Unreal 5 Matrix experience

It’s unning smoothly on a PS5, full real time no pre calculated.

Interactive demo followed by open world free gameplay

Neither objects or textures popping, vehicles visible very far, lot of well detailled characters in some places, physic destruction on vehicles.

The new open world system combiend with Nanite and Lumen seems promising for big studios.

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That’s not a game demo… it’s just a viewport into the Matrix…
Best thing: Neo/Keanu:
“Word of advice. Agents are bad. But whatever you do. Stay the hell away from marketing.

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There is definitely object and texture pop in (at least on PS5 I don’t have an XSX so I don’t know if that doesn’t have it). You can notice it much more when you use the drone and fly as high as you can then look at the city, you will see the buildings popping into higher LODs as you approach them. You can see what’s happening if you change to Nanite view. It also happens quite a bit while driving around. It’s still impressive though.

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:sweat_smile:
But marketing is necessary even for Blender or Blendermarket.

Exactly,TAA artifacts, sometimes too much blurr to cover issues, characters looking very “game engine characters” when camera is not in front of the face.

Biggest downside, a no for me, the game is running at 30fps max.
Nanite and Lumen are too much taxing on GPU on PS5 and XSX.
Curious to see how will it run on better hardware like PC with RTX 30xx video card.

Like you said , this still remain impressive.
Just my bet, but GTA6 and others next gen open world games, i think will do as great visuals and lot better frame rate without Nanite and Lumen.

Is not Cyberpunk as detailled ? It is a fully interactive game, with lot more diversity about buildings and details all around, lot less taxing on high end GPU and at least 60 fps possible.

Cool infos on Digital Foundry

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Well to be fair this is just a demo made by a small-ish team versus Cyberpunk which was made by a full team working on the game. On top of that the quality of the assets in the demo are higher than Cyberpunk just in-terms of how they are rendered. Cyberpunk also has awful pop-in far worse than the demo by a large margin. One thing the demo has is no object pop-in, they still have LOD pop-in which is what I was talking about but I haven’t noticed any objects popping in and out, you can see things straight to the horizon and they are persistent. It’s really impressive its just that nanite does not get rid of that trademark UE LOD pop in that I find annoying.

I do have concerns about the 30FPS though. But we knew that’s what Epic was targeting with Nanite and Lumens when they first showed off the technologies anyway since they said as much. I wouldn’t expect this demo to be any different.

What’s considered a small-ish team these days though? FxGuide says 60-100 artists over the course of a year or more. https://www.fxguide.com/fxfeatured/the-matrix-is-unreal/

Sounds massive to me for a demo. A few years ago when I was still working inhouse, a 60+ person art team would have been considerable for a mid-sized developer of 300 or so people. That would have probably been most of the artists in the company.

Still, a very promising look at what can be expected in the years to come, no doubt. No longer very noticeable pop-in/fade-in of assets for starters.

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60-100 people in a project is quite smallish by today’s standards. Cyberpunk 2077 took around 500 developers and more than 5000 employees and subcontractors to realize it. (source: https://opattack.com/cyberpunk-2077-5000-people/ the credits on the game are quite incomplete). Granted, cp2077 assets were produced mostly from scratch (except actors), while in the Unreal demo all the assets comes from from reality captured data.

Most people are quite stunned by this demo, but TBH, and IMHO, is not that impressive, given the current hardware available. Streaming data to the GPU to process in realtime is nothing new (Rocksteady in 2011 were pioneers on this front with Arkham City) and is a very well known fact that GPU’s (since the demise of 3DFX, or the Geforce 3 era) should never be treated like a read device, but as write-only devices. With PCIe 4.0 (let alone the upcoming 5.0) you can process high polycounts environments (Nanite) and realtime rendering with a target of 30 fps (or 1 full rendered frame every 0.033 seconds) quite easily, and for consoles that’s the current standard. The trick is doing this in a bug-free way, but this is Epic games we’re talking about: They got the resources (praise games as a service), the money (Fortnite) and the people required to make it so.

It might be only a demo, but this is what sells, since Unreal Engine is licensed for a fee, and it’s source code and algorithms cannot be used in other projects or open/free source projects. This is an investment, and not much more than an ad for the engine. (IMHO)

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What’s impressive is the high level of detail. The buildings aren’t using normal maps or any trickery like that, its real geometry. When you get close to objects they are fully detailed, there isn’t a blocky edge in sight. They even modeled the chain linked fences throughout the demo, those are not alpha textures as you would normally see in most games. It’s super impressive, it’s pretty much all detail and geometry. CP does not do that, I haven’t see any open world game that reaches this kind of detail from far to up close to objects. When Epic said you can drop in assets directly from the asset pipeline without worrying about LODs etc they were very serious.

Then there is the lighting. All the lighting comes from the sun, and emissive objects. Like I said impressive. The demo itself is probably boring in terms of content but the tech on display is pretty slick.

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apart from anything that easily blows my mind coming as an aged pc player who cares more about graphics than anything else, I’m also impressed by the way they handle car damage on top of the nanite mesh, very clever, wondering why it hasn’t been released on PC though.

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I think they’ll release it as a demo project with UE5. Assets and all.

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Well I meant massive for a demo/pre-pro art team. Big as well in my opinion for a production art team. That sounds like big-boy team sizes a la major studios and I don’t think Unreal is marketed towards them but rather the small and mid-sized ones who can’t afford or would like to cut out engine and tool development as much as possible but still have state of the art features.

I wouldn’t be fooled by endless scrolling credits: over the years of a project as people come and go those lists start to balloon and everybody and their dog who spent a week working on it or just happened to be employed at the company around that time might feature.
There’s also people being credited who have never touched the project themselves but whose work predating it made it in for some reason (usually under special-thanks or additional art or something).

Aaanyways… :slight_smile:

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Yup, all geometry. That’s the whole point of streaming from CPU/SSD/RAM to GPU/VRAM. It’s all prepared and preprocesed data to make the GPU processing as minimal as possible. That’s all whats “nanite” is about: Discard all trickery, go full brute force, and use all triangles/textures/materials and only process lightning (since GPU’s are quite good at that).

I doubt it will release for PC’s anytime soon. Basically, although PS5 and Xbox series X are PC hardware based, they use custom communication methods and hardware that exceeds in speed what we have nowadays in PCIe 4.0 motherboards available. So any port from consoles to PC as of now, will have to be prepared with all the trickery possible to run on PC’s until the time PCIe 5.0 arrives to minstreram computing (2022-2023 i think) . (Intel 12xxx processors series supports PCIe 5.0, but no motherboard as of today supports it 100%).

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is it hardware bound or software like DirectStorage or both on PC? I thought as long as you have Nvme ssd you will benefit from DirectStorage with you current setup.

I played with in on an XSX and it was really quite amazing. The first part of the demo is a rather poorly interactive game section, but you can just click your way through that and enjoy the real-time vfx and stuff. The city explorer mode is what’s really neat.

You can enable the UE5 tile/polygon visualizations, camera settings, traffic and pedestrian density, etc. in the menus. there are some POIs on the map that do things, such as the yellow one in the center of the map that lets you toggle between day and night lighting which is very cool.

You can walk around, drive any vehicle that’s parked on a road (not those in parking lots or currently being driven), and move the camera in free (drone) mode.

It’s definitely worth the 30GB if you have a box to try it on. I got sucked in and lost track of time.

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Is hardware bound. DirectStorage is just a marketting name for a set of algorithms that can stream data in compressed blocks to the GPU. Maybe will include some sort of digital restrictions management since it will work only partially on windows 10, but it should work 100% on windows 11.

PS5 and Xbox series X uses custom hardware to make the ssd->GPU transfers direct. This technology was also present in rudimentary form in the PS4 too. (And also was one of the main reasons certain ports of certain games were faster on PS4 than their PC ports. Arkham Knight was the most infamous case, since it uses this extensively on the PS4, but the PC was a stutter show and in some stages, slideshow too.)

On PC, PCIe 5.0 should be the game changer.

right cheers for the clear up, I was planning upgrade my 10 years old pc next year, now it sounds like a promising feature worth waiting for, so with PCIe 5.0, PC will support the data transfer directly from storage to gpu without going through main bus, is that so?

PCIe 4.0 can also do that (rudimentary for now), but only 5.0 will have speed parity with consoles.

This is not even a little bit accurate.

Nanite basically tesselates the meshes in reverse. Where a tesselating shader will create more triangles than the base mesh that can be displaced for more geometric detail, using screenspace to determine how many triangles to add, Nanite actually reduces the number of the triangles in the base mesh using a screenspace metric. It does this by breaking up the meshes into clusters of triangles (shown at 10:49 in the video in the OP) and collapsing triangles in the clusters together when the triangles become smaller than an on-screen pixel. This results in a fairly static number of triangles that the GPU is actually drawing in any given frame, but the base meshes can have millions of triangles and you don’t have to author LODs for them.

I’m massively oversimplifying, but you can watch Brian Karis’s SIGGRAPH deep dive here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eviSykqSUUw

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Well, i stand corrected, but altough misunderstood, nanite is still about static meshes (no animated or dynamic meshes, according to unreal 5 docs.), so brute force still applies, and no LOD (in the classic sense, LOD is applied per triangle, plus some other compressed data , according to Unreal 5 docs.) or similar trickery applies to them.

About UE5 demo, i guess they should release demo and assets later on PC, or perhaps when Unreal 5 launches out of early access.

Unreal 5 will be used on Fornite and it’s supposed to support mobile platforms. So i guess on lower PC hardware Nanite, Niagara and world manager will also scale details, textures and the amount of data streaming.

This demo running 30fps max , some times lowering to 20 or 25 fps, could be done with common LOD and higher frame rate i guess. The demo runs 30fps at 1620p (but mainly dynamic resolution lowering to 1404p).

Let’s wait other next gen games looking same or detailed, and see how they perform about resolution and frame rate.

But Cyberpunk is a game, it’s not a walking tech demo.
Not sure Matrix demo will run 4K 60 FPS on a 3090.

30 fps on PC is a no go for any games, only on consoles players can’t always adjust parameters and are forced to play in 30fps.