Why are all Mac OS X builds all using old Python?

It seems that Blender builds for other OS’s are all using Python 2.4+ yet the Mac OS X builds (MacIntel in particular) are using Python 2.3. Consequently, most of the newer scripts just won’t work :frowning: Please, is there any way to fix this??? It’s bad enough that we can’t use the scripts with Blender 2.42a, but all the builds in CVS are using Python 2.3 also. Why can’t we be =equal= to the other OS’s?

There really should be builds done with both Python versions. On OS X running Blender with a Python version other than the one installed on your system causes Blender to not run. The way to fix it is to have someone with Py 2.4 on their Mac build the binary. I’m running 2.3 on my system 10.4.8 Mac, or I’d do it myself.

I may be wrong (don’t claim to be a Python or Blender expert) but I don’t think Blender dertermines the version of Python it uses. I did notice that when upgrade to Blender 2.4 from 2.3, it wouldn’t run until I performed my own install of Python. The current builds of Blender don’t seem to like the default Python installs in OSX. Try installing your own copy of Python and see if you get better results.

Because that’s what comes standard with OS X. The number of Mac using artists that have upgraded on their own to new versions of python is tiny. The small benefits that may come with a newer version of python are far outweighed by the fact that if it was compiled against a non-standard Python, for 99% of mac Blender artists, what they download from blender.org wouldn’t even run. All the scripts in CVS should be compatible with Python 2.3, for this reason. The same goes for some other platforms too, like SGI.

Sorry Broken, but I disagree:

The number of Mac using artists that have upgraded on their own to new versions of python is tiny.
How would you know that? Has there been a survey made of Mac users? Come on, my friend, please don’t make sweeping generalizations based on just your single opinion.

The small benefits that may come with a newer version of python are far outweighed by the fact that if it was compiled against a non-standard Python…
Would you mind explaining that to all the people who have written scripts using Python 2.4 (which if you peruse the Python section of this forum, darn near all the scripts require 2.4)?

The same goes for some other platforms too, like SGI.
Give me a break. You’re comparing Mac OS-X to a company that doesn’t even exist anymore?

Bottom line is: if you search the forums like I have you’ll find numerous posts by Mac users who are unable to use current scripts because we’re the only [major] OS whose build isn’t current. The current stable version of Python is 2.5 and all the Windows builds of Blender are using at least Python 2.4.

When I was using Blender under Windows or Linux I had to manually install Python. I don’t think it’s beyond the skill level of a Mac user to do the same.

Try installing your own Python from here…
http://pythonmac.org/packages/

That’s what I did

That’s exactly what I was about to do, but was told (by Fligh in another thread last week) that I have to use the same version of Python that my build was compiled with. The only builds I’ve found (2.42a and CVS) for OS X MacIntel were all compiled with Python 2.3. I’ve since learned this is also the case for all PPC builds as well.

Installing Python 2.4 on a Mac then getting Blender to see it is a non-trivial task. The reason that broken can make that statement about most artists not having 2.4 on their Mac is that there are significant barriers to doing so, and all the bundled scripts work just fine with 2.3. It’s not an unreasonable statement to make.

And it’s not a Blender deficiency – try emailing Apple and getting them to start bundling Python 2.4 instead of 2.3 with their OS. Blender is just playing nice with the OS.

Personally, I’ve found actually downloading the sources and compiling my own Blender on Mac OS X to be less of a PITA than trying to effectively use Python 2.4, and I’m not exactly a demotivated idiot.

So to recap the situation:

a. The rest of the Blender (Windows and Linux) community is using Python 2.4+ and consequently writing scripts for Python 2.4+ and these won’t work with Python 2.3.

b. Installing Python 2.44 on a Mac is either so arduous a task, or it won’t work with Blender, that installing it isn’t an option.

So then the only viable solution is to install Bootcamp and either XP or Linux? Jeesh. :rolleyes:

Once again, the situation exists because Apple ships Python 2.3 with their OS without a user-friendly upgrade path. The Blender Python devs would love to be able to just support one Python version, but the way that Apple has Py integrated into their system makes this not possible.

Have you even tried installing your own Python? Like I said previosly, I did and Blender 2.42a runs just dandy for me.

If you want me too, I’ll run some scripts of your choosing and see if they work.

Installing Python 2.4 on a Mac then getting Blender to see it is a non-trivial task.

Yep. I downloaded it once (I’m not even sure why) and installed it and never did work out if it really did install and if so, if the OS was seeing it. Doing the recommended command line check suggested that 2.3 was still the active version.

Short of Apple bundling 2.4 (which still won’t help any existing users unless it comes as an update for older OS’s) I think the best bet is for the Python installer to perform the activation process and ensure the process was successful.

and I’m not exactly a demotivated idiot

I don’t consider myself an idiot but I’m not highly motivated by any installation procedure which requires I open the command line for any reason. I have no data to support my assumptions but I’d suggest Broken is probably on the money.

Thanks 50nIt. Haven’t tried to install it for the reason I first posted, I was told it wouldn’t work. You’re the first to tell me otherwise. I’m running OS X 10.4.8 on a MacIntel iMac, what are you running it on?

If you want me too, I’ll run some scripts of your choosing and see if they work.
The last half dozen or so scripts I tried to run all didn’t work. Most recently was the Ogre3D export script ( http://blenderartists.org/forum/showthread.php?t=78139&highlight=ogre ).

Ok, if installing Python on a Mac is so difficult and all the devs know this, why do they continue to deliver “final stable” versions of Blender with different versions of Python depending on the OS? Wouldn’t it make sense for all builds and all OS’s to use the same version?

…and I’m not exactly a demotivated idiot
Yeah, this gave me a chuckle, thanks. I’m not exactly demotivated either, but I’m starting to feel like a complete idiot for buying this iMac. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve been told, by fellow Mac users, for so many issues related to OS X, to install Bootcamp and XP…

Well I found a 3rd option: I installed Blender 2.42a and Python 2.4 under Parallels Desktop / XP Pro and it seems to work OK. Kind of a half baked (and very slow) work around, but at least I can (temporarily) run the Ogre export script without having to reboot.

I also noticed that on the “downloads” page at Blender.org there are two versions of 2.42a for PPC, one for Python 2.3 and another for Python 2.4. But for MacIntel there’s just one build for Python 2.3…

I’m glad you have it working, at least crappily.

The problem is that Blender on OSX simply won’t run if it was compiled with a different version of Python from the one the OS uses. That’s why you see binaries w/different py versions on the official download page fo OS X. It isn’t an issue for the other popular platforms. Odd that there’s only a 2.3 for MacIntel – it probably means that they don’t have a developer who’s using MacIntel with 2.4, and therefore can’t compile one.

problem is simple. the python in system (both in tiger and panther) is 2.3, so without installing anything else, we need blender to be build with python 2.3 on Os X.

It is a requirement for all scripts to be py2.3 compatible if they want to be included in official release somewhere down the way, so if scripts are py2.4 only, it is an error of the scripters.

And py2.4, if faster, dont provide much unique features that it is worth the hassle of asking users to install it.

An official build for py2.4 is available on ppc, and this since a long time. For it to work, you need to install the py2.4 from python.org, and only that one. It is not hard (no command line needed normally), but it is a separate install, and only this one will work.
anything else, py2.5, downloads from fink, darwinports or whatever wont work.

Intel builds are very new, and we will probably provide both py2.3 and py2.4 builds in the future.

leopard will also give us py2.4 or more.

I can assure you that using Blender built with Python 2.3 with a 2.4 install will NOT be all fine and dandy, it’ll blow up in your face as soon as it’ll try to use a C-extension module build for the 2.4 API in Blender’s 2.3 interpreter (same for modules that uses 2.4 features, but that’s explode less spectacularly).

Martin

Would this work?

1: Install your own copy of python 2.4/2.5
2: Complile a copy of Blender from source

… or is the limitation hard coded into Blender for the Mac Platform?

yes of course, that works.

just install the python framework, configure make or scons to point at the right location and you are done.

not tested yet 2.5, but there is no reasons