What is going on with Featured Row?

WARNING: THIS IS A LONG POST NOT FOR THE ADD-/ADHD-AFFLICTED.

I started this not to gather a lynch mob but because I am hoping to improve the Featured Row selection process of blenderartists.org. I’m glad I’m not the only madman here who feels this way. :laughing: In the end, we all are here because we like this site and its community.

Now, some replies:

@filibis, you make a good point, one I had in my head but not articulated. I feel if a work is to be considered for Featured Row, the post should cite as you say appropriate credits/links. I would go as far as to consider the software being used, as I question the validity of works posted here created in other CG apps and merely imported and rendered in Blender. If, as I’d mentioned before, this were a general 3d/CGI forum, I wouldn’t feel this way.

That said, everybody post whatever and whenever you like! By all means, show yourselves off! But to the “elite” voting Lounge members, don’t even consider the “modelled/sculpted in X, textured in Y, rendered in Blender” submissions, nice as they may be.

@Weekend and @Kobold: easy, boys! While I agree wholeheartedly with the sentiment, sarcasm will get us nowhere.

@peter18, you say…

…and as far as I’m concerned, that’s the way it should be! While CG is extremely technical, in the end we are all creating art. I personally don’t care how the engine is built, I want that car to go 0-to-60 in five seconds flat, so to speak. I personally could give a rat’s ass how many vertices or if there are ngons galore or all that other gearhead stuff…I wanna see beautiful pictures…but specifically created in Blender! You say you’re fine with the “made with X, Y and Z but Blender-rendered” works. I respectfully disagree because this site is called blenderartists.org, not threedeesoup.com. It’s like going to the GIMP forum to post work made in Photoshop.

In your second post you say…

…this is actually a very good idea. I personally don’t remember featured posts getting stale on Featured Row but that could be my failing memory! :laughing: I do understand and agree that Featured Row does need to keep fresh and I also like the idea of the simple renaming “Featured Posts of the Week”. At least it’s calling it what it is!

@BigBlend and @Sourvinos, while I totally agree and even stated in my flagged comment, art by nature is subjective. I’m not making any calls on “beauty” or the quality of the work; that’s for the voting members to decide, subjective as it may be. But you are both correct: it’s unfair to feature a work that is not much more than materials test render, especially when the poster of said work vaguely states as such. I also find it extremely surprising that noone of the voting members recognized it as such, especially since the same model was used in @pixelgrip’s post of almost two years ago, but he had the sincerity to explain in his post exactly what it was and what he was doing. Oh, well…nobody’s human.

@Metin_Seven, I was wondering when you’d show up to the party! :partying_face: Your comments and insights are always appreciated…by me, anyway. :heart: I agree wholeheartedly regarding the points you’ve made: as I said earlier, “art” has been, is and will always be subjective. “Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.” I personally don’t even care if they’re photorealistic or not :laughing:, it’s the complete effect of the work that matters. To beat my point to death, I’m not questioning the artistic decisions regarding Featured Row selection for one second. But inadvertently you made a point that is the crux of the problem, as I see it:

Is ZBrush’s Featured Row filled with entries made in Blender? I honestly don’t know; I’ve never frequented the site. I’m betting they’re filled exclusively with work made in ZBrush. So why is this site’s Featured Row often filled with work not made exclusively in Blender? Especially since Blender has the capability to model/sculpt/texture/render/post-process?!

@Piotr_Adamowicz, that’s fine. We all see posts that we don’t like. Your strategy is the best strategy. “If you don’t have anything nice to say, don’t say anything at all.” What kills me are people who go out of their way to insult without any constructive criticism!

And finally, @bartv, I totally realize that it’s not you alone that makes these decisions, but as the Administrator (and de facto Prime Minister of blenderartists.org Parliament) you are the “face” of this site. The buck stops with you, as they say. It’s not out of lip service that I say, and I’m not alone mind you, that we all appreciate your service to the community, what with you taking up the reins of the site some time ago, and all the technical/administrative work and difficulties of running a site of this scale. It’s nice to get a little recognition for a mostly-thankless job :heart:.

That said, if I may, I would like to make two suggestions to you and the voting members on Featured Row selection:

• All submissions considered for Featured Row must be at least modelled/sculpted and rendered in Blender. Texturing has always been a convoluted process so it’s only fair, even though some amazing materials can be and have been created solely in Blender procedurally and otherwise, that textures/materials may be created outside of Blender. I don’t see this as a major hindrance because for the most part of submissions already proudly add this information.

• All submissions considered for Featured Row must state all software used in its creation (including post-production) as well as any use of pre-made models not created by the submitter. It’s not fair to anyone that someone creates, for example, an archviz with sofas and beds from downloaded 3D models obtained and not created by the submitter. This is a bit stickier as I’ve noticed some featured works reluctantly admit this somewhere along the thread’s line. But if one wants to be considered, I think a bit of honesty should go along with the submission. Being humans, YMMV.

I think @peter18’s suggestion of simply renaming “Featured Row” to Featured of The Week/Month/Minute/Martian Year" is to be considered, or removing entirely this self-imposed time limit of weekly, even though Featured Row seems to move along at an undefined pace, usually daily-ish.

Short of removing the offending post from Featured Row, I would like to think that the voting members, however many they are (50-ish?), would be better informed of the goings-on of the CGI world in general and not let something like this happen in the future. Otherwise I really am going to post a series of Suzanne heads with different materials and textures once a day! :rofl:

I’ve said what I had to say. Resolve, ignore, whatever. PEACE, EVERYBODY! :v: :love_you_gesture:

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I Think You Are Beginner Or Something My Friend Think About What You Say There Is Shading Artist In Cg There Is Lighting Artist There Is Composition Process You Think PPl Doing These jobs Dont Derserv Feature Award? If This Is Easy Just Go Try It And Post Your Work … This Work Also Featured On https://cgsociety.org/c/featured/vdy3/realistic-shading-in You Think Everyone Are Wrong And What You Say Is Right ? :smiley: You Just Want To Destroy Ppl Motivation Pls Go Learn Something And Stop Destroying Ppl Work . When You Want To Find a Job You Will Learn These Stuff Later Dont Judge Admin In Blender We Have Rendering And Shading So No One Gonna Do Texuring On Blender So Go Reasearch And Learn Something Before You Judge Ppl Work And Save These Times To Learn More And Improve Your Skills .

Preaching European Political Correctness will?
No, says this guy from North America.

You Rly Cant Make Amazing Stuff Without Using Other Softwares Like We Use Zbrush For Sculpting I Know Blender Can Do That But Also Zbrush Can Do Texturing But No One Use Zbrush Texturing For Production They Use Mari And Substance And For Rigging And Animation We Have To Choose Blender Or Maya If You Are Saying u can Everything In Blender You Are So Wrong My Friend Or You Are Beginner Go Checkout Flippnormals Video Here : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0gjmE3hJ2M
I Used Blender Just For Shading And Lighting And Composition If U Dont Like it Just Dont Watch it :smiley: Im Very Happy With My result And Dont Disrespect in your Replays And I Want To Mention There Is Alot of works In Zbrush Central Made In Maya Mari And Other Softwares In Top Row So Just Do Some Reasearch Then Come Here And Talk .Im Rly Done With These Comments Here peace out

I should have expected this…

@Mohammad_Fakhri

First off, please don’t capitalize every word in your sentences. It makes it very hard to read what you’re trying to say.

Secondly, I think there’s some language barrier here.

I’m not saying you somehow dishonestly worked your way into Featured Row. That is totally the fault of the voting members of this site; they should have realized that what was being presented is not an original work but merely a test render of a pre-made model.

Nevertheless, your original post hardly mentions that. People posting to that thread thought yours was an original model, even commenting on how the assymmetry added to the lifelike aspect…and you did nothing to correct that situation, thanking the poster(s) as if you had modelled the mesh yourself. I’ve seen that you have edited the original post to add the link to the Emily model. Don’t believe me? Go back and read the entire thread.

I’m not trying to discourage anybody, but I’d like to think that the works being posted are honestly presented. And my main point being this is blenderartists.org, not cgsociety.org, a general CGI site. The works on Featured Row should reflect that. And in my opinion, for what it’s worth, your Emily texturing test render does not.

Now, let’s get into it for real…

“If This Is Easy Just Go Try It And Post Your Work.” You wanna see some of my work, wiseguy?







I was the guy who art directed the original Inter Channel back in 2001 when you were sucking milk from a goat’s teat! I’ve done so much TV I can’t even remember it all! Jetix, RAI, Sky, you name it. So, being how you don’t even know me, where do you get off accusing me of all these nasty, uncalled-for things. If anybody here is “Beginner Or Something”, it’s you, pal! Just because you have your little artstation page, you’re a big man. Maybe you should improve your language skills and, above all, people skills.

Next time you post, be honest about what you’re posting. I’m Done With You And Your Whining.

GREY OUT!

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Write much?

[EDIT 2019-11-09] I’m just saying don’t be a jerk.

BTW, not that it’s any of your business but I’m from Detroit.

I completely disagree with the idea that the quality of art should be about how complex it is to make.

Look, I’m self admittedly a newbie in Blender (9 months), but I’m by no means new to the world of creating images or a sequence of images in other mediums.
A few months ago I was allowed access to the lounge, which in turn allows me to vote on feature row art. Am I expert on the ways of Blender? Of course not. But when I vote on a piece submitted to the feature row, or even when I just “like” a random piece sitting in “Finished Work” you can guarantee that I’m not voting on it’s complexity, or the artist’s use of the subserf modifier. Don’t get me wrong, I greatly appreciate the amount of work that went into very detailed pieces but that’s not on my subconscious checklist.
So what gets my vote? I look at things like, the artist use of light and shadow, composition, color choice, proportions (unless obviously stylized), realism or purposeful non realism, you know all the bla, bla, bla, boring stuff.
But the number one thing that I look at is the uniqueness of the artist’s style, and second, if and what the story is being told in that single image.

If having a PHD in Blender is the criteria for judging feature row art then I guess y’all can take away my privileges. But until then I’ll try to keep voting when I remember to head over to the lounge. And I encourage more of you with the privilege to do the same, that’s a great way to get diversity in the Featured Row, since well… you know, art is subjective.

“The greatest artist are revered for their ability to use the least amount of brush strokes to complete their masterpiece” - some no name artist :stuck_out_tongue:

Tim

Edit: Sorry this was meant for the discussion taking place in the “lounge”, on the criteria used for voting.
@bartv you can move if needed.
Thanks

i see your lvl in your lanquage :smiley: i dont care how much u did movies or some other work . i didnt make my work on toprow and i just send a render i did in blender see u just could post somewhere else but u wanted to destroy and make mess everywhere

guys, guys, chill out! :shushing_face:
we’re all friends here!

gtomorrow was extremely respectful in making his point. and his posts really made sense.
I’m sorry if you, Mohammad_Fakhri, took it as a personal offence. He definitely did not mean that. Maybe there are some language issues here. So it would be nice if you would stop insulting and provoking him, please.

well, obviously all of you are very emotional about your work, CG and blender - I take that as something positive…I guess. :wink:

but hey, in case you wanna go on with this willy contest…can I join? I got a really huge one! :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

this post had 2k view before feature award so i dont think this was problem idk man im rly tired i will leave this and go back to my baby maya :smiley: gtomorrow lets end this i love you :smiley: im out guys and idk if i will back here again :smiley: gl have amazing life and feature <3

Well Mohommad, You can always try one more. Its not the end. And please chill…

Im pretty sure if people would’ve known this- the result could’ve been different. But i think it happened for a good reason, for future posts maybe people will be attentive about this.

Since some of you pointed out- I think it breaks down to how they used the model. Sometimes you don’t have the time in the world to create one by one.

But in this scenario- I’m not sure if putting textures together does any justice at all- as @Bernardo mentioned.

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Don’t take it too personal, it would have been a killer if it was your own model,textures…etc and if it’s not then should provide a full disclaimer that’s only shading/lighting work nothing else involved.
It’s not your fault though it’s how the voting works maybe something here needs to be better however i can understand why some people felt this way…this a learning experience so take it as a motive for future projects.
Top row means at least in my opinion an inspiration to improve & hopefully reach high level but since this Site is about Blender Art i think the main tool should be Blender just like Zbrush, Artist there use Zbrush as the Main tool but also go through the whole post -process nothing wrong with that.

Allow me to at least give my own perspective as a reply to these two suggestions…

This is not something I would personally support. Blender gets used in a wide variety of working pipelines in various industries. This site is about art created using Blender… not the Blender features that were used to create that art. As far as I’m concerned, if Blender was used in the creation of the work, that’s all that’s necessary for candidacy. The fact that people using other software appreciate Blender and Cycles so much that they use it to produce their final renders or start their sculpting base or generate simulation data is a fantastic thing for Blender and should be celebrated rather than derided for somehow being “impure” or whatever.

I understand the sentiment here and certainly would appreciate more people doing this in #artwork:finished-projects, but it’s too easy to scam and too difficult to enforce. At the end of the day, we’re going to have to trust one another. That’s part of being a community.

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Your post makes senses. Always remember, life is a weird thing. Why something or somebody is suddenly succesful, in a simple matter “featured”, and gets huge numbers, comes from many reasons, good or bad.
Too many times I have felt like you express. Seeing works featured and mine ignored.
Most of us put our heart and soul in what we do. I have been doing so since my childhood. And then I remembered that as a child, I did not even know what beign featured ment, orwhat success should be. I remembered that the entire world might ignore you completely, and yet you can be the happiest person alive.
And by remembering that, I found happiness and a deep peace in my soul all over again.

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I understand your position: at the end of the day this is a community and above all, participation should be fun. This isn’t X Factor for Blender artists :smiley:. There’s no prize beyond a little recognition from our peers…which is always nice.

I also get that anyone who uses Blender in any capacity, even solely to render, is another Blender user and supporter. That can only be a good thing for Blender, The Blender Foundation and obviously its users.

Thirdly (?), I know full well that any project is usually created with more than one tool. It’s good to have a hammer, but sometimes you need a screwdriver…or a saw. You get the picture.

But…at the risk of being repetitive, this is blenderartists.org. We should be eating our own dog food. I’m sure ZBrush’s forum’s version of Featured Row contains work solely created in ZBrush. Same for Maya or Cinema4D. These communities are showcasing work created (mainly) in their respective software. Somebody correct me if I’m wrong, by all means. If that’s not the case, I’ll respectfully acquiesce, take my tirade and go home. :laughing:

The post that sparked this semi-intelligent rant of mine should have been immediately discarded for consideration for Featured Row; I hope we at least agree on this. It was not an original work, and as we discovered, not even the texturing was created. It was literally only rendered in Blender. And what’s worse, the poster reluctantly at best admitted it as such but only after compliment after compliment filled that thread. After all the namecalling in both that and this thread, I’m going to give him the benefit of the doubt and put it all down to a cultural/language barrier.

The real blame goes to the voting body. The voting body, which all details escaped me regarding number of members and the “careful voting process”, with all their collective knowledge of the general 3D world didn’t realize that post (which at the time of this writing is still up there…laughing at you all that voted for its inclusion) was yet just another posting of the Emily O’Brien model and its included textures.

You say “we’re going to have to trust one another.” I agree…in theory.

Therefore, I still stand by my suggestions. Everybody, post all you want!!! I love seeing the good, the bad and the ugly amongst you all! :laughing: Get your rocks off showing off your work, at whatever skill level you may be. That is the point of participation in this community. And remember: cream (usually) rises to the top!

Nevertheless, you want to be considered to Featured Row? I wanna know how much fruit is in your marmalade. Yes, it would next-to-impossible to enforce, but that’s not the real problem. If someone posts a work claiming a bunch of lies in its creation just to rise to Featured Row, well, you just gotta wonder what some people’s motivation is.

I leave it to the voting board to be more careful in their haphazard-as-of-lately decisions. Here, @Fweeb, I have no choice but to trust. Thank you and have a wonderful day! :sun_with_face:

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I’m playing with the idea of letting all previously featured artists join the voting process too. This would grow the total number of (potentially) involved people by at least one order of magnitude. What’s more, these new voters would be ‘qualified’ as artists, which would hopefully help improve the output of the process too. How does that sound?

I think I can automate it so that each newly featured artist is automatically added to this group, and receives an instruction DM, which would remove any overhead. This part needs more research though.

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I am forced to repeat it, this criterion can be fair only if it has retroactive value.
Those who have been featured in the past are Artists?
Who has his works in the Gallery are Artists too?

I think this is a great idea, and offers an interesting extra award for people who are featured.

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I explicitly mentioned this: “previously featured artists”. Existing members also shouldn’t upvote their own work, of course.

Yes, I’d like to ‘backfill’ this group with everyone who has been on the Featured row since we moved to Discourse. I can’t access older data, not does that add much value - see next point.

These will all be older than 1.5 years and have a high chance of not being active here anymore, so I’m not sure it’s worth the effort.

This applies in any case, unless you choose people outside the community to vote.

The fact that some members are no longer active, or that their jobs are dated, should not, however, exclude them from the list of voters, since here it is a criterion for judging whether they are qualified to vote or not.