Are you ready for new BMesh tools?

Consider the fact that most of Blender’s development is volunteer-based and thus Ton and co. have no real power to strictly commission developers to work on a certain part of Blender at any one time unless they’re one of the devs. on the Institute’s payroll.

The only way to get more devs. working on Bmesh is if Ton brought more of the current developers into a paid development position where only then can they assign them to work on a certain area.

Personally, it may be a nice thing for Ton to offer original Bmesh author Geoffrey Bantle a paid position to help Joeedh finish Bmesh, but I can’t decide for him and he has made it clear before that he intends for only a small number of devs. to be on his payroll as a part of his Blender network idea.

The latest Bmesh branch I tested out actually works quite good, a few broken features like snapping the 3d cursor and a few others but other than that I could consider using it for some serious modeling :slight_smile:

Nicely worded, and astute advice. This is clearly the way forward.

lol even duke came out (in a bad but expected way)
ok, just kidding, you can’t really complain that bmesh’s been slowly delivered, just keep up the good work whatever how long it takes, we’ll sure be waiting (except another alternative shows up)

I’m worried after reading the developers meeting minutes, it looks like there is a plan on improving the knife tool.
This statement makes me wonder how really bmesh is near completion… :confused:

Sometimes I think I’d prefer blender as a commercial software, just to be able to say my disappointment about someting, like in this case.

You can`t call a project dead when the orginal creator of it is back into it! Read all the “meetings” and see that B-MESH is still on the roadmap. But on the last 2 weeks the focus is DEBUGING cause the bug list it is a little big.

Rememer that 2.6 will be the begining of new features comming back in a little revisions like 2.60 , 2.61 , 2.62 like http://wiki.blender.org/index.php/Dev:2.5/Source/Development/Todo

I see that everybody comments but not see the every sunday meeting in part and the talks of the main developers. B-MESH will not be dead and is needed for lots of new stuff comming.

If you look more at GSOC projects you will find that two of them depends on B-MESH ? Iet you say will go dead ?!

I guess 2.59 will include the new Carve lib for booleans http://carve-csg.com/

… please don`t judge before infrom yourself!

The B-Mesh to do list http://wiki.blender.org/index.php/Dev:2.5/Source/Development/Todo/BMesh and you call it dead ?

People wake up from the cage cause you act like animals in rage! One developer for a project big like Blender itself it is something some programmers call it “torture”.

There it is a plan of 2 months of development for 2.6 to finish what is not finished.

Thanks Numarul7, for saying what I was thinking but was to tired to write. Bashing a guy that´s sick for not working harder makes you all look like Scrooge´s. Bmesh is vital for Blender´s future development, and the core developers acknowledge that all the time if you bother to read the mailing list, and attend the meetings. I would say patience, young padawans, but you remind me more of impatient Sith apprentices, to be honest;)

Maybe there’s a language deficit from my side but it looks like in this thread the defense is raising shields beforehand against no one.
There were no aggressions directed to Joe, just some legit complaints about the long wait, but nothing nasty in my opinion.

That roadmap changes if you can find the one from 2009 when sintel started you will see that bmesh was 2 months from going in 2 years ago. 2.58 bug count has stayed stubbornly high trust me when I say bmesh has way way more bugs than trunk. the are macro bugs as in you don’t have to do much to run into them which makes me think the harder to find ones are still lurking in there.

Any timeline of when bmesh gets into trunk I would treat as “Valve Time”.

edit 1+ to what Carrozza said

Having been in a similar position to Joe, I think I´m in good standing to say that even those seemingly innocent complaints hurt way more than you think when it´s out of your control to do anything about it, and it doesn´t help the situation one bit. Joe is working at the hardest pace he can for the moment. I personally gave up on a project recently because I got tired of the constant innuendos and badmouthing, and decided that my health was more important to me than trying to appease other people all the time.

I wanted to stay out of this thread as bmesh really is Duke!

But I agree with Carozza… no one has bashed Joe here that I can see…
Actually, no one has even complained really…

and yet we are swamped by “white knights”.

I have long since stopped caring about bmesh… If it makes it to trunk soon I can only be pleasantly surprised.
Multiple assurances of how close it is to merge only give me deja vu and should be taken with a boatload of salt based on recurring history of the last few years!

Just looking at the wiki and Tyrant is right… still lots to do and that’s only with minor testing!

The above isn’t a complaint. The above isn’t a knock at Joe, it’s just the state of bmesh.

All i want is what 2.49 had (bevel, oldschool knife options like constrain to axis, snap to vertex, loopcut that can bias one edge or the other etc), then new features: an inset tool, point to point knife tool and ngons and I’m a happy modeller.

And you don’t need bmesh for any of that!

B-mesh has potential… give it time

This is not an issue with Joe, it’s an issue with Blender and the Blender Foundation. Whether we call it BMesh or not, the missing data structures in code, and the lack of nGon support is a “big” disadvantage in Blender vs. every other 3D program, free or not. This is a big project, and the level to which it was supported by BF was nearly nil, until very recently, and a mistake IMHO. Personally every other development project should be put on hold and this should be put into trunk and stabilized first given how many different things in the program this will touch in the future (modeling, sculpting, UV’s, triangulation before rendering, shaders). I mean it’s a CORE functionality, and should never have been carried along by ONE novice coder transitioning to professional coder over the past few years. In that regard Joe deserves significant kudos for carrying this torch.

The only issue with Joe I’ve had is that I feel he should have kept his “health” to himself, particularly since this information was passed right after he started asking for donations. From the standpoint of a professional, and also a donator, this is NOT something I want hanging over me or anyone else.
Tons of people have personal and family illnesses to deal with, but they shouldn’t be brought out as part of the request for donations for a project. I mean if he is/was that sick, then he should stop working on the project, for his own good, and not “toe some line” while continuing to accept donations. Even worse, we now have the “sympathy police” bring it up every single post related to B-mesh, when the discussion is just about the progression and necessity of the project itself.
Whether it’s “intentional” or not, it feels manipulative to me and quite unprofessional. Myself, my mother, and my father have been sick with hospital time in the last three years, but if I was working on a project and asking for donations I would “never” bring this up to a group of strangers as reasoning for slow progress.

I’d evaluate whether or not I could continue (and stop asking for money), not mention it all, or just put the project on pause for a while and make it very clear that donations can and should stop.

Just my personal take on it of course, and hopefully people can see where I’m coming from, no “ill will” towards Joe at all, or anyone working on Blender code/projects. Personal problems and projects monitored by strangers who really become your customer once they give you money, no matter how little that may be, don’t mix. Like it or not, that’s not an unreasonable opinion, and one of the reasons open source projects with “volunteers” sometimes take some heat. This is further compounded when people are “learning as they go”, which tends to make the project take time and cost more than it would just to pay a professional to do it. Even worse when the progress of the project is hindered by the adoption timetable of the primary development system (Blender Foundation), as is the case here.

That said, I hope this gets finished soon, and I hope Joe feels well and has a good life. I’ll certainly be happy to send him a generous “tip” once this whole thing is finalized and in the trunk, he deserves it.

+bump!

I donated again, please guys and gals, pitch in one more time. If you have the cash why not donate 1-2-3 beer money to BMesh instead. Also I have better economy now than never, and I suppose medical bills and things are rough in the states.

btw, there’s two more devs on bmesh integration, so joeedh aint alone pulling this together wich is awesome.

Thanks again for your effort. all devs. joe, campbell and the lots.

So the items on the todo are the only things stopping this from getting into trunk, or are there other things that need work first.

I agree that the Foundation should have really devoted at least one paid member of staff to the development, and support of Bmesh before now as it’s an integral part, or will be when it’s done of Blender, it’s essentially at it’s core.

Tools like Bsurface and all of the excellent modelling add-ons that are developed to quite a extensive degree will need to be fixed/ re-wrote to work with Bmesh. Something that could have been avoided if it were brought into trunk at an earlier stage and battle tested by the many users, sure it would have made a few builds a little unstable, but they could have used the Beta tags until it was solid enough to cope with the work load.

Campbell was coding on it a bit, but I’ll assume since the bugtracker really exploded since the 2.58 release that he is back working on stabilization.

Judging how often GSoC projects also die and Ton mentioning he has issues finding longterm coders I also can see the issue Ton is in. If BMesh would also a big priority for Ton for some degree I would imagine that resources would be addressed. So it is hard to guess what is really happening.

There is bad management everywhere guys. It is a two sided coin.

i will say again. its not a problem that bmesh is not finished. the problem is that a lot of modeling tools from 2.49 were not ADDED to 2.5 because of bmesh. when we asked them to add the tools back since bmesh is not finished they said no.

so again. you add all the bevel functions(with bevel center and recusrive) and knife back to 2.5 and we will be fine. then we can whait for bmesh . again the knife tool with everything from 2.49 and the bevel.

agree with blend_B :slight_smile: