I figured I’d better post this before I got too much further, since I’m now going into the texturing and rigging phase, both of which depend on good topo and modeling technique to work. Obviously I owe a huge debt to all of the people who’ve been doing this since Blender was in the 2.30’s (and before), particularly toloban, as well as the recent posters with similar (and better!) models (BenDansie and chimpesque’s). I also want to give a tip 'o the hat to Mr.Bomb for his fantastic tuts. This is a great community.
So, I"m doing this model to be a CG character in a live-action movie. I’m aiming for just shy of a “Beowulf” level of realism, which might be a bit high given my non-Pixar render-farm (hah!) computer, but hey, I’m having fun just making progress toward that goal.
The character’s name, for now, is Ceara (KYAR a), which is an Irish name meaning “fiery red.” She’ll have red hair, see. Sort of a warrior-queen type. (I did up some particle hair for her, but it just isn’t good enough yet - still working on it.) She’s not yet textured, just procedural with SSS, except the eye, of course, which is UV’d. Enough blah blah, here’s some renders and wires. Thanks for your comments and critques.
She looks very promising! Great texturing and use of SSS so far; it’ll look even better with more complex lighting, like with a Lightcuts or IBL build.
I’m very interested in your body topology, which looks very good. I like the ribs! I’ve been having a lot of trouble with the crotch and butt in my own modeling, but you’ve got it pretty much down pat. Next wireframe render be sure to select ‘All edges’ in the ‘Mesh Tools More’ panel in the Editing context (F9) in Edit Mode.
Only C&C I’ve got is mainly to do with the head, which might do well with a little tweaking if these are not stylistic choices. I think the depth of the forehead is creating an extra ridge between the eye and nose; the forehead ridge (where the eyebrow sits) should flow directly into the eye-socket at that corner. Unless it’s intentional, the forehead could do with being a bit shallower and flatter. Besides that, the mouth is a feasible width across the face, but the lips seem too evenly shaped, they need more thickness at the center of both upper and lower lips. The earlobe seems a bit thin, the neck seems a bit thick, and the hands and feet could use some rounding out and finger/toe length variance, but that’s about it.
I’m looking forward to seeing your progress (and some more wire renders)!
My suggestion would be to completely forget about the model for a week or two as you work on the rig separately. The rig can aways be adjusted to the model once it’s finished.
Once you’ve finished the rig, go back to model and detach the head, arms, and legs. Then work on tweaking each part separately. The time away from the model will allow the work to sink in and give you a better perspective.
Once you have the model tweaked to how you like, attach the parts back together and apply the rig. Make any necessary adjustments to the rig. Then focus on clothing.
PS
Nude women have been modeled and drawn since man first picked up a pencil. Don’t see anyone getting tired of it anytime soon. [based on the cynicism of your title]
Good work so far. You topology seems good most of your problems seem to be more anatomy related, try out this book " An atlas of human anatomy for the artist" its probabley the best begining artist text on anatomy. Also check out Scott Eaton web site, he has anatomy tutorials and recommends a couple of good anatomy books.
P.S any chance you can post a blend file I would really love to take a closer look at you topology, screen grabs are good. but learning is so much easier with a blend file in front of you. I have tried my hand at modeling a human face but a whole figure is my next project after am done with BWC
Now that’s why I like this forum - all very good input!
(I’m at work now, so I can’t post any further images, btw.)
bunny: thanks, that rib thing was something I saw in one of toloban’s models. And yes, the pelvis/butt is a hard area to model since the curves change so abruptly - I had to spend a long time getting it to where it didn’t look all wrong. And you’ve hit on one of the areas I’m not quite sure I like: her forhead and eyes. I used a reference that she now looks nothing like, after much tweaking. I think I need to find a face I like and sculpt it til I like it. What, by the way, is “Lightcuts?”
ropsta: that is advice I’d never even considered…as I’m pretty green at rigging, I never would have thought you could do such a thing. But I see the benefits, especially in the head area.
tyrant monkey: thanks, I’ll check out those ref’s. I have a couple books on anatomy from the library, but to be honest, I pretty much stuck to my photographic backgrounds during modeling and spent about 20 minutes tweaking the model while looking at anatomy references…lots more work there, I know. (And yes, I’ll eventually post a blend, I think.)
3Dguru: I think you’re right. Lots of tweaking in the eye area to do yet.
Thanks for the great feedback. I’ll keep at it and make some tweaks (and post some better wires, too.)
Something I forgot to mention earlier:
-she’s entirely my own; no makehuman or borrowed bits. I started her with a plane and followed Mr. Bomb’s face tut, and she grew from there, based on reference photos and topo studies of other models on CGtalk and here. (Not that there’s anything wrong with using resources - its just that I wanted to see how long this would take, and how difficult this would be from scratch, since at this point, this is a hobby.)
I’m not sure I like the double brow lines… you might want to fix it, or make it not so prominent.
You’ve got a little glitch going on with the forearms/shoulders, but that could just be the lighting and perspective, so I’m not sure it really is a problem.
I haven´t posted much yet in this forum, but i am not the guy telling you all the stuff you made good… i am for the constructive critics
Said this just in advance, because i never make another artists work bad.
To give it a smooth start the pros
very good and straight forward topology
nice skin shader
great chest/rib section
now the parts to work on (in my opinion, but some points are still a matter of personal taste)
neck - seems too thick
clavicle - needs more definition
forarm section - consists of 10 muscles in 2 or more detailed 3 groups,
wrist section - “feels” like the part between forearm and hand is too short
head - the brow is too high and too round - but there are surely ppl in RL with such an head
eyes - the “double eyelid” like a double-chin
lips - english´s not my native. hard to tell, the actual lip is too much turned inside the mouth
lower legs - you could work out the muscle of the shank with the topology.
my C&C sounds bad, but it isnt. overall its a great mesh and with some retopo here and there and some changes you get a great base mesh you can use for dozends of characters. once the topo is great its just pushing and pulling some quads and all´s perfect.
Lightcuts is new lighting code being added by UncleZeiv; there’s some test builds at graphicall.org. By using a HDR spherical probe image as the ‘World’ texture and the ‘Environment map’ button in the Lightcuts panel in the render context, it automatically creates an efficient complex lighting setup by sampling the world texture image. However, I found, it doesn’t yet work with SSS.
So, a better idea might be to use an IBL build (also available at graphicall.org, there’s some info on IBL builds in the multilayered SSS skin thread and at BlenderNation here), which uses new code by broken that samples an HDR probe image directly and automatically lights the scene accordingly, plus it works with SSS.
Thanks for the excellent crits/comments. I’m uploading a bunch of more detailed wires for scrutiny, as well as a revised face shot. This face is what she’s “supposed” to look like, meaning, it’s how I envision her face. I worked on just about every vert, and included the neck/collarbone as well. She looks more like my original model now. Bump/spec/col UV maps and hair will improve things, I’m sure, once I get to that. (I intend to bake my procedurals to a UV map, and then photoshop the heck out of it to get the texture maps.)
arexma: believe me, you’re crit doesn’t come across as harsh in any way - I really appreciate those kinds of comments. Danke! (I spent some time in Austria - beautiful country.) The “double chin” eyelids are actually a feature of my reference photo - I’m keepin’ 'em.
Thanks, bunny, for the info - I’ll check it out. Great lighting is the key to a lot of this stuff! BTW, the issue with the SSS skin shader thread you’re refering to is the render time - I’m looking at doing an animation, and that node-based shader takes a LONG time to render out. (I know - I downloaded it…but oh man, the wow-factor!)
Ok I know these crits will sound rude, but I don’t get why everyone always wants to make nude women. We know it can be done already, there is nothing to prove. So because of that my crits will be heavy otherwise I’m just encouraging this behavior.
Those toes are waaay too long…and the hands are too wide from the back.
She has somewhat man-hands right now…the fingers look long on the inside but much shorter from the back, that isn’t right they should be the same length.
The head is too tall. Remember the eyes should be halfway between the top of the head and the chin, right now they are much lower than that, because the head is too tall.
The ankles in the back are just straight down, they should probably go inward a bit. (Where the achilles tendon is) Right now she has no calf muscle definition because of this. Hot women have nice calves and lean ankles.
This chick has almost no cheekbones, Is that OK with you?
Her eye socket protrudes from the skull. Is that OK with you?
The last two I say “is that OK with you” because you may be going for a certain look, but for me those two items make her somewhat ugly.
Yea, that is sort of rude. He’s not trying to prove that it can be done. He just wants to learn how to do it, and make his own character for his project. Everytime you model something, are you going for a sort of “world record”?
Weird…Your crits are fine though.
Whoa, slow down! Like 3DMedieval says, I’m not trying to prove anything with the subject matter, other than to make something that’s entirely my own, every vert of it - the fact that she’s a nude woman is really not the point. Take a look at my other (sadly unfinished) projects here on this forum. As I say in my first post, she’s a character for a movie I hope to make. And when I’ve finished her, I’ll have a base mesh with good topo I can work with for other characters (of which there will be about 8 or so - half of them male, 2 of them not human).
That said, your crits are actually quite valuable, and like the others above, you’re helping me see where I need to work on the model. Hands and feet are off, ankles, and that mouth…giving me troubles big time. As for the eyes: she really looks quite a bit like my reference photo now, but perhaps more tweaking is in order - sigh. I’ll have to study my anatomy more. i do want ti be clear, though, on her purpose: she’s to be a “warrior” type, a bit uncivilized and rough, not a Barbie doll. Once she’s outfitted with clothes and hair, some of the features that seem off might work better. And like bunny mentions, I need a better lighting rig. Not to mention textures! I’m hoping for some scrutiny of the topo, too - anyone see something that can’t be animated? (I’ve selected for triangles, and right now, the only tris are in the eyes, where they form the pupil. Normals are good, clean mesh, etc.) I’ll work on her more tonight and hopefully address some of the off-parts. Thanks for your crits, folks, and keep 'em coming.
OK, a bit of face tweaking (hey, cheekbones!) and some hand/foot area work. Not much on the body -mostly the face, so I’m still working on the details. Very subtle differences in these uploads. I did tweak the AO a bit, so the tones look better (at least on my monitor.) As an aside, and to anyone new to modeling, the biggest problem I’ve run into has to do with perspective distortion. Something that looks really off in an orthagonal view looks correct in perspective, and then wrong again in a different camera lens angle - but we work from photo references with unknown focal lengths and angles! This is a big issue for organic modeling (not architecture, since we can determine angles and distortion, and correct for them).
Sorry, but that’s not what I meant. I meant the actual brow line is a little odd, not sure why, but it takes a little bit of the realism off the head for some reason… maybe it’s the lack of eyebrows that throws my eyes off. I’d have to see it with eyebrows to really tell if what I’m seeing is right or wrong.
Commiecomrade: Ohhh, I see. OK, well, I’m inclined to work on the eyebrows, then. Ah the joys of particles…:spin:
Modron: I’ll ckeck it out - I’ve been playing with the fatty areas around the cheeks ad nauseum, still can’t get it where I like it. (BTW: I see in your sig you have some nodes tuts…quick question: do node-based materials add significant render time vs a procedural vs a UV-mapped image texture, all things relatively equal?)
Sort of a warrior-queen type. (I did up some particle hair for her, but it just isn’t good enough yet - still working on it.) She’s not yet textured, just procedural with SSS, except the eye, of course, which is UV’d. Enough blah blah, here’s some renders and wires. Thanks for your comments and critques.
