What is happening to Blender with 2.8 release ? from everyday user perspective... and more

(Lumpengnom) #266

Well, since I assume you are a responsible user I expect you to check if the torrents are legal before you download anything.
Really, it is difficult for me to believe that you are not misunderstanding me on purpose.

As for the torrented products I use. None. I don´t know how to torrent and Blenders addons and models are so cheap that it is not worth my time to find out how to do so even in legal cases. As stated above for someone from a rich country who earns money with Blender it is absurdly easy to stay completley legal with Blender.
I mean you can buy all the addons you want a whole bunch of assets, join the Blender Cloud and Blender Fund and still save money compared to getting a 3ds Max subscription.

Anyways, here´s an upvote. :wink:

(John Malcolm) #267

I lost my job a couple of years ago after my company “merged” with a larger company. 21 years working in the same place with the same people. Since then my income has fallen and become fairly inconsistent. I am still more than happy to pay the creators of good quality paid addons for their products. My only regret is that I bought some on Gumroad that I wish I’d bought on Blendermarket.

DECALmachine, MESHmachine, Boxcutter, Substance Painter Live Link, Nodeset Pro and Gaffer are all great and worth every penny.

(Lumpengnom) #268

Hmm… maybe it was disambigous.
What I´m saying is: If you have enough money and make enough money with Blender go and buy addons.
If you are too poor to buy then torrent the addons if they are GPL.

(chippwalters) #269

As said previously, it’s impossible for a casual torrent thief to identify if a torrent is 100% GPL.

Or, a better idea. Contact the author and propose a barter. Offer to help translate docs or videos into his/her native language. Or help write a tutorial. There are a number of ways you can help an author by spending time, not money.

I believe this is a more honorable strategy than stealing another’s hard work and livelihood.

I have comped many a free addon using the barter system and it seems to work for everyone.

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(Lumpengnom) #270

Torrenting is not illegal and you can not steal GPL software that is shared by someone else.

(chippwalters) #271

So, can you torrent my products? Are they 100% GPL? Some of them are currently being torrented.

Is it ok to say if they are downloaded and are not 100% GPL then it is theft?

(Lumpengnom) #272

I don´t know what your products are and I´m not really interested in researching it. If your products are for Blender they are probably cheap so if I happen to need them I´ll buy them.

Anyway, you can find out by other means than downloading something if something is GPL. By asking for example.

You can never be 100% sure of anything.
If you buy something - anything - it might be illegal as the seller might have stolen it.

It is possible to break the law by accident in plenty of ways.
So, there is a risk. If you´re not willing to take this risk, well, don´t risk it.
If you download something illegal by accident delete it.

(dan) #273

pretty heated discussion :slight_smile:

my 2 cents - I’m more than happy to pay for addons. I’m freelancing on the side and they help me to stay in competiton with making my pipeline more streamlined. Food on the table, paying bills/mortgage, that sort of thing. I’m guessing coders working on addons have to pay for stuff as well.

You know what you pay for, and I have to add that the dedication I see from many developers here is unlike anything I’ve seen, they deserve everyone’s biggest respect and gratitude. Big thanks to Chipp as well, your work makes my life a lot easier and blender a better product imo.

btw, question on the side - is there some community place where like minded people could join and fund a developer for specific projects? Those corporate memberships are a bit rich for me, but I guess if enough people with similar goals come together it could make a difference. I know there’s sculpt quest and stuff like that, but was thinking of a more direct way of getting some improvements in.

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(chippwalters) #274

Thank you for making my point for me.

People don’t go to Blender addon torrents to ask questions about GPL. They just download and steal products regardless of licensing.

There is empirical evidence of this. I’ve seen sales charts drop when a torrent goes live.

If you’re interested in knowing what my products are you can find them at https://gumroad.com/chippwalters

There you will find as many free products as commercial ones.

(Ace Dragon) #275

What I have read about products and services designed to help people pirate content, is that a number of them will now “pirate” your PC’s hardware to help them mine cryptocurrency. The guys at Pirate Bay and Bittorrent need to make money as well (which means even they need some form of capitalism to stay afloat :upside_down_face:).

(chippwalters) #276

Thank you for your kind words.

I’ve found Upwork can be reliable, but you really need to do your due diligence. The Blender 2.8 API is so new, chances are you’ll be paying for your developer to get up to speed.

Or you can possibly identify a developer and float some ideas by them, and see if they will bite. Especially if you have marketing and sales chops, it can be a good combo.

I wrote a bunch of cad like python scrpits for Vue years ago and would now rather focus on product design and marketing and let others do the hardcore programming. I’m fortunate to have Team C in the bullpen.

(Lumpengnom) #277

There is no point. I earn enough money to have the privilege to simply buy addons without going through the hassle of researching. Poor people unfortunately have to waste time on this type of research if they don´t want to pirate. But unlike non GPL software they at least can get GPL software legally at all.

Why would you ask on a torrent. Just ask the vendor. Or someone who has the software. You can even look it up on Blendermarket.com.

This proves my point, though. You make some very popular addons and they are dirt cheap. If you made them for Max or Maya I believe you could ask for a lot more.

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(dan) #278

" The Blender 2.8 API is so new, chances are you’ll be paying for your developer to get up to speed."

ye, that’s the thing. I used services like that before, it’s a bit of a hit and miss. Would be good to have a place with blender developers where people could offer bounties for specific fixes, or set up a fund for an addon (which could be implemented as well if the blender folks decide it fits in the main build).

(chippwalters) #279

Yeah, it’s tough. I tried taking some top SketchUp developers, who I already had relationships with, and offered 4 figure bounties, and still couldn’t get any traction.

Though after I left for Blender, citing the crappy bevels in SketchUp, one of the developers did release a “for free” upgrade I was trying to get him to develop.

All along I said whatever work he did could be released for free to the community, but I just needed this feature. He was too busy at the time, though he is a super plugin author and creates some of the best plugins for SketchUp.

SketchUp’s core toolset hasn’t really changed in 8 or so years, as the product keeps jumping from one company to the next as they try and milk their remaining customers-- now with ridiculous subscriptions and all the dev work is focused on a lame beginner cloud version.

They never had a bevel tool and rely on their 3rd party Ruby developers to add all new core functionality. Sad story over there.

I only relate this as it’s tough to get top tier programmers to join in on bounty type projects, which can typically go to the lowest bidder…

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(dan) #280

“All along I said whatever work he did could be released for free to the community, but I just needed this feature.” exactly this :slight_smile:

Makes sense though. Coders are expensive. I’d rather give it to someone with experience regarding the subject and a plan of action rather than the lowest bidder.

Might be just the nature of the industry. A lot of times a request comes from a specific need that needs to be resolved asap, by the time everything is sorted and a fix/new feature is on it’s way it’d be too late in production. At other times inhouse* developers work on a tool for a year and suddenly out of nothing a similar feaure either get’s implemented in the main build or an affordable standalone product is getting released doing the same thing but better.

*by inhouse I mean devs at a vfx/game studio

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(Peetie) #281

Apology if I interrupt.
If there are enough people downloading from torrents or otherwise, developer of addons, textures, models, etc will decide “It’s more profitable if I keep it for myself, so I have exclusive product”. That could mean that you will see less of masterxeon1001, MACHIN3, chippwalters, pitiwazou etc, etc. Imagine how Blender would like without those extra’s. There is not even one material.

If you don’t like it to buy something, don’t buy it. No-one says you have to and people are free to ask compensation for what they are doing. If I walk on the street I am free to pick up a stone, kiss it, and sell it. (after cleaning).

You are also free to learn python, make textures, make shaders, make models, scenes.

I don’t see the point.

(dan) #282

That’s seems to be pretty much a calculated risk with digital content. There are always going to be students or people just starting in the industry without the financial background, and not all of them will ask nicely to get access to products.

But I think as soon as someone is a bit more established, started to work at a studio, one would come to appreciate and support development, especially independent developers.

While paying for a product from a big company is obviously the decent thing to do, I think supporting smaller developers is more than that. It’s paying respects to their effort in a competitive environment. They do have a harder job I’d think, big companies can cope with overhead, shuffle costs and expenses, for small developers it’s not that easy.

(cypherslock) #283

Developers deserve to eat too. And it’s a very specialized skill. I’m happy to pay for any plugin that will cut my time and improve my productivity. WordPress is also free, but you see many commercial plugins there too… should they all be free?

(Artur Shaik) #284

Let’s clarify it one more time.

In my point of view in FOSS community all soft should be open and free. If devs ask for support, users should support them, especially if they intensely use his soft to make money.

All the people (who came in this thread to support dev’s money making) wouldn’t you pay periodically for free and usefull addon? I guess you will, because “Developers deserve to eat too”. So what’s the problem?



just give addon developers time to catch up. Nothing major will change, they just made the program more intuitive for beginners.

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