Objectively harder, objectively better, same thing. You state that one way is better than another by fact, that there is no way using the outliner is better.
I wish you phrased it as “I find it harder than clicking on the object…etc.”
This is seen as an opinion, and a discussion can start around it without anyone calling anyone else “wrong”.
every time the word “objectively” is brought up on BA, a debate on objectiveness starts.
My personal approach is to always (or as much as possible) imply in my posts that I’m speaking for myself even if I think I’m stating an objective fact. Sometimes I may feel frustrated to do so but I think it keeps the discussion fruitful and prevents derailing.
You do it your way, i do it my way. No way is perfect, no way is incorrect. What method you chose depends on your preference and workflow. Discussing how you benefit from your way of doing things might teach and inspire users to maybe attempt those methods. But stating that “This way is objectively harder” seems a lot more like a “im right, you’re wrong”. Which is why i think the thread got so many flags in the first place, this is what i wanted to end. And you intentionally went against that.
No. That is not how the english language works. Objectively harder/easier in one specific stated context is not the same as “objectively better”.
I didn’t state one is better than another by fact because that is not what I wanted to convey. I stated that one is harder than the other in a given specific situation. I was explicitly sticking to your rules and you have to change what I said to make it break your rules.
And I wish the moderators wouldn’t make @#$% up and then pretend one word means another when they realise they screwed up. Looks like neither of us gets our wish granted.
Noone is making anything up. Stop taking things so personal. This was a very big case, and it was the first case i delth with on my own. I will certainly take the outcome of this situation into consideration moving forward, and i did not feel comfortable dealing with this. I wanted to involve other moderators as soon as possible, but none were available for a very long time, as the main moderator is currently out travelling.
I honestly wanted to lock the thread until a staff member had time to review the case, but again i hesitated, and instead tried to deal with it. In hindsight i think that was a bad idea.
Well, I’m not debating objectivity. I’m pointing out that easier/harder in a specific, explicit, stated context does not mean the same as “better”. FinalBarrage, your admittedly new mod, needs to realise that he can’t just change what people say to mean what he wants it to when he decides to go flicking posts.
Complete twaddle.
You stated we were not to express opinion as fact - I didn’t.
You stated we were not to say LMB is objectively better than RMB - I didn’t.
You admit above you decided to reinterpret “harder in given circumstance” to “better” when making your decision.
I didn’t say what you’re trying to say I did. Which even your quote shows very clearly.
So do we continue to argue about who did what or do we take a decision on what to do about the topic?
Personally I’m on the side of removing the off-topic posts and leaving the thread open.
And if things derail again, take another decision.
This constantly happened in the old forum, it has nothing to do with the new forum!
Derailing is not an option, because trolls are going to use that strategy too. If you don’t let them, they would point out that moderators are allowed to do that. That’s not a discussion you want to have!
Closing or temporarily closing is a way better option. It gives everyone some time to cool down. Everyone understands the reason that a staff member needs to check it.
Yes, actually, you are making stuff up. You continue to claim that my post says something is objectively better when, even in your quote, it doesn’t. You continue to state that I intentionally went against your arbitrarily imposed rule - when I did not. And you continue to protest you were right about my post when, objectively, it doesn’t say what you said I couldn’t say.
So yeah, when you are telling me I was intentionally flouting your rule, when you cannot show that I did - I take that personal. You are making claims about my intention you cannot back up and justifying your actions flicking my posts because of that imagined intention. That’s personal.
Your mod said I could talk about it here and continues to justify his decision despite being unable to back the supposed reason with what I’m supposed to have said.
I think, at this point, the thread needs to be closed or SEVERELY edited (to the point you won’t be able to follow it). In the interests of simplicity - I’d create a new thread, post the explicit topic (& that mods will flick anything off topic), include a brecht’s link, and a few of the latest suggestions, and close the old one with a link to that new one.
we went for the severely editing, although I think a lot more could be dealt with, but we’ve spent quite some time on the subject already.
Intentionally driving the conversation off-topic is ill-advised. It doesn’t do much to re-enforce the idea that we, as moderators, are here to keep discussions on-topic and civil. It can work as a means of temporarily reducing the heat in a thread… until someone reads the original post (or as happens so frequently, just that post’s title*) and restarts the flamewar anew. I would prefer to close the thread and split off the relevant, on-topic, civil parts to new threads (or let forum members start them themselves). That effort can be quite a bit of work (and can make a vocal minority of the forum membership mad at you), but it tends to lead to more constructive, positive conversations.
The original thread seems to have calmed down, but I’m concerned that it could derail again easily. It something we should certainly keep an eye on in case it does eventually need to be closed.
*Incidentally, @Ace_Dragon, you’ve done a lot better recently with reducing the sensationalism in your thread titles… the one for that thread could’ve used a bit more work, IMHO.
More generally, I think BA is not a very appropriate place to just spread the news on something if you don’t have a specific discussion intention behind. Take Next Gen for instance, it’s sensational news but the OP was asking for feedback on the movie and got it.
But here, what was the goal? If it was just to spread the news I think blender.today would be a better place for that.
I get your point, but I fundamentally disagree. This is a discussion forum. News is worth discussing. Of course, it would be nicer if there were a directed question or focused topic of discussion associated with the news posting (which is why I try to discourage linkbombing without members including an opinion or context with the link), but I don’t think it’s explicitly necessary.