US/world economy may soon come to an end

Then comes this

We usually pull soldiers out when a country becomes stable, we would do this with Iraq but can’t right now because there’s little peace.[/quote]

and who put instability in the country???

it was all osama bin laden LOL.

him being in afganistan is all iraqs fault X-W


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Alltaken :stuck_out_tongue: :stuck_out_tongue:

Here’s what it comes to - getting an adequate Iraqi army and police force up as fast as possible and getting the hell out of there. They won’t mind being policed by their own people (so long as their government is truly self-run). It’s the Americans that they are pissed at.

The BS you hear about needing stability before we pull out is more like, “We need to let our American contractors who were awarded no-bid contracts by the President finish raking in their money for rebuilding the country before we pull out,” and oh yeah, “The US needs to establish another military base to maintain peace in the middle east.” That’ll come later, like it did in Saudi Arabia when we didn’t abandon our base even after Saddam was defeated in Kuwait. Unsurprisingly, shortly afterward a man named “Osama Bin Laden” from the Muslim holy land of Saudi Arabia was no longer on the side of the USA.

If Social Security (which really is quite piddly anyway) didn’t exist, this problem wouldn’t exist. Of course, if a lot social crap didn’t exist then the economy woldn’t be in the ****s.

This where al_capone and I agree: bush needs to work on the social programs: get rid of 'em.

the true capitalist way.

i would actually be curious as to the outcomes of such an action.



the true capitalist way.

i would actually be curious as to the outcomes of such an action.


I think it’s called an Independent IRA. Not sure how it works all that I know about it is the benefit is more then what you get with SS. There is a government one but you would have to pay income tax later on.

Those dollar bills ain’t money, they’re just notes that are back by a centralize bank, hell, it doesn’t even come from the government. When I say centralize bank, I’m referring to the world bank, I think the IMF act as a credit card company, but the “leaders” don’t always pay it back so the suffering is pass onto the people and natural resource are often taking for compensation. If it’s money you looking for, then you should invest in gold, silver, copper, nickle. Don’t just invest in them, buy them and store them away. They are the only form of money that won’t loose there value. Well, not sure about that, but more likely.

If America wish to capitalize off world economy, first thing we need to do is get rid of the centralize bank and replace them with private banks that will act with other banks in other countries. Second, we need to get rid of the limited wage and I’m referring to the amount per hour, not the other’s that go with it. Third, we need to find a “free” alternative source of fuel. Taxes, government and laws need to be cut and the legalization of hemp will help with the economy.

Then comes this

We usually pull soldiers out when a country becomes stable, we would do this with Iraq but can’t right now because there’s little peace.[/quote]

Then why is there military in Japan, England, Germany, Russia, Australia and other stable nations ? I don’t really think our government are there to keep a country stable. I think they use it as a stepping ground for other things. They have nothing else there for them, wouldn’t country be stronger if they can stand on there own two feet ?

Those countries are close allies with the US, and besides, they don’t go marching through those countries like in Iraq and Afganistan.

Just because they aren’t attacking us with their military doesn’t mean they’re allies… man you are ignorant.

Japan for example has a "nuclear free (weapons that is) policy.

HOWEVER the US navy base located in japan is packed with so many nukes its not funny.

do the japanese want the nukes or the navy base there? NOPE.

it is tabo subject, one which no government is allowed to raise because of fear that the US will cut trade… its a leftover from WWII that the US will never give up.

note the base on CUBA (an enemy terretory, where they put prisoners they want to treat like scum)

the US has bases all over the world in forgein soil, they have them there because nobody has the balls to challenge the US.

some day my friend, some day… (i will watch with interest as the US falls, it shall be a pretty shitty time, but interesting to see how it all plays out)


I was meaning the countries you actually listed. Germany, Japan, those countries.

Mr. Even more ignorant :wink:

I was meaning the countries you actually listed. Germany, Japan, those countries.

Mr. Even more ignorant ;)[/quote]

Coincidentally, I did too! Germany and Japan aren’t in Iraq fighting alongside American soldiers are they? Because our allies sure are.

Germany isn’t, but they may be talked into supporting training of Iraqi police as long as Germany doesn’t have to go anywhere near the Persian Gulf.

BTW, Germany does have troops in Afghanistan.

Japan is supporting the efforts in Iraq. This is a big deal, as the first out of area deployment for the Japanese military since WWII. Japan has been concentrating on humanitarian assistance work and medical support. Japan is also being very supportive of anti-terrorism efforts in the Pacific rim (North Korea, Phillipines, China, Indonesia, etc.)

In a near politcal flame war like this, its easy to tell which paper each one of you reads / news channel each one of you watches.


Japan is supporting the efforts in Iraq. This is a big deal, as the first out of area deployment for the Japanese military since WWII. Japan has been concentrating on humanitarian assistance work and medical support. etc.)[/quote]

And they were boo and spit upon once they got back. That is a good thing, because such practice would lead into another Empire.

Did you predict that I read I would predict not…

It includes everything from Al-Jazeera to Fox.

Al-Jazeera is a good news group, very well rounded and balanced opinions.

Fox is even more well rounded and balanced, very middle of the road.

Did you predict that I read I would predict not…

aw! thats cute! he thinks that HIS news source isnt biased!

Simply adorable!

And we will continue our even program of Dantes Peak

It would be fairly easy for the nations of the world to all go to war … but what is the objective here? Are we trying to rid the planet of the last great despot? Hardly. Human nature says that the monkey which makes it to the top of the heap always shits on the monkeys at the bottom.

The circumstances behind this attack on Iraq, by the son of the person who attacked them the first time, must be understood before a more effective solution can be reached.

Those circumstances are: (1) petroleum; and (2) the Euro.

In the past, oil transactions were denominated in the “Petro-Dollar.” Wonderful situation for the USA because we own the piggy-bank. Want more dollars? Add one sentence to any ol’ 300-page mega-bill and … the government “borrows” dollars from itself “with the full faith and credit of the United States.” No other country on earth can do it. America “borrows” +/- $1 million from itself every minute, 24/7. As you will see in a moment, this magic only works because the dollar has value through other reasons… and one of the biggest reasons, arguably the only significant one, is oil.

Quite sensibly, when the European Union experiment did get off the ground successfully, oil producing nations became interested in denominating transactions in Euros. In November of 2002 (note: some say 2000; I believe that to be a typo), Iraq did so. (For a very informative article on the subject (for example), see Or any one of the 3,050 pages retrieved by a Google search for “iraq oil euros dollars denominate OR denominated.”) On March 19, 2003, Iraq was invaded.

Venezuela also embraced the Euro. On April 11, 2002, a failed coup occurred there.

Maybe you like, or maybe you categorically bristle against, a Russian viewpoint? I submit that it is the viewpoint of a major oil-producer with very difficult logistics … an interesting article concerning prices which also brings out the point that “you cannot simply switch off the flow (to wait for a price rise) because it clogs up the pipes and the wells, 30 or 40 per cent of which cannot then be switched back on again.”

(Please note that since the above article was written, the American occupation forces switched Iraqi oil sales to “Dollars Only.” Amazing, isn’t it? Also note that because oil prices have risen, the high price you pay for oil is also the high price paid by everyone else … which means more dollars to pay for the war. Not what the Russian author feared.)

Quoting the article Oil, Dollars, Euros, and Dead Iraqi’s, by Nick Beams, at, we see:

When the Gulf War was launched in 1990, an historic transformation had recently taken place in the financial position of the US. For the first time since it became the pre-eminent capitalist power in 1914, the US had become an indebted nation. In the decade and a half since then, it has become the most indebted nation in history.

On the latest estimates, US debts to the rest of the world total more than $2.7 trillion, equivalent to more than one quarter of gross domestic product. To finance this debt, the US requires an inflow of around $2 billion per day from the rest of the world. One of the main reasons the US is able to attract such a massive inflow (amounting to around two-thirds of the international surpluses generated in the world economy) is the role played by the dollar as the central international reserve currency. It has been estimated that by the late 1990s more than four-fifths of all foreign exchange transactions and half of world exports were denominated in dollars, with dollars accounting for about two-thirds of all official currency reserves.

But the establishment of the euro by the European Union means that a potential rival has emerged on the international economic scene. At first, the continued rise of the dollar meant that the euro was not an attractive proposition. But the situation has changed with the collapse of the US share market bubble. Since the end of 2000, the dollar has fallen by more than 15 percent against the euro.

Dr. Dr. Bulent Gokay, Senior Lecturer in International Relations and Director of European Studies Programme SPIRE, at Keele University, Staffs ST5 5BG, England, UK, writes eloquently in the article I shall limit my quote to the last two, concluding paragraphs, to wit: (emphasis mine)

It is really surprising how little the topic of reserve currencies has been discussed. As of 30 December, 2003, the euro was worth 25% more than the dollar. With an additional ten member states (from May 2004) the EU represents an oil consumer 33% larger than the US. The fact that following this enlargement 60% of OPEC oil will be imported by the EU, from a purely economic perspective it would make sense for Iraq (and all other OPEC countries) to require payment for oil in euros, not dollars. If OPEC were to decide to accept euros for its oil, then American economic dominance would be practically over.

The US, in alliance with the British, has intervened in Iraq militarily in March 2003, installed its own authority to run the country. Soon after the invasion it was announced that payment for Iraqi oil would be in dollars only. But the story does not end there. Paradoxically, despite all these recent military and political advances and the fast increasing grip of the US military power in Eurasia, for a variety of economic and political reasons, it appears that a growing number of oil producers in the Middle East, South America, and Russia are talking openly trading their commodity for euros instead of dollars, or perhaps denominate oil in a “basket of currencies”.

3,047 articles left to go, and there might be 100 more tomorrow. You see my point.

Nations don’t go to war for altruistic reasons. America is going to war because it thinks it has to. It really does not care that Hussein is an evil person. Like other nations, America considers bad-men as useful as long as they remain cooperative:

A recent article by Dr. Noam Chomsky, at, says in part:

Throughout history, even the harshest and most shameful measures are regularly accompanied by professions of noble intent – and rhetoric about bestowing freedom and independence. An honest look would only generalize Thomas Jefferson’s observation on the world situation of his day: “We believe no more in Bonaparte’s fighting merely for the liberties of the seas than in Great Britain’s fighting for the liberties of mankind. The object is the same, to draw to themselves the power, the wealth and the resources of other nations.”

The Internet is the greatest information resource ever known to man. Use it, and defend it while you still can. You don’t have to rely upon the 6 o’ clock news. You don’t have to rely upon any magazine. You can find the information for yourself, and find so much information from so many world-wide sources that you can, like any good researcher, weigh it for yourself. The research for this piece took approximately ten minutes.

Library’s open. Start reading. Turn off the news, close the newspapers, and start reading as if you life depends upon it, because, oh 18-25 year old male citizen, :o it does.

Petroleum, by itself, is definitely “enough” to ignite World War III, and if it does ignite, you especially are cannon-food. But you are also old enough to vote, and you have fingertip access to the Internet through which you can educate yourself.