Whose feedback matters or doesn't when you show someone something?

General Forums Off-topic Chat
1

I’m just saying, say if you make a piece of art, does the feedback of fellow artists matter more or do the people you’re showing it to matter more.

The public is impressed with many things in art, you see them going wow at the art museum, no matter what style or if it’s chaotic they like it, is their feedback useless?

Or do the only people whose feedback matters is the art elitists who solely dictate for themselves whose art is good or not. I have a sour note towards elitists in this regard, those people think their feedback is the only feedback that should count and what they say trumps everyone else’s opinions, they say the average person’s critique is absolutely null and void because they say so.

Or what about 3D art, is it a true rule that it must not show how you’ve done it? If so I see flaws in that as the more one knows about the 3D program, the more all art breaks the rule. Eventually a master can visualize the workflow in all pieces and all enjoyment in viewing art is gone once that happens.

Or is the only opinions that matter is that of the elitist who say your art style is incompatible with the required style for it to be good, most CGI art is still lifes, cities, creatures, or cartoons, what about the abstract works or works that don’t resemble any common types, but it pleasing to look at anyway.

So with both art and 3D art, whose opinion matters and whose opinion doesn’t?

2

Hi,

The only person’s opinion that matters is the person (or people) the art is made for - paying customer, the public or yourself. Everyone else can think what they like.

3

I find it interesting that in most forms of art the more it reveals how it is done the more engaging it is… what you mention above is why cg can be so frustrating or unrewarding when compared to say painting… perhaps

4

If we are speaking of Art at large, I don’t think that there is any piece that is complete until at least one artistic… what’s a word… viewer/user/reader made it his/hers.
The example of a book is easier to understand: at one end an author writes it but at the other end it has to be re-interpreted by a reader and talented readers will make it a better art piece than untalented ones. Moreover, that way there will be as many pieces of art as there will be readers.
Same for viewers of art.

What do you think of my opinion ? LOL

Jean

5

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder :slight_smile:
And if they don’t like it, poke them in the other eye with it too!

6

(I had a longer post, but it can be expressed better this way)

Plain and simple: if you do art for others your doing it wrong. Art should be for yourself. If your a true artist it won’t matter to you whether or not somebody else thinks its art. Its art in your eyes and thats all that matters.

Edit–

I suppose I should add that feedback does matter for when you want to improve. If there is nobody to tell you your mistakes then you’ll never get better. However, I think that has to (at least initially) be taken together with your artistic enjoyment to kind of produce a mediocre effect about art. As you get better the enjoyment will rise.

So I guess its whatever your going for. If you just want the artistic merit ignore the comments. If your trying to improve you must listen to them no matter what they are.

7

When you post on a forum that specifically is an artist’s forum, calling itself Blender Artists, dedicated to improving technique of people using software called Blender, you’d be a fool to ignore the opinions of the other artists.

If you want non-artist opinions, or fan boy opinions, find a non-artists forum, you tube or face book or some such, and see what kind of fanboy following you can attract there with your art.

This forum is dedicated to helping people improve. This necessarilly means that we are doing what we are supposed to be doing when we find things in your, or anyone’s, work, that could be improved. Note well, I said your “work” not your “art.” If you are at all interested in improving your work, you should pay attention to other people who are doing the same work.

You’d be a fool not to.

To answer the question you asked in the title of your thread, but assiduously avoided confronting in your actual post:

I respect the feedback of anyone I see doing the kind of work I’d like to be doing, and doing it better than I can at the moment.
I respect the feedback of anyone who is more expert than I am at using parts of the software that I am interested in learning how to use.
I respect the feedback of anyone who can help me improve my artistic skills.

Looking for feedback to stroke your ego or buy into your definitions of what “art” is, and whether it is “good art” or “bad art,” is a foolish waste of time, in my humble opinion.

8

Feedback from the public matters because it allows you to find out what an average-Joe thinks of your work.

Feedback from other artists matters because they can help point out potential improvements which non-artists would not be able to suggest. (I.E., compositional problems). Trained artists better understand the rules of aesthetics and can recognize problems which an average person cannot see. However, though the average viewer might not be able to define the problem, she will still respond more strongly to a work once it has been corrected. The response to aesthetics is innate, but it may take the assistance of a trained artist in order to tweak the art to the extent that it can create such a response. (Does that make sense?)

Feedback from family and friends (or enemies) must be taken with a grain of salt. These people are biased in one way or another, and their opinions cannot necessarily be trusted.

Unconstructive feedback typically does not matter. Someone who just says, “it’s stupid” or “yeah cool i like” is not really offering any useful information. However, if every response you get is “it’s stupid”, that should be a clue that something is amiss. The reverse is also true.

9

What is art ?

10

Well I can see people saying a piece is crappy because he knows how it was made, sometimes it’s just because he knows a lot about the program.

11

Before i started drawing I didn’t like the old masters’ works. Rembrandt, Da Vinci, Picasso (ok, not THAT old a master…) - I just didn’t get into it. Now, tho, I am constantly looking at Rembrandt, have copied and re-copied his sketches several times and am just in awe of the economy of the brushwork in his paintings as well as drawings. I think the same sort of thing holds true for any sort of art… the more you know how to create that sort of thing, the more you begin to appreciate the skill of the person doing it. The meaning of “art” is subjective, but the only people i know who debate it’s meaning or try to define it are not artists. The artists I know just make art. The people who fawn over these ‘pop artists’ and call themselves art critics are hypocrites. They pretend to uphold the belief that the idea is the important thing, that art should be some deep, moving, emotional and transcendental (whatever that means) experience, but then go gaga over the next flashy / controversial piece they see.

For instance, take the diamond encrusted skull.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/6712015.stm

This guy takes a human skull and slaps a bunch of diamonds on it and calls it ‘art’. The art snobs all say it’s some deep work, contrasting materialism and mortality, blah blah blah. In reality, the IDEA of a diamond encrusted skull should have been enough. A drawing or painting will get that idea across. Fake diamonds on a plaster, stone, wood, or whatever skull would have worked as well. But no. Real human skull. Real diamonds. Had it been anything less, the art snobs would not have even batted an eye before utterly dismissing it.

On the other end of the spectrum are the art snobs who think the idea is more important than the execution. They will call a stick-figure painting a work of pure genius so long as that piece is sufficiently witty or clever. The actual CRAFT is lost on these people. They think the picture is all that matters, but the crafting of the image goes hand in hand with the image itself. Did the artist put all of his effort into a piece, or did he have some clever idea and scrawl it out in a few hours? Pop artists are not in it for the art, they are in it for the money and the fame. They want to be the next Warhol or Basquiat. They care not for the craft and usually have little or no skill. They generally just hide behind “style”. Wanna know why this so called “primitive” or “naive” art is so over-done by so many artists? It’s cause none of them know how to draw, but all of them want to be famous. They pretend to ‘break the rules’, but 99% of them don’t know the rules in the first place, and because of that anyone who is even moderately schooled in the craft can tell immediately that they don’t know what the hell they’re doing.

The average joe has no idea, either, and if the picture is appealing to them in some way - favorite animal, color, pretty design, some kind of ‘meaning’ for them or something - they will buy it. Making art for the average joe is pretty much the same as making music for the deaf. You’re making art for a group of people who will never even come close to fully appreciating it. Make art for yourself, and make it to the absolute best of your abilities. Never stop learning. You will find yourself becoming more confident in your own work, and you will find that your peers (other artists) respect you for your dedication and skill.

Amount of ‘advice’ you should take:

40% - your own
40% - People who know more than you
20% - People who know less than you

Gushing positive critiques can feel great, but you don’t learn much from them so they are pretty much worthless. Use them to build confidence, but be sure it is confidence you build and not ego.

Take heed the advice of your peers even if you don’t agree; it’s never impossible to at least experiment with their suggestions.

Chances are, if most people are giving you the same advice, or pointing out the same things, even if they are not art critics or artists, you should pay attention to what they are saying.

12

If you are only interested in doing art for yourself, then save yourself some effort and just think the idea.

“The most important thing in art is the frame. For painting: literally; for other arts: figuratively - because, without this humble appliance, you can’t know where The Art stops and The Real World begins. You have to put a “box” around it because otherwise, what is that shit on the wall?” - Frank Zappa

Art is about communication and communication relies on context.

As Squiggly_P hinted at, craft is something different. Craft is less about communication and more about skill.

IMHO Craftless art is as boring as artless craft.

13

Counterpoint: it would have been far more difficult to convey the concept through any medium besides authenticity. That said, the piece could have been far more powerful had he worked long and hard to make his statement more metaphorically through other media.

14

Lots of opinions, and being opinions, none are wrong. So I’ll throw my 2 cents in.

I make my art for me and me alone. Most of the time I don’t know what I’m making until it becomes something others can tell what it is. IE…when drawing with a pad and pen, I usually start with a circle and some curves coming off of it. Whether that turns into a planet, bomb, or the sole of a shoe remains to be determined by my mood, my eye, and how the piece is coming along. Art is evolutionary. Some people can see something in thier eyes and recreate it perfectly, but hardly none go thru without making a change here and their to make it more pleasing to the eye. My art is more of a “growing” process…it may start out as an attempt at a sports car, but end up being some deformed person climbing out of a manhole.
When I’m working in that state (just for my pleasure) I could care less if you like it or not. Most of the time you would. However, if I’m drawing whatever it is FOR YOU (right now I’m drawing a tat for my boy), that is one of the times I’d care about outside opinions…but only the opinion of the person I’m drawing it for…the rest of the wrold can bite me lol. The ONLY other time I want your opinion is if I ask for it. Usually though, I wont ask for opinions on the piece as a whole, but rather on parts of the piece, like if I’m unsure my eyes look good with the rest of the work…I’d ask for opinions on the eyes…at that poing if you tell me my feet are drawn wrong, 9 times out of 10 your opinion will be ignored

15

My aunt is an accomplished watercolor artist. She told me that the main thing that makes art from an artist valuable is death. Specifically, if an artist develops a unique style or subject area, it may be “good” but as long as they are alive, they can produce more, thereby increasing supply and lowering price. When they die, supply is fixed and prices rise.

The issue at the heart of your question is that if you have a unique style or subject area, it is unique and new and therefore has no real benchmark except for vague comparisons, and therefore can only be critiqued against a long-standing, well-established, but different, body of work. It is difficult to say that B is better than A, when A and B have very different qualities. When Monet started painting what he saw without his glasses on, it was worthless in the beginning, highly criticized. Until he got a few friends to mimic and start the impressionistic movement, he couldn’t give it away. But after he died, the value of his work skyrocketed.

So, take heart.Get some other friends to mimic your style. Then die. Your art may be valued long after you are dead…as long as no one really likes it while you are alive.

and by the way - my opinion always counts.

16

I think a key point was made here: it depends what you intend for your art.

Modern architectural projects are works of art, but are failures no matter how good they look if they are not functional and fit for their purpose. On the other hand a wall painting need have no other purpose than aesthetics.

So taking the limited case of posting artwork on this forum in ‘finished projects’ the work to my first considerations must fall into one of two categories to deem it successful. Either A) it should showcase the capabilities of blender to product high quality commercial or ‘recognised’ artistic work (in the vein or an extension of critically successful art - or independently critically successful) - a sort of inspirational category. B) be placed for criticism by the user base here in order to obtain technical and conceptual pointers for use in subsequent projects, which are then implemented.

To my mind if a work in the ‘finished projects’ forum does not meet one of these two targets it should be considered a failure.

As I said, these are a first draft of my thoughts, and the wording may not express the sentiments very well - hopefully there is enough communication.

In short - whether something is ‘good’ or ‘successful’ art depends on it fulfilling its purpose (defined by its use).

There.

Alex

17

But why does it have to push the limits of the program? I disagree in that all it needs to do is look pleasing and the public will usually not care if it doesn’t push the program to its absolute limit.

To push a 3D program to its limit or showcase true capability (or Blender SVN as of now) nowedays would usually now mean huge complexity, heavy compositing, or photorealism. What if the artist wants a style that doesn’t need 20 million polygons, what if he doesn’t intend to use 100 compositing nodes, what if he’s not trying for photorealism, what if he doesn’t need any models that take 10000 steps to make?

18

POINTS TO PONDER BEFORE DECIDING TO DISTRIBUTE YOUR ART

Don’t compare yourself with anyone in this world. If you do so, you are insulting yourself
 ALEN STRIKE.
You are not responsible for what people think about you.
But you are responsible for what you give them to think about you.
 STANLEY FERRARD.
A man is lucky if he is the first love of a Woman.
A woman is lucky if she is the last love of a man.
 CHARLES DICKENS.
Write your Sad times in Sand, Write your Good times in Stone.
 GEORGE BERNARD SHAW.
Behind every successful man, there is an untold pain in his heart.
 BILL JACOBS .
Without your involvement you can’t succeed. With your involvement you can’t fail.
 Dr. ABDUL KALAM.
Love your job but don’t love your Company because you may not know
when your company stops loving you.
 Narayana moorthy.
You may get DELAYED to reach your Targets.
But every step you take towards your target is EQUAL to Victory.
 KARL MARX.
It’s better to loose your Ego to the one you Love,
than to loose the one you LOVE because of EGO.
 JOHN KEATS.
Don’t make promise when you are in JOY . Don’t reply when you are SAD.
Don’t take decisions when you are ANGRY. Think twice, Act wise. BE happy.
When you start caring about yourself, you start loving somebody.
But when start caring about others somebody will start loving you.
Last one is awesome!!!
What is the Secret of SUCCESS… ? “RIGHT DECISIONS”
How do you make Right Decisions…? “EXPERIENCE”
How do you get Experience… ? "WRONG DECISIONS

19

Just remember that beauty is in the eye of the beholder, so just because they say something doesn’t necessarily mean that it’s true…

20

Where did I say it should push the limits of the program?

A demonstration of capability need not extent to the limits of the program… it could just show that the limits extend at least far enough to produce a certain recognised quality - even if that does not require the use of most of the program’s capability.

You’re not getting my point there…

Alex