Who thought it was a good idea to change Ctr+Y to Shift+Ctr+Z ???

on second thought…
what is more annoying is the terminology used for the functions called…that is the way the hot-keys are labeled in the user preferences…there are so many parts of blender that I don’t like my hot-keys called by their functions…if I want to change a key I need to know a long overblown name for it “space_3d_anoying_long_name_view_top”(I know dumb example)…or some nonsense…the point is…they do not make sense to me all the time and I end up changing things I did not want to change and not changing the thing I wanted…due to the fact I don’t know what the hell it is called…how is that artist friendly?

I forgot that in 2.4x ctrl+y and ctrl+shift+z did the same thing

The name refers to the operator, hot-keys are generally not very hard to set it up yourself, just takes a bit of a learning curve and time. Look at it from both sides:

In most cases a program would hide these sorts of callbacks (or whatever you want to call them) and would appear to become more user friendly in the process, but, since this information can be applicable to python scripting and programming and used as a reference I would think that it is relevent and is much more useful in this form. Thats not to say that there isn’t areas in where the kotkey system could be improved, but I would consider this a feature and not a drawback especially if you like to write your own scripts or want to create a hot-key for something that doesn’t have one.

well from a new user perspective…it is wrong…I’m not new and I still have trouble…I would still like the ability to r_click on the item in the menu and have it bring up a small window asking what hotkey I would like that operator set to
e.g
w > subdivide > RMB > type in ctrl+d > ok/cancel…
this would set subdivide to ctrl+d…or leave it as is in the (switch)case of cancel.(yes horrible coding joke :wink: )
…but some how I have derailed this subject so…I apologize…lol

ctrl+z -> undo
ctrl+shift+z -> undo the undo
makes perfect sense to me. I found the change confusing at first, but it really is a very logical step. ctrl+y is too far to reach, and the shift key is consistent in creating the opposite effect of the shift-less shortcut in other blender tasks.

There must be some glue on mouses and "mouse hand"s. And on german layout i could complain over Ctrl + Z the same way. But no i just use both hands for typing. mumbles in german “Ihr habt Probleme.”

well a german keyboard swaps the z and b keys from am english keyboard.,…I use one myself from time to time

ctr;+shift+z is better then ctrl+y,…
ergnomy over standardization

this is only a hurdle for the first minutes you use this, then you are used to this and start to wonder why one ever would want to use ctrl+y…? :wink: :smiley:

just because someone once decided to use a combination which is very hard to use with one hand,
there is no reason to stick to this, unless it was better.
although ctrl+y is used in many programs, ctrl+y simply doesn’t make much sense.

ctrl+shift+z is both logic and ergnomic (shifted functionality of ctrl+z)
or for this matter it could be either:

ctrl+shift+z (shifted functionality)
OR
ctrl+alt+z (alternative functionality)

I would think that the more logical solution is alt-z, because in my mind I would think alternate, or opposite depending on the case, but I’m still more comfortable with crtl+shift+z

This is just a matter of taste, no real purpose for this thread, its kinda like complaining about the Blender Interface colors or something.

OMG FONTZ ARE UGGLLAAYY!!!

HOW COME BLENDER DOESN"T DO WHAT I WANT WHEN I BASH MY HEAD INTO KEYBOARD WHILE HOLDING SHIFT!!!

MY COMPUTER SUCKS I BLAME IT ON BLENDER!!!

I SUCK I BLAME IT ON BLENDER!>!>!>!>???!?!?!?!

haha I think I could go on and on.

Well it is said that 85% or more of all computer problems are due to operator error…

  • 1 Wholeheartedly agree. Z is so close, it is natural like playing a piano.

B and Z? No it swaps Y and Z. But even for occasionally programming i stay on german layout even if it makes my fingers going gymnastics to reach for [] what means using AltGr + 8 or 9 were [] actually sitting blame Umlauts for that. And my cousin had a little hard time on my keyboad as the white on black keyboard has partly worn out writings. Namely s, d, e, l and shift are blank.

German keyboards swap the placement of Y and Z relative to an American keyboard? i did not know that. i wonder if that means that the debate in this thread has been entirely moot? the original poster is from Berlin, so i wonder if he’s using a German layout. it WOULD be lame (to a German, in that case) to switch the default hotkey from CTRL+Y to CTRL+Z, but not to an American, which it seems most of the responding posters are.

LOL. cultural misunderstanding?

If that is the case, I can certainly see where it would be a problem! It would be extremely frustrating on such a keyboard.

Edit: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keyboard_layout#Germany_and_Austria Looks like it is, the standard Qwerty layout is actually Qwertz in Germany! I have to say, German words are always funny to an American English speaker like myself. Particularly the use of Z. I am starting to understand why. I am also starting to think that the whole world should standardize on one layout. Take the issue up with the IEC not Blender. :slight_smile:

I think we all have moments like this. Was having a bad day untill I chortled at this. Doesnt take much :slight_smile:

The US layout is used all over the world, but there are many countries which due to their lingual demands require other setups.
This will always be the case. By default we should support the majority (US layout?) and always offer the option to change the settings.

@Crumpet
That’s why I use canadian french lay out, instead of the standard french keyboard.
Fortunately, greek layout is close to the US standard. (as possible LOL), in most apps, as in blender, shortcuts just won’t work.
So, think about all these users that their language isn’t based on latin alphabet. All these people use US standard when working in blender. This is the majority.
It’s the first time I learned that ctrl+Y was working in blender. I always use shift+ctrl+z. It’s the standard in all audio pro apps, all adobe apps as mentioned. Ctrl+y is ergonomically ridiculous. Let’s have them both. However, if someone has an idea to assign something else on ctrl+y, this will be also ridiculous.

The difference between Ctrl-Shift-Z and Ctrl-Y is the same as the difference between Z-up and Y-up. Some like one, others like the other.

But imagine, if you will, how it feels to come to Blender from any other 3D application. Adapting to Z-up AND Ctrl-Y might be more than you could stand.

This is just all nature versus nurture. Expectations of what you’ve experienced in the past.

Other major applications like 3ds Max also use z-up and this is mathematically also the default.

The Y up default originates from 2D software, which use the screen as a flat 2D surface with Y as vertical and X as horizontal. But once you start to use more then 2 axis, everything is relative and keeping Y-up doesn’t make sense any longer.

Screen Space / World Space / Object Space / Local Space / Camera Space…

Windows users often have a hard time adapting to Linux distributions, just because they are just to certain standards.
But often overlooked is that Apple/Mac often uses the opposite of what windows does:
what makes sense, in a two choice menu:
have the OK left and the CANCEL right? Or vice versa?

Where in English we read from left to right,… major parts of the world do read in the opposite direction.
Maybe OK above and CANCEL below?

But where in English we read from left to right,… major parts of the world do read in the opposite direction.
And so where in some countries you drive on the left, in others you drive on the right side of the road.
So this will be an endless discussion which doesn’t improve anything…

Unless we focus on what makes the most sense to us as Blender users,… never mind what others do or did.
What is most ergonomically, easy to use and not too hard to learn, is all we can focus on.

English is the international language of choice, the US layout keyboard kind of goes with this as default.
Having one standard saves from having to maintain it all as well (and breaking functionality).
We simply do not have enough resources to provide to everyones personals preferences.
Although there might be more Chinese keyboards in the world then US layout. The international language is still English and this is fine.

We gain strength from uniting not from dispersion.

You can’t judge an application on it’s first day use.
There is a certain starters expectation, but in the end, we all get used to what ever it is that Blender offers and teaches us.
Then when we come across things like ctrl+Y and no longer want to use such an ergonomically illogic function.

That beginners do not understand this from the first attempt, can’t be prevented.
But we can have good documentation (wiki) which will tell you within seconds that you use CTRl+SHIFT+Y…
then you know and can adopt :slight_smile: Remember someone has to oversee this all and maintain it all.

Several 3D packages use Ctrl+Shift+Z for redo also. Ctrl+Shift+Z is actually one of the rare keymappings Blender has that is fairly standard.