What to charge for modeling work?

General Forums Blender and CG Discussions
21

I think you do.

Being a part time generalist, you can’t reach the quality a specialized animator will get (if you disagree, Dunning Kruger is your friend), so your ideas represent an edge case, a very special situation that allows you to put your animation and modelling work into a backpack attached to your design work, and slab your usual rates on the package (which are lot higher than what professional, specialized animators typically are able to charge).

I’m sure one @Danmst3k finds interesting nevertheless. Not sure whether he’ll be able to replicate it though.

Apart from that, I’d really find it useful if someone who is a specialized modeller would dare to lower her deflector shield and disclose a ballpark of her rates …

Also, it would be important to know where @Danmst3k is located.

22

I said “not sure”, not “no idea.”

I did wonder if you were trying to pull this into specific job title distinctions of a dedicated modeler, dedicated animator, etc. But I chose to seek clarification, instead of making some assumption on my own and going with that.

I’ll be the first to say that I would not be considered an expert modeler nor animator. Certainly, “generalist” most describes my area. Which is also how the OP described themselves. So I believe my own rate/billing history is relatively applicable to the discussion.

You feel it is not, or is somehow an outlier, or possibly think that somehow I’m making up numbers and/or misrepresentating my career history for … whatever reasons. You’re obviously quite angry about your own situation, which is certainly unfortunate. But you don’t need to take that anger out on me, so we can stop discussing my personal situation if it’s all the same to you.

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23

They really, really, don’t though. As I said, my rates are closer to Thorn’s than yours. And I’m not a designer and I don’t do “design work”. It can’t be an edge case if it’s also my experience, given that Thorn and I pursue entirely different careers and have entirely different skill sets. I think the problem here is that you’re upset we’ve had success in charging higher rates than you, and you’re trying to find a way to discredit those facts, but they are facts. They’re not fair facts, sure, but they’re facts. I’m sorry to hear about your personal situation, and if I had a magic trick I could share that has allowed me to get these rates, I would in a heartbeat, but I don’t. It’s just been faith and connections and miracles, which sadly isn’t something I can give to you, but if I could, I would :confused:

24

Sometimes… personal experience simple differ… even made over years…
So also here the “standard explanation” applies:

It depends.

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25

It still is, because the two of you are able to “cross-reference” your main businesses (at least if my assumption is correct, on how your web developer job might support the occasional 3d gig).

I don’t deny it, it’s ridiculously frustrating to hear about those numbers, while biting the dust oneself.

But while I can’t lock this out completely, it isn’t the main reason I’m posting here.
I just happen to think that your numbers are misleading, as I’m not the only one you’ve left in your wake with your rates. There’s quite a bunch of very talented and well established artists I happen to know, who’re, sadly, solidly seated in my boat. Common denominator: they don’t have that “cross referencing” option, they are “just” artists.

It’s important for others asking questions here, to realize that. I don’t think it makes sense how the two of you, @thorn and @Joseph, are leading discussions like this one, with such confidence. You are not representative examples, unfortunately.

If you do however, be sure to emphasize your context.

Nice thing to say - I appreciate it nevertheless: thank you. :slight_smile:

26

And sometimes, it is fair to share some of it, including ugly and unpleasant detail, to help others understand the situation better.

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27

Yepp… it’s always “enlightening” to learn something about both sides of the “spectrum” so that one can re-estimate ones default/average/standard view of something.
And sometimes frustrating… for example when i think… i can do this too… but i also might simply overestimate myself…

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28

Believe me, I hate to be the one sharing the “loser” perspective.
I feel someone should though, at some point.

29

See it more positive; like this… you might just charge a bit more next time… :wink:

30

Right now, “next time” is cancelled. For the time being, I’m out of this business.

PS:
don’t believe for a second I didn’t try hard to charge more …

31

Too bad and sad to hear this…

Anyway:
Oh my… i have recognized/memorized your avatar for a while because i’m more the visual guy and do not memorize names very good…
So i looked (now :sweat_smile: ) into your profile… and your webpage…

:exploding_head:

I wish i could do this things… !!!

Annddd… you are the one with the racoon animation… which i saw some month (years?) ago…

32

It pretty much depends a lot on which country you are in, doesn’t it?

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33

That would probably explain the disconnect, yes :slight_smile:

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34

Yep.
In case someone is interested in numbers, the whole asset - from modelling to grooming and rigging (didn’t need to do animation) - earned me US$1400 if I remember correctly. Took me about 5 working days to make it. Client was a US documentary film maker I’m getting along very well with.

In our case, only in parts …

See the document @stoicDucky linked. US$ 70-80 for non-top-tier non-high-end 3D work are not common rates, neither in the US, nor here in Europe. Maybe automotive in Germany pays that much, @Lumpengnom?

35

You’re getting underpaid, I don’t know what else can be said at this point

36

I know.
So are legions of fellow artists out there, who don’t have the option to wait out the perfect gig.

And that’s why I put a stop to it. Should have done so earlier.

Enjoy the privileged position you are in, but please stop declaring this to represent “normality” in a f*cked up market.

PS:
funny how no one else here is jumping up and down, hand raised, crying “ME TOO!!! I charge 70-80 bucks per hour, and more!!!”
I wonder why that is?
Usually, people are quick about sharing their success, aren’t they?

37

Yes, automotive can pay like that. Other advertisment work can pay decently as well.
30€ seems very low but I have no experience with animation for the entertainment sector, so I can not comment on that.

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38

Um… The only other person who has shared charges more than that, so I’m not sure your point means much

Actually, scratch that, with @Lumpengnom and @thorn , the three people that have shared so far besides you are in agreement

Anyway, you don’t have to believe us. We’ve shared our numbers, hopefully they’ll be useful to OP. They’re factual, it doesn’t really matter whether you agree with them

39

I took a break from freelance modeling a year ago, at the time I was charging 75 USD per hour, this was for modeling work in advertisement. Much of the work was retopology of CAD data. I live in California it might be different if you are in different state or country and my client was a studio in San Francisco area and I live in LA, so remote work.

P.S. When I started freelancing work 10+ years ago I charged 45 USD per hour. I am not saying my rates are normal, you should charge what you think you are worth and can get base on the market conditions, location, brands.

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40

This is going in circles.

I’m aware that it is possible to charge these rates, in some cases, and I’ve already pointed out myself how location and industry are crucial regarding budgets.
As said, I’ve managed €60/hr, and had I been first in the chain of subcontractors (or had I been an *sshole that had nod paid half of the budget to my subcontracted animator because I wanted to be fair and pay back her fairness when she had contracted me before), it could have been a lot more. You see? One time maximum isn’t super relevant. What’s relevant, that’s the average, sustained rate you can expect. This number is the significant one, not some lucky strike edge case.

@Lumpengnom: of course €30 is horrible, it just turned out to be the amount I ended up unintendedly but frequently while my business went down the hill. I worked with clients from Spain and Israel though (entertainment, all cases), because I liked the projects. In those cases it was intentional, and a fair compromise, to compensate for differences between the respective local economies. I have no ambition to work for the automotive industries, neither am I interested in arch- or product visualization, so it is true, I’ve locked myself in a low pay segment of the overall market (which is: entertainment, non-realtime, no games). Which, again, leads to the point “context”. There’s no generic, valid rule across all industries, world wide.

Anyway, for the record (and if you’re willing to disclose): is €70-80 your typical rate, or rather something that may happen now and then?

I never said I didn’t believe you. I’d love it if these rates were normal payment level. What I keep saying is this though: in many cases you won’t be able to negotiate that (or even lose clients because they’re insulted by the idea), so better be prepared for that reality.

If more people are willing to offer insight - full time artists in various parts of the industry disclosing not only their best deals, but their everyday business - and a different image is painted, I’ll stand corrected, humbled and will shut up.

Otherwise, my points stand.

Anyway, OP didn’t disclose his client’s industry, neither his and his client’s location. It’s his business to take what suits him/her best, from this dispute, but there’s a high chance it means nothing within his specific setting anyway.

And I have wasted too much time with this.
Ultimately, I don’t care - as said, I’m not part of this business anymore, and I’m increasingly happy about it.