Understanding new layer render system, collection and workspace


(Indy_logic) #61

So, it looks like the general conversation about the outliner got merged into this thread. I’d just like to point out that this thread was originally supposed to be about render layers (view layers??) and collections and not specifically about how the outliner works.


(dracoroot7) #62

like h to hide or alt h to unhide. Does those hide in all 3d viewports ?(have not tested 2.8 yet)


(Hadriscus) #63

I thought it was supposed to be possible to have two 3DViews each showing a different view layer ? Isn’t it what this means ?

For example, you can have animation layer with only character you’re currently animating and show it in one window and have another preview layer which includes everything required for the preview (which could include more objects from environment or other character).

(https://code.blender.org/2016/12/dependency-graph-proposal/)


(Pitiwazou) #64

Lets hope they will add this or it’s already there.


(burnin) #65

:thinking: How about possibility to Duplicate Collections (as was Duplicating Groups)???


(Hadriscus) #66

Now we can instance collections, just like the old “group instance”, if that’s what you mean ?


(burnin) #67

Oh, i see. Thanks for the hint.


(Serge L) #68

Sorry if it isn’t right place to ask, but I am very confused with new system and I have some dumb questions for you.

  1. Where is visual representation of collection settings? Right now I can only see that header is greying out, when excluded, but what about adding Holdout option to it?
    8

  2. How to keyframe/drive these options? This is how it can be done in 2.79.
    79

  3. How to remove collection from one View layer, but leave in another?

  4. Thinking of collections as old layers, what is the purpose of creating collection inside existing collection?

  5. Collections of lamps can be used as analog of Light groups (BI) ?

Thanks!


(RickyBlender) #69

what is the logic now ?
need some clarifications here !

new hierarchy is
Scene – collections – objects view layers render layers ?

no limit on number of collections
collection master is like a list of all collections
which can use item number of collection name like a dictionary in python ?

each collection would have a list of objects in it by name I guess
hidden or not ?

if an object is hidden in one collection it will be hidden in all collections too?

how can we see if an object belongs to more then one collection
is this shown in the outliner
or is there a script to show this ?

is there a list of the API command using the new collections ?

thanks for feedback
happy bl


(sozap) #70

here are a few answers :

This is temporary, and should be replaced by dynamic override system. And I guess keyframing or driving that isn’t supported .

In your first screenshot, it’s Set Exclude

It’s just to help manage more objects, you can have a “house” collection that contains walls, roof, furniture collections that contains objects.

eevee and cycles don’t have this option yet…


(Zsolt) #71

Why does turning the visibility of a collection off and on again turn on all the visibilities of all the objects inside? It forgets the visibility state of all its contents!
For example, I have a collection of objects A, B and C. Object A ist hidden, I don’t want it visible. Now I turn the collection off to work on another part of my scene. When I turn it back on, all the objects are made visible, even “Object A”, which I explicitly set to hidden.

This doesn’t make sense. It is a hindrance to working with more complex, nested collections.
Is this a bug, or is it really intended to work like this?


(Lsscpp) #72

I guess it’s just a not mature implementation, aka alpha state software


(William) #73

This is indeed confusing. However you are probably better off using the viewport visibility toggle, which looks like a screen, instead of the eye toggle. The Viewport Display toggle works as you want.

The difference between the two is very unintuitive and confusing, I hope we can make this area simpler.


(Okavango) #74

William, a bump of an old but important topic, i still think there might be some problems in the future because of fusing layers and groups into one. You will probably end up needing two distinct systems:

https://developer.blender.org/T54842#500032
https://developer.blender.org/T54842#500538

A lot of people don’t realize this yet, if you find time i would like to hear what you think.


(William) #75

That is not needed. No need to split apart Collections. Think of Collections as just nested, named layers.

The problem is that it’s just confusing that we display both the hide state (eye) and the visibility state (screen icon) in the Outliner like we do. This can be solved without completely ripping apart the Collections concept.


(Piotr Adamowicz) #76

What is the precise difference between hidden and disabled objects/collections?

How do you view the contents of a given collection? This is both about the outliner (where objects in a collection mysteriously don’t appear in it, giving the impression all collections are empty) and about the viewport - in previous releases, you would click a layer to view that layer in the viewport. How do you do that now?

I very much like the Collections system conceptually, but the implementation leaves me baffled, nothing making sense.


(docent) #77

Concept is good, The Icons are only confusing thing… Collection can be disabled so it means it is included in render/view layer or not.
Its about asset being nesesary in render or not…

Hiding is just for working time - to make viewport less distracting.
So we can change disable icon to associate with fact that object is used or not… like in box out of box…
or maybe hiding should be snowflake or something… or semi invisible… maybe monkey with eyes covered by hands… i feel that icons could solve problem


(Zsolt) #78

Yes the screen icon toggles remember their state. The problem is, when I turn off collections with the screen icon, then sometimes other collection are automatically turned off. Which I don’t understand at all. Will need to investigate a bit further.


(Riofranco) #79

Hi guys !
Did you ever try to open an old project from 2.79 to 2.8 ? All of your layers are merged into random collection, very unuseful, confusing and not user friendly :confused: I really prefer the old system.


(RickyBlender) #80

not random there is a method to this madness LOL

some objects go to some collection
not certain what the logic is but works ok

happy bl