Well...That's one Laptop Down...

Technical Support Technical Support
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So after three trips to Afghan, and countless hours working Blender, my Studio 1558 Laptop’s motherboard has finally given up the ghost…Managed to save my stuff, up until a week or so ago, so it’s not all bad…

Well, I have two options - It won’t be for a while, as Christmas is around the corner but…

Do I upgrade my laptop? New motherboard / Chip / CPU Fan will be about £400+ including ancillaries (Arctic paste etc). That’s upgrading from an I3 to an I5, and nothing else…

ORRRR…

Do I go for a desktop? I don’t plan on going back to the desert again, and if I do, I won’t really be using Blender. I looked at cost of parts, and it should cost around £700 without monitors for a full on desktop with the below setup.

Intel I7 3700K (3.5GHZ Quad)
Liquid Cooling - Is it really worth it?
16GB Ram
Nvidia Geforce GTX660 2GB (I’ve never used cycles as I had an ATI Radeon in my laptop…heard the 550’s are better though?)

As well as the other misc stuff, win7 64Bit, fan controller, 3TB HD blah blah blah…

So…questions? Upgrade laptop at half the cost of a decent desktop? Is liquid cooling really worth it? And is the GTX500 series better for cycles than the 660? (I think it’s cheaper too!), and what would 3.5GHZ overclock to?

Oh, also - SSD’s…Good? Not good? Noticed they are expensive per GB, but the speed must be worth it (even if it’s only used for a boot drive?)

Any help / pointers / etc would be much appreciated, as well as anything else you guys think I’ve missed!

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This really depends on how much you want to stay portable. Desktops are generally more powerful and more easily maintained (parts) but of course they are anchored bricks; nothing you don’t already know.

SSDs are good if you set them up right. Something like have your main system on the SSD but the datafiles (at least backed up) on another drive. When an SSD goes it dies completely and there aren’t the recovery options available that traditional drives give.

You’re asking questions that will have many conflicting opinions.

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Definitely get the desktop (since you say portability isn’t going to be an issue). Much better hardware options for much better performance.

The GTX660 will be fine for Cycles GPU rendering and has the advantage over the 550 that it can be found with up to 3GB VRAM (when you use GPU rendering the whole scene has to fit in the GPU VRAM). Plus the 660 should work about as fast as the 550. Each 6xx series card is about 15% slower at GPU rendering than it’s 5xx counterpart but have more VRAM available.

As for liquid cooling, I use it but only on my GPUs. They get really hot when rendering. Remember that if you are using GPU Cycles then the CPU doesn’t do much during the render (at least for now, I don’t know if they have any plans to ever include hybrid rendering).

I like having a small (120GB) SSD for my boot drive - keeps everything moving at a nice pace - and use additional hard drives for file storage and backup.

Cheers, and hope that helps at all.
Jon

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Hi Phoenix492,

is your laptop’s HD Ok? I wonder if you could just plug it into another new laptop? At least you
should be able to put it in an external drive case and transfer the data if not the OS (Windows).

In any case, recommend a new laptop with an i7 or equivalent AMD cpu & 15.6" screen.
Here’s just one of many available at Amazon.

Last year I bought a 17" ASUS G73 “Republic of Gamers” laptop after using a 15.6" HP for 4yrs.
The ASUS is a great machine, and is king at the coffee shop, but a lot to lug around, so recommend a smaller one.

In addition, get (preferably build) a desktop with a 500 series GPU for fast Cycles renders, a cheap GTX 210 ($10)
for display, and an AMD CPU for BI renders. I built one and it runs great even on 4gb ram (though will add more later).

Why be tied to only a desktop when you’re away from home (even if you aren’t in the desert)? Or to a laptop when you need the speed of a GPU? Get both to have your cake and eat it, too.

BTW, I wouldn’t try to do GPU rendering on a laptop…they’re too hot.
Just use the laptop to create a scene to render later on the desktop’s GPU.

Blender runs great even on my old HP6226 (5yrs old)…and I just keep the parameters dialed back for test renders.

You should be able to have both for ~$1600 US. One way to keep the price down for the desktop is to get
a “previously aquired” GPU. My used Zotac GTX580 cost $253.

Just depends on your budget & lifestyle, whether you like to animate, how complex your scenes are, how patient you are, etc.

Decisions, decisions, decisions. :smiley:

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Thanks for the replies guys, some interesting ideas, and definitely some directions to head in.

JonoTheWright, does your GPU really get that hot during rendering that you need to use liquid cooling? Sounds pretty extreme!

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Phoenix492 - you want the computer to render GPU / Cycles? => Desktop.

I was thinking you were talking about general modelling. I have two computers at my home base; a largish desktop I built purely for power rendering and performance when I really want it, and a laptop (not dissimilar to your own model) which I tout around the home as a portable workstation. Of the two, the laptop gets the most use but I wouldn’t give it a large rendering job which would risk cooking it.

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Yeah, my EVGA GTX 570 HD gets up to 97C if I just leave it. This is true of intense processing in general but is worse for me since I live in Hawaii and my ambient temperature seldom drops below 28C. The best air cooled cards I have tried are the FROZR series from MSI and the Classified from EVGA both stay around 15-20C cooler.

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my EVGA GTX 570 HD gets up to 97C if I just leave it
That’s toasty! :eek:

I had to lay my desktop on its side with the cover off and a desk fan blowing down into it just to keep the Zotac 580
down to 80C. It definitely makes a good space heater!

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The idea of two 3d cards is pretty intriguing, is this pretty common to have a decent card for you rendering (like a gtx series card) and another card for working in the scene like just a normal 1gb random 3d card? I did t even consider two cards, only the one for rendering and working together?

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Yes, using multi-cards setups is quite common. The cards can be completely different. Many people use a really cheap card to keep the display going while the other one renders but I prefer to have as many high end cards in the system as I can. That way I still have the advantage of having the system be usable while rendering on the non-display cards but can turn them all on to render whenever I need/ want to.

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My advice, be better than a laptop.

Be better.

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I prefer to have as many high end cards in the system as I can.

Jonothewright,

how many and what models do you have in one box? Did you need to get an oversized case
or motherboard?

I had no idea how big video cards are now…when I put a 460 in the computer I built last year, I thought that was
pretty big…then got the Zotac and thought, “OMG!! Are you kidding me!!!”

If the trend is more, bigger & hotter, maybe there should be a separate box just for the cards…not even a box, just rack
to hold them, and a smaller board with pci-e slots spaced to hold several cards.

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In my main production machine (modelling, video/ photo editing, etc…) I have both an MSI GTX 680 FROZR III (which I use mostly for display and rendering if I am not doing anything else) and an EVGA GTX 570 HD (for GPU rendering). The motherboard is a P6X58-EPRO and the case is a Bitfenix Shinobi. Koolance EXT-440 liquid cooling system for the GTX 570. There is space for a third GPU but since this isn’t my primary rendering machine I’m sticking with just the two to keep power consumption down a little.

You can actually get external PCI-e boxes that put several slots in 1 box. They are very expensive though. Luckily the trend was broken with the 6xx series. They are a little smaller and put on a little less heat the 4xx and 5xx series did.

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Neat.

How much faster is Cycles GPU rendering using both cuda cards together vs the 570 alone?

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It actually makes a really big difference. Almost doubles render times as opposed using just the one. I do regret having gotten the 680 with only 2GB when a little later they released a version with 4GB :frowning:

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What’s the difference between all the different GTX cards? I mean, I know that the TI cards are to be avoided due to their smaller number of cuda cores, but what about the EVGA, ASUS, Palit etc etc…

They all seem to be the same cards - GTX660 (for an example), all 2GB, all GDDR5, PCI-E cards…but different manufacturers? Is it just a cost thing? Or are there subtle differences that I can’t see (Other than the “look” of them)

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So how it works is that Nvidia design and build the actual GPU chips and build reference cards for each level of the series. The licensed manufacturers can then use exactly that design or modify it. The modifications vary but are generally in the way of different cooling solutions (lookup MSI FROZR III cooler versus the Asus cooler, integrated liquid cooled EVGA cards, etc…), overclocking, and more VRAM (you can get GTX 660s from MSI and EVGA with 3GB). Also, they can stray from the reference board layout, usually to accommodate extra, non-standard, features - this is not necessarily bad but does make it harder to attach other aftermarket cooling solutions (except for liquid cooling).

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Ahh, that’s what I thought - having only ever bought ATI cards before, it’s all a bit new - still, thanks Jon! Again!

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Ok, I’ve finally narrowed my selection of components down, and wondered if a few of you more experienced PC builders could cast an eye over it to ensure I’m not making any mistakes, or just give me some pointers…

Case:
Corsair C70 (http://www.ebuyer.com/388849-corsair-c70-vengeance-case-arctic-white-cc-9011019-ww) with as many fans as I can fit in it, it has space for 10. Including Seasonic 520W PSU (ATX12V I think it’s called)

Mobo:
ASROCK P67 (http://www.ebuyer.com/389282-asrock-p67-extreme6-motherboard-2nd-generation-core-i7-i5-i3-socket-lga1155-ip67-atx-p67-extreme6) Supports everything I need, hopefully!

CPU:
I7-2700K, 3.5GHZ Quad Core - No explanations really, fastest biggest chip right?

RAM:
Corsair Vengeance 16GB (4 * 4GB) - I’ve had corsair RAM before, no complaints, so wanted to go back. figured 4 boards of 4GB would mean I can upgrade to 32GB when I figure I need it

Storage:
120GB SSD - Boot Drive / Software Drive
3TB Seagate HDD - Backup / Storage. I might get a second if I can find a nice price, both configured to RAID1 (3TB because my current home Media drive is 3TB, so might back some of that up too)

Graphics Card:
Nvidia GTX680 (Of Course), 4GB - If I can find one cheaper than market price, if not, it will be the 2GB one, and get another later next year and SLI them…
Either : (http://www.ebuyer.com/414111-exdisplay-kfa2-gtx-680-ex-oc-4gb-gddr5-dual-dvi-hdmi-displayport-ebr1-68nqh6dn6dtz)
or : (http://www.ebuyer.com/353116-evga-nvidia-gtx680-1006mhz-6000mhz-2048mb-256-bit-ddr5-2-dual-dvi-hdmi-dp-02g-p4-2680-kr)

Sound Card:
Asus Xonar 24-Bit Random Card…

Drive:
Blu-Ray Reader, DVD R/RW by Asus…Whatever I can find really - Prefer a Blu-Ray Writer, but too expensive - maybe in the future.

OS:
Win 7 64 Bit Professional - I think this is the 32 GB RAM supported one…

Monitor:
Asus 24" VE248H - Cheap and Cheerful 24" monitor…

So apart from some anti-static gloves, Thermal Paste, possibly an aftermarket CPU cooler (Thinking the Cooler Master 212), and keyboard / mouse that are comfy…What have I missed?

So, any pointers / Crits / hints? Cheers Guys!

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Hi, looks good, the I7-2700K is the “old” Sandy Brige CPU IIRC the i7-3770K 4x 3.50GHz is about 30% faster and 30% more expensive.
You don´t need 7 Professional for 32 GB support.

Cheers, mib.