So I’m really at the point of needing to push texturing/surfacing to the next level. Blender on it’s own really isn’t cutting it (shouldn’t be news to anyone) so I’ve busy looking at options.
Unless I’ve missed something, I think it’s basically down to two options, 3DCoat Textura and Substance Painter.
My pro and cons keep going back and forth between the two, with the heart mostly saying Textura and mind thinking Painter.
I’m only considering Painter via Steam, since there is no way I’m doing subscription and short of any sales they are basically the same price.
Of course one downside is it still means giving money to Adobe, not something I’m keen on.
Now I’ve tested out Textura a bit and it seems to cover most of the bases and do what one would want, it’s not the most polished app/UI with some buggy features but should get the job done and its nice to support a bit of the underdog.
But then Painter is ‘Industry Standard’, it looks more complete and there are a mass of tutorials and resources out there for it and while the Steam version only gets any updates for the calendar year, I’ve read more then once some people say it really doesn’t need anything else and that was talking about a version from a couple of years ago.
So assuming the steam version really does just keep working without any updates for years to come, then it shouldn’t matter.
So yeah, not really sure which way to jump. Anyone with more experience with either or both got any thoughts or something I’ve missed?
Pilgway may be an ‘underdog’, but that’s partially because of junk like this. If I’m remembering correctly, they previously had clauses in their EULA that attempted to prohibit the use of their software for subject matter they deemed morally suspect. Morally suspect to them includes witches and wizards.
Yeah, I read a bit about that but doesn’t really bother me, I mean how would know.
I had a quick look at Mixer, but it didn’t last long. Not being able to change any key-mapping was a real pain (wanting to adjust viewport rotate/pan/zoom to be the same I have Blender and even a couple other apps) and there where a few other things I think at the time I wasn’t all that happy with which made me think it just wasn’t going to really work for me.
I dont know why exactly (but know what its something related to paint brushes, brushes sensivity to pressure on tablet and ability to paint normals iirc) but a lot of people claim what 3d Coat are way more better for handpainted textures rather than painter.
So if you targeting handpainted textures 3d Coat are, probably, will be the better options to investigate.
Also, just in case, there’s no such nonsense about witchcraft or wizardry, etc in EULA of 3d coat.
If you targeting various tasks and they more or fully toward realism/stylization - when painter can become your best friend.
And Substance are more of a software suit. In case you need something more specific - its probably would be doable to do with Substance Painter + Substance Designer.
And you’re right: Painter have tons of resources from tutorials to smart material and filters.
And yes, when your 1 year of steam Painter is over - it continue to work just without updates. My Painter are already “expired”.
Alternatively: latest version of Marmoset Toolbag have texturing. I use marmoset for bakes and didnt try to texture, so cant really say anything bad or good.
Im personally can highly recommend Painter over other alternatives.
Yeah, I’ve seen that a couple of times as well and while I may want to do that a little bit, I think I’m much more leaning towards ‘stylized realism’.
I had a bit of a read about it and on top of being around twice the price, one of the first features I went looking for was good UDIM support and from what I could tell Marmoset was very so-so to not really supporting it at all. I get the feeling that Marmoset is mostly used for UV unwrapping and bakes and all final texturing is done with Painter and then the whole lot is moved over to ones renderer of choice.
Well, i dont know how well it can support UDIMs specifically for texturing, but just for bakes there no problems at all. I regularly bake maps for models with UDIMs.
Not really. Marmoset doesnt have any options for unwrapping, even auto-unwrap for quick results. Literally zero tools for UVs in Marmoset.
Basically its only about bakes and Marmoset are really-really good at this. Its really freakin fast even with 4k bakes, even with x64 samples (supersampling/antialiasing). It have tons available maps and other cool features.
Hmm, OK, I must have been thinking of something else that was the go-to workflow.
Maybe it was Maya for UV, Marmoset for baking, Painter for texturing.
I use painter and I get it via the subscription method.
The main reason for going via the subscription route is being able to access the Adobe material library with the points you get with the subscription. I think they are very useful for creating the base material for models.
It is also really easy to cancel. which works for me as my current workflow means that it takes sometime before I get to the texturing stage.
You might be thinking of Rizom UV. Which from what I’ve seen is quite impressive
Yeah, there is no way I’ll ever do subscription, I want something I know will be there and usable for the long term without basically never-ending payments.
While I’m sure the Adobe material library is all good stuff, there appears to be a community one as well (https://substance3d.adobe.com/community-assets) which is free and all looks pretty good. This would be on top of any other sources like Artstation for one off buying if need be.
So based on all that and what one can make from other free material images, etc I don’t think a sub is really needed for base stuff.
Having said that, things do seem to be pointing more and more towards Painter.
+1 for Substance Painter. Can’t live without it. And Marmoset Toolbag for baking.
Edit: and btw. right now I’m subbing (black Friday sale was good), but before that I was using it through steam. And to be honest, it’s not like you have to upgrade each year.
Edit2: Ah, Quixel Mixer is not bad for painting too. But no baking in it. I’ve used it for couple of projects (but still Painter is best)
I use both 3DCoat and Painter for work, and for stylised realism, Painter is my preferred choice.
Really, the main distinction is: Painter is better for non-destructive work, generators, masks, curves… Whereas 3DCoat works best when you intend to paint it all by hand.
I’m looking forward to a future in which I can use Painter for all that I use 3DCoat for, but it really does have the upper hand in handpainted work, and is a far more complete ‘Photoshop-like’ experience with transform tools, warping, merging layers etc.
I also use it for all my retro game art because of its fantastic pixel brush!
Assuming that the steam version does just keep working, which is the whole point of it, I suspect I can go 2-3 years or so between ‘upgrades’. I mean I’m still using my old copy of Audition CS6, which works just fine and does all I need.
I really don’t see me doing all that much handpainted work or any retro game art at all. So once again we are back to Painter, even if it does mean giving Adobe money…
Well, that’s good news, since I’ve just done the deed and purchased Painter, so let the fun begin.
On one minor downside, tho I think I’ve managed to get it mostly OK (and to be fair, I do need glasses, I’m getting old), Paint largely lacks any good UI scaling options.
Say what you like about Blender, but it really does have a nice and non-blurry UI size adjustment. Guess I just thought that these day’s, what with various size screens and ever higher resolutions, that good UI scaling/options would be normal. I guess not.
Thankfully my 27" screen is 1440p and not 4K, otherwise I think I really would be in trouble.
I have SP via Steam, and regardless of whether you want the subscription even short term for the Adobe Substance Source library do check them out for their freebies at least. In order to encourage subscribing, there’s a generous amount of freebies there.
You can find a lot of free sbsars outside the official free community assets as well. Some of the various CC0 texture sites offer them: https://3dassets.one/#license=cc-0&type=sbsar&order=latest. These can also be used in Blender with the Substance addon if you don’t use Substance Painter.
And of course you can make materials in Substance Painter yourself from textures off Polyhaven or whatever that have diffuse/rough/normal/displacement/etc. maps.
Mine is from either 2020 or 2019 with no sign of issues yet. That’s not long that long, but so far so good. Eventually it may need to be replaced if newer graphics cards or processors or whatever don’t recognize it, but that applies to any perpetual licensed 3D software and periodically buying a new SP version every few years as needed will cost less than the monthly subscription.
Ahh, cool, thanks for that, I’ll check it out as I slowly build up my own local library.
So far what seems to be the most useful a fewest of free options are things like alphas/normal maps that can be used to add very nice looking details that have ‘fake’ depth without having to model it all.
Sure it doesn’t hold up to really close inspection, but most of the time that doesn’t matter.
That’s my thinking as well. For the cost of a single monthly sub once a year, you will have spent the same as the Steam license, while being able to fully use it the whole time.
Yes one misses out on the new features each year, but that just means you get a whole bunch of them in one go every few years.
I play around a bit with that but again trying to deal with the UI, etc in the short term I got better results just using Blender nodes for the fabric stuff I was trying to create.
With only a few hours using Substance Painter and working through the basic getting started tutorials, I can see why it’s the “Industry Standard”.
Blender is miles away and will never match it (not that one would really ever expect it to). Mixer, nope, really just a means to access the Megascans and use them. Tried ArmorPaint (even compiled it myself) and while a setup from Blender, still not even close to Painter.
3DCoat(Textura) is I guess sort of in the same ballpark, but in a number of ways only just and even then it needs to be a pretty big ballpark…
As for Mari or any others, I’ve not used or looked at them, so can’t say for sure, but while I guess good for somethings, likely not equal to everything Painter can do.
Hence, my point, which I am getting to. I suspect if one has used Material Maker and it does the job, hence thinking they just don’t need Substance Designer, then if it is anything like Painter in its range of features/UI for what it does, then chances are they are really missing out.
This mirrors my experience. I tried Armor paint and I didn’t like it. Went to mixer and tried my best to believe that it was all I needed because I’m a cheapskate. Eventually gave in and gave painter a try using the 1 month free trial. I haven’t looked back (This was late 2020).
I do want to give blender a try from a node painting perspective. I think for bash items it would be quite useful. I just need to make time for it.
Never say never - eg. sculpting now is really good (though not as good as zbrush, but for a lot of things it’s good enough) .But yea, it would be really hard thing to catch up. I was really hoping for this to get implemented last year though… But so far no luck.
If Blender did a few things (like good layers and better baking) it would be already really really useful. At least for me, simplifying workflow (no need to shuffle models around) even if sacrificing a bit of capabilities would be great for at least couple of things.
Don’t totally disregard it though - There are some great (niche) applications for it (and hopefully it gets improved). For example if you need to texture paint a rock, it’s really great (and other things that megascans-based smart materials are great at).
.But yea, it would be really hard thing to catch up. I was really hoping for