War against Iraq justify ?

I just found out about the corruption between the UN and Iraq. There has been a scandal involving the oil-for-food program that gave saddam hussain 5 billion dollars in illegal funds and for turning a blind eye against crimes and corruption. This corruption had been held secret with in the UN. I’m wondering if Bush led the war against Iraq to expose the corruption, since the world will be against the attack against the UN. This is also the reason that a global organization is a bad idea and is also why I’m against it.

this is news now?

well, at least it is becoming much more public knowledge, but the news channels I watch have been talking about it for some time (for news now, and previously cnn). That said, it wasn’t mentioned at all [that I recall] before 2001, but it would surprize me if people didn’t know about this.

wow, that is a stretch I haven’t seen before.

The oil for food scandal is a big deal, but that proves it is Bush’s fault (to expose the scandal).

Old news. The U.S has been arguing the system was plagued with cheating since its inception. Many other UN programs are just as bad. There was so much corruption that hearings were held in the US Senate. A lot of US funding was withheld from the UN until they started cooperating and investigating.

Saddam played the UN like fools and took advantage of the greed of many members as well as individuals.

No reasonable person in the US has trusted France since Chirac sold the Osirak reactor to Iraq back in 79-80 (the one Israel blew up in 1981).

The UN pretty much blew it in Rwanda (not doing anything), then reinforced it with all of the Iraqi resolutions that weren’t enforced. I was waiting for the UN to put Iraq on double-secret probabtion as a compromise to stop the US from attacking.

If it was just to expose wrong-doing within the UN, I wouldn’t support. That’s not nearly a good enough to reason to kill people. (in fact, there are few “good” reasons)

I cant get news because i have this crazy idea that its all propaganda…

It is. I just heard this on CNN. The fact to go to war just to expose corruption is only a small part about. If this practice was allow to go on, then you can pretty much bet that Saddam would be much stronger with all the bad the money can be use for. This also proves that the UN and all global relation shouldn’t be united. I really have trouble hearing what kerry has to say about working with the UN. If he gets in power, no telling how bad it will been.

I find that really ironic coming from someone living in the United States of America… :wink:

Martin

I find that really ironic coming from someone living in the United States of America… :wink:

Martin[/quote]

Acttaully he’d rather them be the Anarchist States of America, where there’s this crazy law about land being a man’s hood or soemthing…

:stuck_out_tongue: (that was a joke, not harm intended)

I find that really ironic coming from someone living in the United States of America… :wink:

Martin[/quote]

I’m more of a believer of the state of the union, I believe that the state should not be control by federal government. Instead the Federal government and the congress acts more like a king then a independent state. And yes that’s a loyal Republican position.

That’s not a “Republican” position (assuming that you’re speaking of the party, and not the real meaning of “republic”). That position has long since been abandoned by both parties. And anyone who know’s anything about the civil war knows that “state’s rights” were a sizeable reason as to why the south wanted to seperate from the union.

And for your information, the democrats at that time were the one’s who held that position. As well as the slavery position. The Republican party–the majority fo it anyway–was born in oposition to these positions.

regardless it would be better. A united states is no different then international court or international welfare. At least a separate power of the state would make it more difficult for mass tyranny. And by the way the 13, 14, 15 amendment is illegal. So regardless if it’s no longer practice, it’s a crime that deserve a death sentence

Did you know a confederacy was in place before we switched to federal system?

The nation quickly became stagnant. For many many years this system worked. We can both agree on that. However FDR came into office and said that the constitution was fluid, dynamic document, not a static one. That’s where we have a lot of problems of government over stepping it’s place and ignoring citizens. That’s by not means a crime worth hanging, but it is crime. One that if the people of the united states saw for what it was it would punished. Far too many people fail to even understand or want to understand the constitution, thus they have no need to stop crimes against our freedoms. I agree on many of the basic things you believe, maybe not to your extreme, but I do.

A crime by the government is the worst kind of crime. And I really don’t like them seeing get away with a slap on the wrist. I don’t care how good it is, it still must be justify. And that illegal act was also what led to the illegal IRS, which start around the 16th amendment. I don’t doubt that there are some good ones, however we need to abolish the unlawful ones and reinsert the good ones that we have, such as blacks the right to vote, however I kind of worry about womens right to vote, since they only go by good looks and emotion.

On that we agree.

/me grabs calendar and marks today’s date with an X. The first day I agreed with Al_Capone.

Oh wait, I think I did that once last year too. Might has well make it an annual celebration. :stuck_out_tongue:

And you were the one accusing osxrules of using stereotypes? Sheesh…

Needs one to get to know another I guess :wink:

Martin

And you were the one accusing osxrules of using stereotypes? Sheesh…

Needs one to get to know another I guess :wink:

Martin

Sorry, it must of been the bias media that keeps pointing us in this direction. I’m sure they’re full of it, but I wonder what will happen if it’s true. Think about it, A Nazi as president because of female majority that think the guy is good looking and plays a well game.

blah blah blah insert politically insulting comments that make your blood boil here

Blah blah blah have a wee cry here, and get all hot and bothered

Blah blah blah terrorist

blah blah blah the US is evil

Blah blah blah “a mans land is his hood”, i totally agree Al_cap, it certainly is is hood, now stop doing weed in your hood

blah blah blah spam

Blah Blah Blah Alltaken

sorry guys, not meaning to take the piss…ok i am, but i am a hypocrit, coz frankly its normally me having these debates LOL

What are you getting at ?

What is this flood of recent political thread? Don’t you have anything else to talke about?

If you want my opinion on this subject - yes! this war is justified. It’s the fact that the americans are still there that doesn’t have much justification. Sadam had to go - It doesn’t have anything to do with WMD. I belive that there are many more dictatorships that should follow his path. But Somthing got fucked up somewere along the way, cause now it seems people are in favour of peace (nothing wrong here) but againts changing sick and undemocratic dictators? If you ask me that is rather selfish and hypocratic. And all those political fashions! It’s a fashion to hate Americans all over the world and It’s a fashion to hate french people in the US and it’s a world wide fashion to hate Israel. Focus People! you should focus on the important things! freedom and democracy and human rights! When you have a democracy that viloating human rights use democratic means to effect it and it’s population to change the government, but when you have a dictatorship that makes it and leave no other means, than by all means (figure of speach - I don’t amplying usage of wmd) dethrone it. In a world like that where all democratic political systems must surrender to fashion whimps and to extrimists only so they could stay in “power” ("", because they are practicly powerless), and in which there are more non-democratic governments than democratic no wonder a bodie like the UN is so courropted and hypocratic. And this is only a small part of the causses that brought the world to such poor and idiotic present - and everyone are responsible for this - no one is clean.

sorry for the long post and for any spelling mistakes.

@ner, you know that I just have to reply to what you say… even for the sake of just replying :slight_smile:

If you want my opinion on this subject - yes! this war is justified. It’s the fact that the americans are still there that doesn’t have much justification.

I have to disagree… the bases on wich the war was started is absolutely not justified… The war was based on lies and it’s known…
I do agree though that saddam had to go, but I disagree about the way it was done. They should have been able to get rid of him in a different way.

The fact that the americans are still there is unavoidable, because they cannot retreat now… it will only make them look bad… like they went to ware for nothing.

cause now it seems people are in favour of peace (nothing wrong here) but againts changing sick and undemocratic dictators?

You have a point… sometimes it’s hard… but at least they should try …

It’s a fashion to hate Americans all over the world and It’s a fashion to hate french people in the US and it’s a world wide fashion to hate Israel.

Well, the hate for america and israel is with reason… there are reasons for that because of the things both countries do … I don’t know if you know what your own country is doing, cause I know about all the censurship in israel, but I can really understand that some ppl hate israel … b.t.w. I am not saying that I am one of them, I am the cheese in a sandwich…

sorry for the long post and for any spelling mistakes.

At least I feel like replying and that’s not often anymore on elysiun. Gone are the days… haha bavakasha.

md01

ahah… hahaahahaaaa… heeheeehaaahaHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAA!!!

I just heard this on CNN. The fact to go to war just to expose corruption is only a small part about. If this practice was allow to go on, then you can pretty much bet that Saddam would be much stronger with all the bad the money can be use for. This also proves that the UN and all global relation shouldn’t be united. I really have trouble hearing what kerry has to say about working with the UN. If he gets in power, no telling how bad it will been.

Dude, that is the funniest thing I have hear in a while. Thanks, man, seriously. I was having a bad day: fight with the girlfriend, blackout at work… you cheered me right up. Bush made up the WMDs to expose the corruption. HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Did you ever watch “Inspector Gadget”? It reminds me of one of those episodes where Gadget didn’t wtf was going on, and he solved the crime, uncovered the plot, and got all the credit. Just by bumbling into the wrong place at the right time.

Bush went to war to help his electoral ratings. He used 9/11 as an excuse, as a launching pad. Thankfully, New Yorkers are smarter than all that, didn’t appreciate it, and voted the Repubs right the hell out of office.

If there was corruption, great! But Saddam was an evil man in the 70s and 80s. To give the credit to Bush is just stupid.