What happened to unlimited clay ?

So what’s the consensus? It seems that judging from the posts here there’s just no contentment when it comes to sculpting tools. Why do people prefer to wait rather than do something to acquire the best at the moment. Is Zbrush still the king when it comes to sculpting or what? If I need one really badly, then I’d do anything to get it legally, ie, work extra hours, pan handle, beg people for money, you name it. Why wait years and years when you can have the tools now?

I hate this mentality that people procrastinate waiting for something that may never come…

Cycles isn’t “production ready” yet, but it can certainly be used in production! just not for everything…
Don’t have unlimited clay but like that style of work? Use sculptris! (or indeed 3d coat)

It’s sad that unlimited clay is stalled, but even if it was here now it only means we have an open source cross platform alternative to sculptris for the future! it won’t change how we work! you’ll still have to sketch out in unlimited clay, retopologise and finish in multires…

I don’t see anyone “waiting”, you really can imagine someone that is sitting in front of Blender since UC was announced and that has not sculpted anything anywhere up to now ?

If the Blender tools do not satisfy, the solutions are easy as already mentionned : depending on your budget range, using Sculptris for free up to the expansive Zbrush are working alternatives.
With the import/export you can then get your Blender work sculpted and re-exported with those applications.

My personnal preference goes to Sculptris without any contest as it is the only application in which i “feel” sculpting to be natural and not a process of fighting with an interface like in Zbrush, and the “face only where needed” allow to sculpt very detailled pieces without needed very high total face count.
Making it great for export to Blender for retopo and more without having Blender viewports crawling.

That’s too why people were so hopefull with UC in Blender.
Despite the obvious 2.5x and gsoc improvements, performance is always problem with Blender as it’s not that good and smooth sculpting in it at very high polycount required for real fine detailling (in the trial version of zbrush i was very surprised to be able to push up to 16 millions of poly while the sculpting was remaining as smooth as with the starting sphere, while Blender become sluggish for me when i’m reaching between 1 and 2 millions).

Hopefully once bmesh is fully implemented and working, we’ll see more of those features and functions developers have put on hold for the feature freeze and until bmesh implementation.

Although, in fairness, Dr. Petter had already said that he was doing no more work on Sculptris, so that may have happened anyway. A pity. It’s a great little app…

In the same time they recently released alpha 6 (though the changes are mostly about integrating the goz thing and making a Mac version , alpha 6 works the same as alpha 5 out of these), so hopefully Sculptris development is not fully dead.
But even if dead, it’s always now a very great application for sculpting.

No ,you said LACK . I always heard about it it doesn’t have this and that o no it doesn’t paint pfffff.

Maybe you want  some else do  the job for you  :).   or maybe you are a child ?  :).

The artist is yourself the soft is only a complement .
I have a curiosity to see your work

I thought quite some time if I should just ignore you or actually answer.

I colorfully illustrated what Blenders sculpting is lacking to be considered comfortable to me. I told the alternatives, and compared to the alternatives I used, Blenders sculpting is not good. But I guess it´s no use to talk about that to someone with “Interests: ONLY BLENDER” on his profile page? :wink:
That said, what´s your problem anyways? I dont like Blenders sculpting, what is it to you? Next you´ll be telling me what food I have to like? Meh, just go away.

Although I have no idea what you want to say, I feel insulted.

Good, then I´ll ask you to do a marble statue with an old wooden spoon if the artist counts and not the tool. Maybe someone invents a metal spoon next, but surely there´s no need to use hammer and chisel, why work comfortably if only the art counts.
Besides that, there´s that insultive tone again.

I don’t really mind what you eat ;).

I used several softs before use Blender :eyebrowlift: , and say that Blender is not good , i can say you don’t really know use Blender anyway it doesn’t mind me again

read what you wrote :no:
Now, i really sure you are another little boy :evilgrin: .

How can you know?

How can you be?

Do you actually have something constructive to say at all or are you just here for random assumptions and insults running around telling everyone sounding any critique at all on Blender how awesome it is?

for the record, lightwave 10 IS the fruition of lw core… on a side note with or without uc…blender sculpting is still very good…specially sincve it is an all around package, unlike z-brush or 3dcoat which focus primarily on sculpting.

Simple , with your answers

Insults?? because i said to you little boy i’m insulting you? :).

Blender it’s really good

That’s the true :wink:

Going back to Farsthary behaviour, I really don’t think that we have to evoke ADD to explain it.

The problem is that software development is not, repeat not, a pleasant activity. Let me explain it (after more than 25 years I know something on the subject). When you start a software project, you are excited. Everything is new, you see your creature growing every day, every task brings rewards. This blissful phase is short, trust me. Sooner or later (usually sooner) the excitement goes away: you are confronted with repetitive tasks like writing documentation, fixing bugs (often throwing away a whole day just to fix some stupid typos), coding tests, running regression tests, verifying builds on different platforms (and making stuff work the same way on all of them), handling customers requests (often idiotic), handling boss deadlines (nearly always totally deranged) and so on. All this stuff is as pleasant as a trip to your dentist.

When the dentists-phase comes in, there are two alternatives: either you bite the bullet and keep working or you abandon the project. The first option happens only if you have some kind of reward (like not being fired by your boss or not being sued by your clients) otherwise it is inevitable that the program ends up like thousands of others: a rotting, abandoned, corpse.

If you don’t believe it, go to Sourceforge and check the percentage of the projects which go beyond the have-not-yet-released-files/alpha: they are a tiny minority.

Farsthary is not working on UC because it has gone beyond the blissful phase and because he has to handle his obbligation w.r.t. 3D Coat consultancy.

Dreams die at dawn, ideals when you get the bills.

Just ignore him, I think he enjoys provoking/getting an annoyed reaction just by the look of those smileys he puts after every comment.

In other news, Farsthary did put a post on his blog about UC, so I’m guessing there’s no need for us to abandon hope so quickly!

Damn I have a magical 3d-coat then because it does a lot more then sculpting. The sculpting part is something I only use for 50% of the time.

It comes all down to a matter of personal preference and what feels good. I prefer Sculptris and 3d-coat for sculpting, others zbrush or blender… Thats how ot works in a lot of things.

And btw the as like any package Blender isn’t perfect, it doesn’t help Blender one bit to state otherwise of shouting the Blender fanboy mantra… It always the same tune “Blender is perfect in comparison with other package”, “a particular feature isn’t helpfull… that until Blender gets it”, “you aren’t good enough because a true artist can transcend the software”,

The solution is keep it secret until it’s completely ready. People are like little kids these days. They want new toys everyday. And when they get one, they’ll get bored playing with it in a week or less, then they want another new one.

I’ve been in forums after forums. The waiting never ends. Reminds me also when those Silo guys promised to deliver sculpting tools plus additional features. Users were waiting as if such features will be ready in a few weeks or so. Took the devs more than two years when they finally came up with something. You can imagine the frenzy day in and day out in various forums, not to mention the main Silo forum. They finally did it. Were people satisfied with the result? Apparently not.

Unlimited clay just seams like a bit of a fad now, about the only thing I find it useful for (Sculptris) is a sort of sketch pad/idea generating, if you look beyond that a well planned out character or other sculpt can be easily done in Blender as well, not to mention adding something like a belt or hard surface parts is just as easy as zBrush, the Lara model/walk through in the Gallery section is a perfect example.

However I feel some what lazy towards the sculpting in Blender and rarely use it as much as I should, I guess that comes down to a lack of knowledge about the tools and how to set them up, that and I find the Interface for it a little bit awkward, but I’m probably just spoiled by how user friendly Sculptris is. Oh and then there’s the performance issue I have with it, I’m still stuck on Vista 32bit with 3gig of ram and a 6 year old AMD 5200+ dual core, but alas, that’s my problem :slight_smile:

Oki, the whole point of sculptris is to free you up… it’s supposed to be a sketchpad!

If you’re working from well thought out concept art then I agree there’s no point to it…

BUT If you’re trying to design something in 3d, if you need to experiment with masses and forms then sculptris for example is a freeing experience…

A loose and pointless head doodle can easily become a full body treatment and a workable maquette for a finished design…

Spontaneous and rapid exploration is the key…

and I’d say that graphics card is the biggest factor in sculptris performance…

Agreed totally, hopefully Pixologic will keep the program free, or at least keep it to a sensible cost, I’d love to pick up zBrush, but when your a hobbyist with a small family to look after I can’t justify a months rent, I couldn’t imagine the wife agro that would bring! On the doodle side of things, it’s the reason why I’m looking forward more to the Skin Modifier than Unlimited Clay, that would make Blender sculpting a bit more desirable for the same purpose. Running an ATi 5770 on here, Sculptris is very quick I’m just always limited to within 1.5mil tris in it, but that’s the the 32bit issue really.

I would like to add a question about Sculptris and the graphics card: I’ve noticed that the graphic card (at least mine) builds up a lot of heat when using Sculptris and will do this even if when Sculptris is just open and nothing is being done, but if the Sculptris window is minimized the the card get cooler again.

I don’t know if the build up of heat of the graphic card is an issue when it comes to the longevity of the graphic card, (but I do tend to minimize the window when I take a break to get the card cool again…)Anyway could someone who knows give me some info about that?.. Like if there is some temperature that should not be exceeded for the sake of the graphic card’s health and such. I would really appreciate an answer especially since my computer is getting old and it will still take some years before I could afford a new one.

I think when you minimize something in windows, and probably ubuntu/linux as well, the graphic card will stop drawing to the screen entirely for that application. As far as temps go, well I don’t think one would want to be running above 90 degrees celcius consistently.


It really depends on what card you have and what temperatures you reach to make any assumptions or recommendations.
Your whole post is rather useless saying that your graphic card gets hot.
For one card 50°C is hot, for the other 100°C, and “hot” itself is a rather unspecific term. :wink:

AMDs HD5000/6000 series has the temperature throttle at 120°C IIRC.
The max. reference temperature for Nvidia Fermi cards is 105°C IIRC.
Under full load the first reference cards of those series ran with 85-95°C which then can most likely be considered “safe”
Nonetheless, the cooler an electric component runs, the longer it lives as the thermal stress ages the parts rapidly.

And as lfrisken said, it stops drawing. Scultpris is an OpenGL app, and OpenGL is a state machine, it is aware if it has to redraw or not. Personally I think Scultris is badly coded when it comes to OpenGL. Take Blender. Blender only redraws if something changes. So the display is like “frozen” if you don´t rotate, pan, whatever and mouse movement and menu usage only runs with low framerates.
Sculptris runs with either 60fps/120fps whatever your screens v-synch is, if you have enabled it all the time. Even if you do nothing. It keeps redrawing the same framebuffer over and over again. It stops to redraw though if the window is out of focus. You don´t even need to minimize it, just alt+tab or click on another window.
I consider that a waste of energy.
It has one advantage though. The card does not change powerstate. Modern cards have powerstates with different clocks.
Both AMD and Nvidia cards enter a lower powerstate if they got nothing to do and reduce their clocks and voltages, and as soon as there is load on the GPU again, it raises the powerstate, clocks up and raises the voltages again. While it is economical, it can be a PITA, especially working with Blender, why some deactivate it.
For instance, you rotate your scene, select an object and start working on it´s material, as soon as the 3d viewport does not need update, the card enters the lower powerstate. Now your material is nice and you need to rotate the scene, now the viewport is sluggish and slow for just a second, because it takes some time for the card to enter the higher powerstate again. As I said it can be annoying at times :slight_smile:

How so?
Or you mean it´s pointless to try to do a full char in Sculptris only? basemodel->sculpt->retopo->normalbaking->texturepaing? Then I got to agree :smiley:

Other than that I find sculptris “rather” enjoyable especially in combination with Blender. I actually use just this at the moment for a cinemaspot where I got char references. Shape it up in Blender, Sculpt in Sculptris, Retopo, Bake and Paint in Blender again.
But I started to look into Topogun and 3DCoat because retopo in Blender is not that enjoyable, I might as well just sub-d model it from scratch lol. (waiting for Alekzsander again to tell me how awesome Blenders retopo is, as I remember there was this thread if we want autoretopo for blender or i think it was advanced masking, where he basically said to those opting for autoretopo, that blenders retopo is great and we´re all just lazy fools not able to use it ^^)

And I got to agree 3DCoat feels akward at the beginning, but you get into it quite fast. It somehow has a look and feel of Windows 3.11 in the start but making a good UI without using any licensed libs is rather cumbersome and 3DCoats strenghts really lie elsewhere.

I just mean that if your trying to work with character sheets you can start with a base mesh that is built to that and it’s going to be efficient… then use something like blender or zbrush that can handle 10+ million polys for your detailing…

If you are “thinking and designing” as you go then sculptris is a much better choice… lots more freedom to go "i think this guy needs some horns now… or a TAIL or for the more “reality based” ears are a treat in sculptris!.. or add a weapons belt or backpack… but even on great hardware sculptris dies above 1.5 million but then you don’t need as much because the dynamic tesselation goes further!

I’ve done several characters in sculptris then retopo in blender and baked displacements or used shrinkwrap to transform details into a multires modifier for further detailing or whatever…

Retopo in blender is only painful for me because of occlusion and visibility problems… but autoretopo like 3d coat would be very welcome!

TBH it’s not the look of the UI, more the feel of the brushes that I don’t like there… the autoretopo alone might be worth investing in a copy… though, but I’m not sure how licencing works… I’d like floating licences or being allowed to install it on a bunch of computers… I only use one at a time!

After many attempts I no longer use sculptris paint mode as it gets a pain to manage UVs an baking… If only blender’s paint mode had a rake tool! (here’s hoping Jwilkins will get that going… havent checked onion in a while!)

I really want to dive in and sort out the UI for blender’s paint mode…it’s way more complicated than it need be!