wich Canon camcorder for around 600€ ?

I want to buy a camcorder , i got around 600€ , what would you recomned me.

i want great video quality , hi def , hard disk ,

any experiences ?

for image quality its canon, but for colour it has to be nikon.
but the best i could find was:
http://www.canon.co.uk/For_Home/Product_Finder/Camcorders/High_Definition_HD/XL_H1S/index.asp
more here:
http://www.canon.co.uk/For_Home/Product_Finder/Camcorders/High_Definition_HD/index.asp

nikkon dont make good camcorders, um its gotta bw 100% a cannon xm 1 you should be able to pick one up second han for just a bit over what you have it will be SD and tape but you will never regret it

thanx menace but … what ? anyway i’ll go for canon.

I’ve bought every consumer camcorder you can think of over the years, wasting $1000’s of dollars I realize now. Supposed “Hi-Def” consumer camcorders are absolute pieces of junk. Hard Disk Camcorders, usually record in mpeg format, a lossy codec that doesn’t work well with most NLE’s. I recommend saving your money and buying a camera like this one http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/800633996-USE/Canon_1191B001_XH_A1_3CCD_HDV_Camcorder.html

Without a camera of at least this quality, you will forever linger in the home video realm. No amount of lighting or setup can make up for a good piece of hardware.
You will have to learn how to use it properly, adjust your white balance, shutter speed, and aperture, but in the end you will end up with video suitable for tv, if not the big screen.

yeah thats why id say cannon XM1 its ex professional so it has a good lens , i would of serjested an XH-A1 but there too pricey to start out on (in my world anyway)

If buying new, the Canon HV30 or 40 for tape (HDV mpeg2, .mts) based or the Canon HF range for hard disk (AVCHD). Although mpeg2 is older format it’s more workable than AVCHD and generally better quality compression at the moment.

If buying 2nd user go for a Panosonic DVX SD or HD version.

It’s all very well posters suggesting $2000 cameras and of coarse they are better but the cam is a tiny portion of the kit needed. You’ll need a lot of other stuff as well:

Spare batteries, good quality UV lens filter, good quality ND filter, polariser filter. Tripod (fluid head)

Then you’ll quickly discover the on camera mic is shite and need a shotgun mic (Rode) and an external audio recorder like a BeachTek.

Do yourself a favour and look at the costs of decent quality immediate add ons you’ll need. No good having a $2000 cam without a decent panning tripod or using on cam mic.

The HV30/40 has an hdmi out so in a studio set up for chroma key for example you can output via hdmi to a Black magic Intensity and hd RAID uncompressed 1920x1080 4:2:2 bypassing mpeg compression. You’d be tethered to a PC though.

The HV40 or HF range are brilliant cams, they have pretty good selection of manual controls and very good lenses for fixed format that is. Full size HD CMOS sensor however fast panning will result in ‘Rolling Shutter’ even a problem with the RED cmos based cameras. Something to be aware of.

Here’s a basic list of essentials for any cam:

Zebra 70% and 100%
Progressive 24p and perhaps 30p
Manual exposure
Manual shutter
Manual focus
Gain control (HV30/40 is a bit fiddly but it can be done)
Custom profiles like switching off/reducing sharpening and all the other image ‘enhancements’ so prevelant in consumer cams to make the video straight off the cam look so good until you try to colour correct it. :wink:

Your link is to a HDV MiniDV cam which is mpeg2!

I have absolutely no problem with HDV. AVCHD is another story. But it’s pretty irrelevant anyway as it’s generally considered best to export to an intermediate codec like Lagarith, editing mpeg2/4 repeatedly will reduce quality. Or for compositing to png or tiff image sequences.

Without a camera of at least this quality, you will forever linger in the home video realm. No amount of lighting or setup can make up for a good piece of hardware.
You will have to learn how to use it properly, adjust your white balance, shutter speed, and aperture, but in the end you will end up with video suitable for tv, if not the big screen.
http://www.vimeo.com/1333375

http://rebelsguide.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1641&start=0

ok lets not start to get things twisted here MINI-DV is the best formatte out there and i wont sit back and see it knocked to so someone who is a noob to video as it is most probably what they will end up useing(in the industry). not only is it a very high quality footage medium but it allows footage to be transfer quickly and esily from studeo setup to studeo setup with total ese and no loss of quality. one of its other upsides is the abillity to record to tape then “lock” it this alows you to keep all your raw footage in a very stable format for years to come with no time put down sending it all out to keep on dvds and the whatnot

to keep this short anything but mini dv is a waste of money, so are consumer models(if you buy a consumer model HD camera at the moment you wont get the crystal sharp images you want youll get a blurry mess)

my honist advice is to but and older but ex profetional SD MINI-DV camcorder as although you wont have the pixels withs you will get sharper images anyway

PEACE

thanx , but i dont want profesional quality.

I want a good quality , to make personal stuff , match moving stuff , clips for vjing ,adding fx and so on, nothing for tv or similar , just some acceptable nice quality of video.

im not going to spend more than 700 euros , so what is better canon ?

and wich model would you recomm around that prize ?

i would recoment ebaying(they dont sell them in shops any more sadly) yourself a canon xm1/xm2 (two different models but no real diff in quality )

If match moving is on your list then go for a 3CCD cam not cmos. Consider taking a look at a Panasonic DVX100A or B 2nd user.

Ultimately the choice is your’s, whatever you shortlist, see if you can get your hands on them, try them out.

What do other VJays that you know choose?

I was looking at all the Canon consumer camcorders for my daughter’s site, youtube.com/euchante, and was browsing Best Buy when I saw an open box special - half price, US$150, for a Samsung DX-205, which I am quite happy with. So, number 1. - be selective, but also be open to getting a great deal or a used one.
2. It shoots widescreen 720x480/30i so I deinterlace and transcode using VLC, she edits in Windows Movie Maker, and I watermark and stretch it back out to 16:9 in Blender.
3. It records to a flash drive or mini-dvd. She uses the flash drive all the time. I recommend a flash drive over a HDD, because you can drop a flash drive, and when she want to transfer to her PC for editing, you just pop out the little SD chip and pop it into your PC. You dont have to move the camera or connect the camera to the pc via cords and such. I was all HDD but the Flash Drive is very reliable and convenient, and a 1GB chip is cheap and holds everything you want.
4. The viewfinder flips around so you can see yourself when you are filming. This is very important to her. It even has a compositing grid overlay you can turn on.
5. Little remote is sweet for zooming and stop/start record. highly recommended. It saves from reaching around the camera to start/stop, as you invariably move the camera, and that all interrupts your recording flow.
6. Records to MP4 format, very compact and easy to work with.
7. Color quality in nominal light is nice. example http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-YVqj6NHps and holds up in full res
8. face recognition/focus is very important. Her old camera would fuzz out every now and then. This camera locks onto her face via recognition, and then there is a setting to keep the face in focus. Highly recommended.

Just some features I think you should consider. Other than Canon, I was considering the JVC Everio(?) as a full HD.

Panasonic is a good second choice, so is Sony, of course.