What Happened? (Mods, please don't remove)

Ok, I’m under the impression that what really happend with the whole Russia Georgia conflict is that Georgia attack S. Ossetia and Russia came in and defended it to protect some of it’s people.

But what I’d like to know is what do the Russians/Georgians think? What really happened? Cause honestly I’m not buying what the Western News is selling, not one bit.
I know this is political, but I think we can have a decent, respectful, discussion on this topic seeing how it’s not 100% about politics, but more about news and opinions.

This is a Russian that supports what I’m thinking is true:

Faux originally tried to play these folks as some sorta heroic drama, until they told the truth:


we dont have any more access to info than you have. you might jump on irc and see if anyone is online from the area for a first had acount that speaks english.

Gald to hear not everyone is swallowing the crap that the news station throw at us. Thats a nasty conflict with a lot of bitterness on both sides. Lets hope we’ve seen the worst of it

The American Newsmedia claims that Russia invaded Georgia. They don’t ever say why though.

Anyway, you’re right not to trust the media. I hope to gain some insight on the situation as well.

My understanding is that during the Soviet era, when all the republics were ‘one big happy family’ a lot of Russians moved to Ossetia, both north and south, so it became something like Florida, mostly populated by people not from around there. When the Soviet Union collapsed, Georgia claimed South Ossetia, but the now ex-patriate Russians didn’t much like that idea, so they set up a “semi-autonomous region” similar to seceding, but without it being official. Apparently the long term Ossetians didn’t much like the idea of rejoining Georgia, either, because it seems like 95% of the people who live in South Ossetia support not being Georgian.

So, since the actual border between Russia and Georgia was the boundary between North and South Ossetia, and the Georgians couldn’t manage that border because the South Ossetian’s wouldn’t let them, and they weren’t willing to manage the border between South Ossetia and the rest of Georgia, because that would legitimize the semi autonomy of South Ossetia, that part of the world became a big passageway for smuggling and other nefarious business. The Russians were not pleased, nor were the Georgians. South Ossetia became a political football.

The Russians warned the Georgians that any attempt by the Georgians to send troops to South Ossetia to scare the ethnic Russians out of their homes (ethnic cleansing) would be met by the Russian army, but the Georgians, who thought we had their backs, went and did it anyway. And got pushed back. There aren’t any clean hands here, on anyone’s side.

I hope this doesn’t mean WWIII…

In before lock.

What?! Us people without cable TV seem to miss a lot of… Interesting stuff.

Seriously, Orinoco’s post sounds like the plot to a Tom Clancy novel.

Now before you all go ahead and call this Anti-American or flag me as a “turrist,” (“terrorist,” for those who don’t speak American English) I want you to go ahead and objectively watch Fox News, CNN, etc and then decide which one of these is really the one that is trying to brainwash you.


On this topic…
Beside WW2…

The states “lately” attacked vietnam, afgahnistan, 2*irak for the greater good.
The russians lately attacked georgia for the greater good.
Nato/US/UNO send troops to ex-yugoslavia and almost everywhere else.

But if someone uses his brain its obvious this moves did not happen for the greater good - at least not as superior goal… There was always an economic gain. Oil, Gas, Ore, Workpower, Brainpower…

Why else would no one care about SriLanka, Jamaica, Simbabwe, Kongo… and the about 60 other countries in the world that have a civil war since the WW2?
African countries? hmm we can sell weapons to them, they are rich on gems of any kind…

And Tibet? I guess Russia and the states are afraid of china, the sleeping dragon. Liberation of tibet surely could pave the way to WW3.

Or what about Kashmir? ppl are suffering there over nothing at all… but why help? its just a swath of rocks… and bully india hmm they got coders en masse… or bully pakistan. well they got oil…

A lot to speculate and forge conspiracy theories…

And it doesn´t matter where you go, Western, Eastern, Central world. It´s all the same…

(my opinion in no way represents the opinion of others users here or the board owners, nor is it a fact or proven in any way and meant as thought provoking impulse - you can never be too careful posting involving any political statements)

South Ossetia is a part of Georgia. It is striving for independence (or to join russia) but when Georgia sent it’s troops in there it was still a part of Georgia and they had every right to defend their territorial integrity.

But what the hell kind of an excuse to invade another country is “We’re doing this to protect our citizens”? Any normal country would just encourage their citizens to leave there and not visit that place, but not Russia. And seeing as russian troops still haven’t withdrawn from South Ossetia and even Georgia I believe that they aren’t stepping down without some new territory for themselves.

But that’s just my opinion.

Well, most those Russian citizens have been living there for more than one generation. How would you like to be ordered to go live in some other country, just because your granpa lived there?
Also, were those American citizens, I wonder how the USA would have reacted. And how would Fox and CNN have covered it.

But what the hell kind of an excuse to invade another country is “We’re doing this to protect our citizens”?

Grenada, October, 1983:
“U.S. officials cited the murder of Bishop and general political instability in a country near its own borders, as well as the presence of American medical students at St. George’s University on Grenada, as reasons for military action.”

It’s a pretty common excuse, actually. Most of the colonial powers used it at some time or other to justify putting down colonial uprisings. The German Reich used it as an excuse to invade the Sudetenland, iirc.

And, as ebow3d pointed out, those Russian citizens had homes, farms, businesses in South Ossetia, they weren’t just tourists who happened to be visiting or going to schoool there. Russia is concerned that the South Ossetia residents who hold Russian passports will be forced from their homes and exiled, en mass, to North Ossetia or elsewhere outside of Georgia by Georgian forces, who have been threatening to do such things for a while now.

Russia doesn’t want any American or American allied military bases on their borders, and with the current US administration’s policy of pre-emptive war, I can’t say I blame them.

As a lead up to this fiasco, the United States scheduled its annual joint exercises with Russian border states in Georgia, where, as part of the exercise, the Georgian military was trained in theater opening operations, which they would only need if they were planning on establishing a new theater of military operations somewhere ie: invading somebody.

(LOTRJ – Tom Clancy doesn’t make that stuff up, you know, he just reads the news and changes the names.)

Well I don’t know much about the whole situation, but about the starting what I’ve been told is that georgian snipers started the incident, and it’s a fact that the georgian president was mobilising (if thats the proper word) a part of the georgian army and was stationing them close to the borders of south ossetia prior to the start. However there’s a good chance the russians where waiting for such a incident to happen, if u look at their response time, which makes u think there engines were already running …
Also the russians don’t want a nato member so close to their borders, which is probably 1 of the reasons why the russians immediatly send so many troops there,
which brings me to another point, the whole russian tank unit which was send to georgia is if i may believe the dutch media (who had some kind of dutch specialist on the relations of those countries in that area) is mostly just to show off power, çause they arent really usefull to fight in those areas (altho they might be usefull to create road blocks)
anyway my opinion is: “waar 2 vechten hebben 2 schuld”, which can be translated in where 2 fight 2 have blame

Hmm… So I guess it’s not a stretch to say that Fox and CNN are lying to us about this whole incident?
I do know they get info wrong, but I think they may in fact be lying about all this.

So how legit is the news group “Russia Today”? Is it controled and censored? A non-free press(Not that american media is much differnt than that)?:

Georgia Starts War on South Ossetia

CNN use footage of Tskhinvali ruins to cover Georgian report

Russia Today’s YouTube Channel

It might be worth taking note that in 2001 a game called Ghost Reacon was released. The plot, a war betwean Geaorgia and Russia. The date of this war, August, 2008.
Now as a conspiracy theorist (I am such because I have an open mind, not because I’m paranoid), there’s just a little too much coencidence here.


So how’s that diet coming along?

I believe the politically correct term for what Fox is doing is spinning. Is it really lying for Fox to broadcast brief mentions of scandals involving 30 different Republicans, and broadcast one scandal involving one Democrat for 30 days straight, 24/7, and then say, “Both parties do it?”

Everybody with a dog in the fight is going to spin, these days. There’s no substitute for critical thinking, if you really want to know what’s going on. You have to comb through the reports and sort out the facts from the interpretations, put together your own timeline or chain of cause and effect, and do the sort of research that news organizations used to do, back when there were legitimate news organizations.

Or, you just decide whose team you’re on, and root for that side, come hell or high water.

I don’t know much about this conflict but what I do know is that it is getting pretty crazy there, but I could get a lot worse…

If Russia becomes a Superpower again by the time China might, what would happen to these two countries existing so close to each other?

JackBlack, Fox and CNN are pro USA/Republican, however, they are not the only subjective news media companies,in fact I don’t think there actually are any truly objective, impartial news broadcasters on this planet. I’ll bet Russia Today is as impartial as Fox and CNN, they would just blow up another side of the same story. Like others have said here, critical thinking is the key. Listen to several different news agencies,and make up your own mind on a story.

If Georgia can separate from the Soviet Union, why can’t South Ossetia separate from Georgia? I see some double standards here.

It is striving for independence (or to join russia) but when Georgia sent it’s troops in there it was still a part of Georgia and they had every right to defend their territorial integrity.

You mean like Serbia had every right to defend its territorial integrity against the separatist movement in Kosovo? Double standards, again.

But what the hell kind of an excuse to invade another country is “We’re doing this to protect our citizens”?

Didn’t the US claim to invade Afghanistan and Iraq for the same reason after 9/11, i.e. to protect their own citizens from terrorist threats, weapons of mass destruction etc.? Even more double standards.

Any normal country would just encourage their citizens to leave there and not visit that place

It certainly seems that Tskhinvali was attacked in order to encourage Russian and South Ossetian people to leave the region. You call it “encouragement to leave”, others call it ethnic cleansing.