesty, most of what everyone said it true some way or another and some very good points have been made.

The only way things are going to change is if you make things change, To bring up my site again (I’m almost a poser now =P) I am doing that site due to the lack of quality art & design sites. Being a member of several design communitys it has gotten rather sickening how they are managed, run and what not and the tutorials they come out with everyday are worse, i mean, since when was creating a 500X500 canvas and applying 5 filters a tutorial?

But if you want to make elysuin better your going to have to do somthing to make it better. And i believe for what elysiun has given us all, we should give somthing back?

We can’t take over elysiun because we have no right, and i’m sure they are putting a lot of effort in creating the blender artists so we don’t want to ruinin that, but we can for sure as hell improve the quality of these forums and memebers.

Somone noted that there are almost no decent tutorials? And begininger are not really learning, the fact blender get updated rather regualrily the whole blender system is different, but we as a community can easily create new, up to date documentation and tutorials and i think many of us owe blender and elysiun by doing such a thing,

And we can generall improve forum etiquette quite easily somone or everyone could help write beiginer elsyiun documents, like where to post what, what people hate to see posted, and so on, in short sweet and simple pages which can be handed to new sign ups…

I know some people may think its a good idea, other wont, and most people probabily wouldn’t even bother doing such a thing because they would rather complain than to get off thier ass, but if you want to improve the forum then you have to improve it, and writing tutorials and documentation is non agressive action (i.e. not taking over elysiun) but can only help improve the quality.

Hey Pros I have a better idea.Why to delete the threads that new users create and not to ban all the new users…lol :stuck_out_tongue: :Z :Z

By the way I agree with you Alltaken personal censorship is seriously lacking in this community.

Probably the best comment yet in this thread. Well said sir.[/quote]

I agree and the point was raised already but how do you encourage personal censorship without moderation (and I don’t mean from the moderators)? People have so many different views about what level their work is at.

With an objective system that lets people know for sure what level they are at, it might encourage awareness of what should be posted and what shouldn’t. It would also give clearer indication about how much work people need to do to reach a certain level.

In schools we have grading systems that tell you how good you are and if you want to be in the higher up classes, you have to put in the time and effort. If everyone in school was taught at the same level, talented people are left unchallenged and untalented people get left behind. Everybody loses out.

Changing the system is not about elitism, in fact it’s the opposite. Dante already commented on the fanboy posts that @ndy gets. Well why do you think that happens? It’s because all the posts surrounding his work are poor so he looks like Tom Cruise beside a bunch of Ron Jeremy lookalikes.

If @ndy’s work was beside basse, Venomgfx, Robertt <insert good artist> then that wouldn’t happen because you are comparing like with like. Such a system also gives people a goal. Right now, since all the works are lumped together, people won’t feel the need to improve because there is no reward (other than personal) - your image is going to go in the same place no matter how good or bad it is.

Your efforts and those of the team who keep Elysiun going are very much appreciated and I know some people suggested that moderators should sort out the art but I think the general consensus was that a rating system would do the work for you.

It doesn’t take a moderator to see that a cube textured with a purple marble texture has had no effort put into it. I doubt that the mods of other forums analyse each piece of art individually.

I’m aware that this discussion keeps coming up now and again like a few other subjects but that tells me a dedicated gallery is what some people want. Now I can understand if that’s not what you want at Elysiun so the solution is that we use another dedicated site such as Lukus’s (helping his shameless self-promotion ;)). I don’t know what Blenderartists.org will be like though, so it may not be necessary.

I personally think that the Blender.org discussions should be brought here and the gallery moved to Blender.org but that’s been ruled out before because despite the fact there is a lot of redundancy in the discussions between blender.org and elysiun, some people want to keep the developer stuff separate.