:'(


(snowy_duck) #1

a sad day


(Dittohead) #2

a day a remembering for those who died.

a day of joy, for those who got out of the buildings.


(TheHobbit) #3

Why would today be sad?


(Timothy) #4

because it’s 1 year ago that 3000 people suddenly got killed in 1 day by a group of people who crashed 4 airplanes. 3 of which they crashed into highly populated buildings.

Personally I found it a terrible thing, and do infact wish it had never happened. But a part of me does find it ‘interesting’ to see how the world and especially america has reacted to all of this. What kind of an impact it has had on people.
I must say I don’t think it has been for the better. Though personally I do think that the renewed military undertakings against the taliban and saddam hussein is something which I find ‘positive’ (for asfar as military intervention can ever be).
I don’t think america has the proper motives, nor give the adequate evidence for the motives they claim they have. However it is a fact that both the afghan people as the iraq people are better off without there current (iraq) / past (afghanistan) leaders.

Today for me is not really a sad day though, for the the attacks didn’t mean as much as alot of the visitors to this forum. I haven’t lost any family or loved ones.
Though ofcourse I still can’t quite grasp how anyone could ever do a terrible thing like that.

Strange post? yes,… why? no idea

Greets,
Kib
(that rhimes!!)


(acasto) #5

The thing that gets me is deeper than just airplanes hitting buildings, but the loss of inncent lives collectively, around the world. I was touched today when I was watching an interview of one of the relatives of a victim of Sept. 11. He was talking about that suicide bombing at the university in Israel, and how each of those people who lost their lives, were just as important as those who lost their lives on Sept.11.

One day I was reading an interview of an Al-Quadea operative, and he was saying how they have the right to kill a million american women and children. I was furious, who in the world thinks they have the right to kill women and children for no reason, and past that, they think it’s a good cause. You know how you feel when someone wants to hurt someone your know. A friend, a girlfriend or boyfriend, a child, or even siblings and parents. Well that is what they want to do. They would kill our children if they could. Eveyone should take it personally, because it is the truth. The best thing for the world, if for all to come together, and get rid of these #(^#[email protected][email protected]


(IMProvisar) #6

I’d like to make a couple corrections…

because it’s 1 year ago that 3000 people suddenly were murdered in under 3 hours by a group of people who attempted to crash 4 or more airplanes into highly populated buildings, all of which failed.

Two hit their targets. Despite the fact that they hit their targets, amazing American engineering kept the targets standing long enough for brave Americans to enter, helping most of the ~50,000 occupants out in time. The third couldn’t find its original target, and hit its secondary target in the least-populated portion. The fourth was forced down by its passengers, who bravely stood up to the attackers, ensuring that no more lives than necessary were taken. Any other attempts were thwarted by the quick grounding of all planes.

I don’t exactly understand what you think the motives are. I see no motive than the fight against tyranny and evil.

Is it not obvious that Afghanistan, under the Taliban was a haven for international torrorists, and a nation built on opression and hostile rule? It is now much less of either, and eventually will be none of either.

As for Iraq. Saddam Hussein has demostrated the danger he poses to the world. He has actively sought out to develop or buy weapons of mass destruction, and their delivery systems. On some of those counts, he has even aquired them, and demonstrated his willingness to use them… even on his own citizens. He has actively supported terrorism, including paying US$25k each to families of Palestinian suicide bombers, and building terrorist training facilities, such as a jumbo-jet fuselage for hijacking training. He has thwarted every effort by the UN to monitor his weapons programs, and fired on American aircraft enforcing the no-fly zones.

You may be talking about oil… if so, I don’t blame you. While it certainly isn’t the most important factor for taking these actions, I can see why people would imagine they are relevant factors in each case (for those that don’t know, China, on Sept. 10, '01, from what I understand, signed a treaty with the Taliban, no doubt in hopes for rights to a pipleline across Afghanistan, supplying Caspian Sea oil). While I am an idealist, I have my pragmatic side as well. Even if someone thought it was only for oil, why condemn such a good action? If you do something good for the wrong reason, that doesn’t mean that good wasn’t done. As for Iraq, I think it may have been the major factor in '91, but not now. Iraq was specifically named in the axis of evil for good reason.

It is a sad day for me… while the loss on Sept. 11 is something that should be remembered, my sadness is because there are still Americans who just don’t get it. There are still those who wish to play politics with our safety, knowing full well what has happened, and what could happen again. They’re the ones who hate guns so much, they would allow another plane hijacked, rather than allowing pilots to arm themselves. They’re the ones who are so interested in expanding the Federal Employees Union, that they won’t allow the speedy creation of a Homeland Security Agency, because people could be fired for incompetence. They’re the ones who are so interested in expanding the welfare, medicare, and social security roles, they refuse to secure our borders from intruders. They’re the ones who are so interested in PCness, that an 80 year old nun is just as suspect as a 25 year old male from the home of our enemy. They’re the ones who are so partisan, that they will support one president in an empty action, and not another when real action is so much more needed. They’re the ones who are so warped that prohibiting Christian prayer in school, and teaching the Quran in school do not conflict. They’re the ones who don’t seem to get that a group of people have declared war on us, and whether they like it or not, that means that WE ARE AT WAR. They’re the ones who wish to constantly dwell on the events of one year ago, while at the same time chastising those with righteous anger over those events.

This is why I am sad today.

Imp


(Nayman) #7

not to get into a debate, but as a canadian, i feel i have an objective view point.

The events of Sept. 11th were the sinlge most awful event i have ever witnessed. I cried for 5 hours straight, and only stopped because no more tears would come. It felt like the world was coming to an end.

The people who orchestrated this event should without a doubt be brought to justice. The taliban should be removed from afgahnistan, and America should remember its hero’s and it’s lost. However, using the events of sept 11th to put down Islam is just low.

I am jewish, and i feel no different to my Palestinian fr iends as i do to my jewish friends. To me, they are jsut people. To stop an afghani man at an airport but let a white man walk by is racism… plain and simple.
How would you feel if you were the man that was stopepd. hurt. Betrayed. Everyone would stare at you. think you were a terrorist. Maybe it’s time we stopped looking at nationalities, and started looking at souls.

Stop a terrorist yes, a man from afgahnistan, no.

How do we tell the terrorists? I don’t know. Maybe everyone should be stopped. Perhaps proof of citizenship, a birth certificate, a passport, a DNA test, and a finger print ID should be instituted at every customes agency. But then we are living in an orvellian World.

The problem is not jsut the terrorists, the problem is the world. We need to grow up. We need to stop this petty fighting. I assure you that if there was a comet heading towards the earth, you would hide along side any man, woman, or child.

We are all human beings. That is all that matters. Wars, racism, anti-semitism, sexism, We need to stop. The next time you are out walking, take a look around you. Every single person on the side walk is exactly like you.

I guess it comes down to the old addage of “so unto others as you would have others do unto you”.

I can’t fight, I can’t win this battle. Humanity suffers from an over abundance of greed, and envy.

All i can do is be the best person i can be, and live life to its fullest. At least that way, i know there is one less person out there who could do wrong.

I urge you all to do the same.

Life is short.

Instead of wasting it arguing over who to kill, and whether we should attack, just go out and live life.

If you could bring thsoe 3000 people back for a day, i don’t think they would spend it arguing.

They would spend it living.

I didnt start this post to fight, jsut to voice my oppinions.

If you wish to argue my point, please leave me messages, or send me an email.

I wish all of you a pleasant evening.
May you all stay safe.


(IMProvisar) #8

I’m sorry that you want any replies to be private, but some of the statements, so far as I can tell, were commenting on my post publicly, therefore I must respond publicly.

I can understand full well the difference between those who attacked my nation and others, and good, peaceful, productive muslims. I believe this was directed toward my comment of teaching the Quran is school… I don’t mind that. What I mind is a group of individuals who at the same time try to remove every shred of Christianity from our schools and our government in the name of Church vs. State, then at the same time, in the name of multiculturalism, teach Islam, and provide special priviledges to Muslim students and employees. That is religious discrimination. The discrimination is what I put down, not Islam.

Every one of the 19 murderers of Sept. 11 were from one peninsula, half way across the world. Their organizers and those who aid them are also from that same region. To ignore this fact would be absolutely idiotic. I’m not saying inspect every Arab, while ignoring everyone else… but we need to exercise common sense rather than dangerous blindness.

That’s a very nice sentiment, but you until design your magical soul-seer, more practical measures must be taken. El Al (sp?) will keep you from boarding just because they don’t like the way you walk. It may not be right, but when was the last time that airline was hijacked?

All of this was full of very nice sentiments… but there are people out there who don’t want to allow me to just go out and live life. You cannot expect a people to stand by while others are plotting to murder them.

Imp


(harkyman) #9

Well said, IMProvisar.

What gets me is the attitude of the rest of the world. That “get over it” attitude. Yeah, I know you Europeans had your Holocaust, your communist purges, your what-not, and you’re a little jaded. Oh wait, you would think that all of those things would have taught the rest of the world a lesson: unchecked, the evil nature of mankind will destroy and destroy and destroy until someone stops it.

Personally, I’ve stood up to bullies (long time ago), tyrannical/idiotic supervisors/managers. I’ve stood up for my beliefs when it seemed like it might cost me. It’s easier to do when you’ve got people backing you up. But it doesn’t mean that you shouldn’t do it if no one else is on your side. That’ll sure make you think twice, but your imperative does not change.

I think that what changed a lot of people is this: Before last September, all of us Americans simply assumed that our way of life would continue. And life is good here. Incredibly good. We don’t want it to end. But for a few hours or a few days last year, that was all in doubt. It was easy to conceive of a future in which our way of life did not continue. And that was terrifying. I believe that for a lot of us, it has made us really think about the structure and tenets of our society (please don’t judge us by bad sitcoms and horrible nationalistic news coverage - most of us here can’t stand that crap either), and we’ve come out with the understanding that the ideals and systems of American government and society - Freedom, a Democratic Republic, Constitutional Rights, individual choice and self-reliance - that these things are what will win this “war”. Once the Arab world that currently lives beneath the foot of propogandizing totalitarian regimes (and, basically, that’s just about all of them) experiences a taste of self-determination, there will be no stopping it. Just like in the Soviet Bloc.

Yeah, I’m sad. But I have tons of hope, and gobs of goodwill toward all mankind (and even more for womankind).


(IMProvisar) #11

I don’t necessarily find that sick. What I find sick is them showing that, while at the same time telling us not to be angry.

If only one American each showing got angry, then it was worth it. We need the resolve to defend ourselves, and ignore the appeasers… if only people took that stance earlier in Europe, so many fewer people would have died in the second World War.

There is no compromise possible with such people, no meeting of minds, no point of understanding with such terror. Just a choice: defeat it or be defeated by it. And defeat it we must.

-Tony Blair, British Prime Minister, Oct. 2, 2001

Imp


(cree) #12

Give it a rest. It’s a graphics forum. Take it over to the off topic forum.


(blengine) #13

Give it a fucken rest.

oh well said! but asking for flames :wink:


(acasto) #14

NO one made you read it, or post to it. Your free to open a thread and whine about it if you like.


(cree) #15

Well, if it was opened in the off topic forum, we wouldn’t be having this pointless conversation. As for flames, it would take 250 million of you simpletons 250 million years to come up with enough savvy to figure out how to rub two sticks together to come up with a spark. Sorry, I don’t engage in intellectual duels with cripples. Give it a rest, because in six months, you won’t even remember or care what happened yesterday.


(acasto) #16

Yep, a proactive pitiful whiner. As I thought

And I would love to see someone make sparks with sticks, an ember, sure, but sparks… what the heck kind’ve sticks you have there?


(cree) #17

You must be really bored ? . If you want attention. I’m sure a psychiatrist can help you. Otherwise, go play with your pitiful Blender creations or your web site projects. Good night


(acasto) #18

hehe :smiley:

Actually I’m not bored. I’m sure though I could use a psychiartirst, perhaps fix this little tick I have going. Stress, I think it may be.

good night


(cree) #19

Oh I forgot, being the proactive whiner that I am, I don’t spend most of my time on Elysiun posting paranoid conspiracy theories about my government hacking using Carnivore searching for keywords.


(acasto) #20

Neither do I. And when you say “Grow Up”, are you just meaning ignore it? or have a closed mind? or that it is not happening? If the latter, then prove it. If not, then have an open mind or else just ignore those who do have an open mind.

If I count, there may be a couple consipiracy theory threads, but that is hardly most of my time.


(cree) #21

I’m having fun too. I’m just as bored as you are. Dialog creates peace. Don’t forget about dialog. When you talk truth comes out and you eventually iron out differences. I’m a pacifist, but I don’t believe in this flag waving crap. It’s just a way of getting people to pick up guns instead of books or keyboards or sitting at negotiating tables. Peace.