Before I leave, one thing I forgot: this is mainly a support page. That’s all.
Look through the threads – it’s mostly people asking questions about the engine.
Where’s the benefit in keeping up with the so-called special treatment?
Well, having us around, to keep helping people who are still working with BGE.
All in all, if we really are getting special treatment, it’s not like we don’t contribute anything to the forum, as to not deserve some minimum of recognition for our efforts. People can still get support for an older version of Blender precisely because we have this section, so there’s value in it.
But if you’re just not willing to see that, then fine, have it your way. I’m tired of this.
You wanted to play grammar nazi. It’s not my fault you went off half-cocked. No-one asked you to police the definition of words we use here, so you have only yourself to blame when you are wrong about them.
That’s of help to you. Not the the wider forum & it’s community. Blender moves forward and the community moves forward with it in order to take advantage of what the new versions provide. In order to “take advantage” of the BGE, people have to forgo the improvements to Blender or treat it as simply another engine into which they import resources… just like all the other engines that don’t get their own dedicated forum.
You might recall that I was suggesting that those engines get their own sub-forums too. Fweeb, correctly on reflection, stated that was not really a workable/wise solution. Instead, the forum was willing to simply have you share your forums with the rest of the game engine users without special treatment. This seems a reasonable compromise. You’re not being told to bugger off, only to share the forums with other engines, and the users of other game engines are not discouraged by the fact BGE gets special treatment and their choice gets nothing.
Given the amount of twisting of things said, i’ll once more re-iterate my position as clear as i can make it, however do realize i’ts just MY opinion and I don’t have any more influence with the people running BA than you do, so no need to freak out because this one guy is disagreeing with you. I’m just one guy with an opinion… relax…
Any issues with ‘other engines’ are most likely going to be limited to IO (mesh/rigs/textures) and can be handled in the current support forums. Any questions about actual game development with said engines is already done in existing communities for most engines.
Having 5 separate forums for BGE seems excessive given BGE will be removed in the next version of blender, no need to scatter this content over all other existing forums, just merge it all into a single ‘Legacy BGE’ forum with a sticky that BGE got removed, and this forum is still here for people who need help with old versions. Perhaps give some links to other free/opensource engines in said sticky.
Other forks have no dedicated forums with moderation services for them (moderation is clearly needed given how passionate some of the UPBGE people seem to be) , if we as a community want to give bigger exposure to forks, great! some of them really deserve it but UPBGE should not be the sole beneficiary.
In all honesty, I pointed out in which sense I used the word because you resorted to another definition.
It’s not a matter of battering my ego against yours. So stop the word-twisting already.
As for everything else, we’ve made our case, now we’re just repeating things over.
For a final note, if there is an actual influx of people who’d really benefit from having the support page accomodate their needs as well, I don’t think it’d be unreasonable to make that compromise.
Being orderly with too many engines on one page will take some work. But if people are willing to do it then what the heck, I’ll be alright either way. It’s trying to accomodate a community that appears to be absent, and attacking one that has been active for a while, that I totally don’t get.
I’d say the important thing is not to discontinue support (not this early on, at least) – this is one way to go about it I guess. Not my first choice, but hey, I can somewhat agree with this point at least.
just one thing: why remove the game engine forums? the bf said they are developing a new “interactive” mode.
i don’t know if i care that the forums are scattered around or left as they are, but they should not be removed. games are art, just like sculpture and animation. i think the bge forums should stay at least until the new interactive mode comes out, and then see what is done with it.
it’s too early to decide anyways, the FINAL version of blender, the one that CAN BE USED SERIOUSLY is 2.79, not 2.8, 2.8 is an incomplete-work-in-progress version, and 2.79 happens to have bge in it.
Wow. Seems a lot of posts have been thrown in here since I made my proposal. Yes, I have read all of them and I’ve flagged and hidden any that were off-topic or inappropriate.
I have a few comments:
No one is talking about removing anything. My proposal is about moving things around and re-organizing. All of the posts that are currently on this site will remain on this site.
I’d be interested in seeing some traffic numbers in the current Game Engine categories, compared to other parts of the site. I don’t currently have access to that information, but I can say that neither ‘bge’ nor ‘upbge’ show in the top 50 search terms used here.
No official action will be taken until after the release of Blender 2.80. Doing any kind of forum reorganizing prior to that would be premature.
It’s true that this site is not affiliated with the Blender Foundation or the Blender Institute. We’re independent. So that means we’re not obligated to change the forums just because Blender itself changes. But that doesn’t mean that staying the same is the right call, either.
Right now, I’d say that eventually integrating most of the categories with the rest of the forum feels like the right move, as described here. Nothing is set in stone, though.
I’d be happy to discuss specific points (like where we might place the Team Projects category or whether Game Engine Resources should remain separate). But let’s please stay on topic.
I’ve found that if I search “bge + [search term]” in Google, then I’ll get a Stack Overflow answer. If I had to guess, I’d say it’s because BGE has a tag on Stack Overflow, but “bge” is not actually in the support threads here. If I want a Blenderartists answer then I need to do “site:blenderartists.org” (which will often get me the result I want). You could say that would be a nice side effect of having tags is that it’ll start directing Google results here.
What still confuses me is having game development threads in sections where you wouldn’t expect them to be, like artwork. It’s misleading. There’s always some overlap between categories but that only goes to an extent.
But then there are threads in Game Engine Support, that are actually asking for help with something that’s actually a Blender issue, not an engine issue… just like there are some other threads asking python questions that aren’t related to the BGE API or posts in team projects were (or where? I’m lost) someone is asking for people to come work with them on a Unity project.
Not sure if this has been said already, I think one thing to do is sort out the threads that will only ever make sense in the context of the BGE from those that fit better in other categories, and then from there see what can be kept separate, as once the section is truly, exclusively about the engine, what can be moved where/rolled together with should become a lot more clear.
It is a lot of work though. But if marking a thread for this purpose isn’t too complex then I guess the lot of us could help.
I’ve always considered game development to qualify as an artform. Sure, game projects could probably make sense in the Coding section, but I personally wouldn’t prefer to see them there.
Threads like the ones you’re describing should be flagged now and reported to the moderation team so we can move them to the proper category. We can’t be everywhere all the time, so we really do rely on the community to report when things are out of place.
I’m definitely willing to do the work of making sure the correct threads get placed in the correct categories.
And I second that, it’s just that the artform status is still questioned. Having games together with artwork does grant them said status in a sense and I like the idea personally – what I’m not so sure about is whether it’ll be easier for others to find. I could be wrong though, and it might just make a lot of projects more visible. I’d have no complaints if that were the case.
So if an out of place thread pops up all we have to do is flag it, no extra steps? Why, that’s easy.
Yup. Just flag it. I’d prefer that you use the “Something Else” flag type and give us an indication of which category you think the thread would fit better in. The moderation team will handle it from there.
And in the interests of fairness, you were incorrect to criticise me as you did for my correct use of the word. “It’s okay not to know what a word means but hey, at least google it” - your words. I knew what it meant and used it accordingly.
Doubling down on it each post, trying to achieve through belligerence what the dictionary definition couldn’t achieve for you isn’t going to change that.
I would say the same in reverse. Without an influx of people coming here for the BGE, and the Blender Artist administrators wanting this site to be for that game engine, I don’t think it unreasonable to change the forums to match the situation as it stands - namely that BGE/UPBGE are no longer official parts of Blender. A forum for Blender therefore is not required to give users of those engines special status or privileges not granted the dozens of other game engines Blender can be used with.
BTolputt does nor use, nor is he any good with blender game engine,
I think that he lacks empathy at all for us,
Blender artists, is where people who use blender game engine congregate,
we are part of this forum, and have paid to be here with millions of website hits.
we are part of this forum.
go do your own thing?
why don’t you remove yourself?
you don’t have a single WIP thread, or a finished project…
what do you do here besides try and talk smack / try and have bge removed?
You are correct. I don’t use the BGE. The lack of performance, needed functionality, and developer support had me rule it out quite some time ago. Which is why I use two other engines for my interactive projects involving Blender.
You are incorrect that I lack empathy. I feel sorry for those that believe that they are losing their online home. My empathy for them is balanced by the knowledge that, should they choose to do so, they can make an online home all of their own and is tempered by the knowledge that BlenderArtists does not owe anything to BGE, no matter what it’s users think.
I comment on a wide variety of things, read a wider variety, and this thread popped up as a suggested thread for me to read at the bottom of another I was reading. If you don’t like that, complain some more to BlenderArtists about the features they’re offering for free - it was one of them that brought this thread to my attention.
Oh, and you really need to cut the “who pays you” nonsense. Not because I have an issue with it (no-one pays me for my commentary here); but because the more you delve into & insinuate conspiracy nonsense - the less credible and worthwhile your opinion comes across. It’s the equivalent of the old crazy guy on the corner ranting about the Illuminati seeking to end the world - sooner or later, everyone tunes out.
It bears mentioning - I’m not the subject of this conversation. That would be rational, defendable reasons for changing or leaving the forums as they are given the BGE is no longer being developed, maintained, or supported by the Blender Foundation. Flattered as I am, perhaps returning to that subject might help your cause better than trying to make me the issue.
Enough, stop with the negativity. Blenderartists will never remove the “Game Development” section from the forums, ever.
If anything, we’ll just change it. Game development for blender will always be a thing, be it with a blender supported game engine like Armory, or an external engine like Unity or Unreal. Therefore there will always be a place for game development. It will likely change, due to the removal of BGE, but it wont be removed without a replacement.
Also i would like to bring this up. I dont recall where i heard this, i think it was in a long presentation several months, or years ago, but the Blender Game Engine was developed by a single person. And he left the team suddenly. There was noone to pick up where he left, so it slowly just faded out.
