I am currently using 3DS Max with a student license so I can learn how to model. I am interested in both organic and inorganic polygon modeling, rigging, animation, and UV mapping. Pretty much everything, I guess.
I love 3DS Max.
I hate Blender.
Before you try to sell me on Blender let me explain that I tried using Blender 3 times before I started using 3DS Max. I had an absolutely miserable time. When I switched to 3DS Max, it was like a weight had been lifted and I’ve been learning over twice as fast than when I was using Blender. Please understand that my love for 3DS Max has nothing to do with my lack of experience, but the fact that the software works the same way my brain does. What I mean by this is that I barely use tutorials - because I can learn just by playing around with the software and guessing what the different functions do. I have never had a single issue with 3DS Max. I have no interest in being told “You will get used to blender and like it more”.
However, I don’t like the idea of all my projects getting stamped with a watermark that says I can’t use them commercially. At the moment, I have no plans to use them for making money. However, I still hate the idea of not having a choice later in my life. I want my work to be owned by me. With the removal of perpetual licenses from Autodesk, I would have to pay $1,200. In 20 years, I could have bought a car for the price of the software. I can’t afford it.
So, I opened up Blender, hoping that what I learned in 3DS Max would make me enjoy modeling in Blender more. My issue isn’t that Blender is more difficult to use, or less intuitive. My issue is I am not having fun. I just don’t like the way the program works. Additionally, blender just looks worse no matter which theme I use.
Didn’t know that spiel was going to go that long. Basically what I want to know is does anyone else think Blender needs heavy modification for them to enjoy modeling in it? If so, what can be done?
Specifically, I don’t like:
Blender has LOTS of functions/buttons. I don’t know if that’s because it has more features, or if it just shows more of them rather than putting them in submenus. Is there a way to downsize the program to a more manageable state? If not, it’s not a big deal since this issue IS related to my lack of knowledge with the program.
The ‘left-click’ function is just stupid. In 3DS Max, I very rarely (if at all) use the pivot. It is more of a behind-the-scenes function. Is there a way to get rid of the pivot and use left-click for selection while making rightclick more useful? I am worried there isn’t a way since that’s how you place objects, but I prefer 3DS Max’s way of just clicking on the screen. I know I can probably change the hotkeys to mimic this behavior, but the pivot will still be sitting there and it will still be how I place objects. I don’t want to use it for anything other than some functions (like mirror).
The design is visually repulsive. I don’t know if this is just personal preference, but I don’t think it was designed to look neat. Is there a theme/template/whatever that you think makes it look significantly more pleasant? If you don’t know what I’m talking about, then it’s probably just personal preference. I understand this may make me sound unprofessional, but that’s fine. Modeling for me is a hobby and if I’m looking at a repulsive interface, I won’t be enjoying it. 3DS Max is pretty, blender is not - and that DOES matter to me. I think it has to do with the buttons being clunked together and the submenu buttons being really small. This may also go into my first point with just having too many buttons on a screen. It’s not only confusing, but repulsive. As much of a hindrance the ribbon in 3DS Max is, it really does make the interface a lot cleaner. To summarize, Blender LOOKS like it’s open source. By that, I mean tiny buttons are added all over the place and there’s a ton of submenus with tiny little buttons.
I don’t like the hotkeys in blender. I prefer using hotkeys exclusively to toggle what I’m doing. I.E. in edit poly mode, I could hit 1,2,3,4,5 to switch from vertex, edge, edge loop, poly, poly group. Outside of edit poly, I can use q, w, e, and r to control what kind of object manipulation I want to do (select, move, rotate, scale). Outside of that, I use alt-x to toggle transparency and alt-w to minimize/maximize viewports. Are there any hotkeys that I need to frequently use in blender or is everything in a menu that I can find without going through a dozen submenus. I also like just holding shift to scale/move new polys/vertices/edges out. Is this possible?
I know there’s a way to use 4 quadrants instead of 1. Does it have all the features 3DS Max does? Mostly looking for being able to set one port for right, one for front (or some two flat plane views depending on the geometry), one with edges showing, and one without edges showing. This has really helped me in 3DS max.
Does smoothing groups have an equivalent in blender? I can’t seem to find it.
The camera and light. Do I need to leave it there or can I remove them. I just don’t see the point when I’m polygon modeling it just gets in the way.
Can I move the left menu over to the right menu and somehow merge them together? To me, it just feel like it belongs over there. I’m fine with menus above and menus on the right but not on the left. That’s not my only issue though, I just feel like parts of the right menu and parts of the left menu should be on the right menu together.
Can I save all my preferences somehow? Like, not just my hotkeys or not just my viewport layout but my entire workspace? Or should I make a template.blend?
I realize I must sound very annoying complaining about a program you probably love to death. I hope you can understand that it really just comes down to personal preference and Blender does not fit the bill for me. I also realize a lot of these things I could have googled, but having people who use blender everyday help me configure it to meet the goals I listed above would be invaluable. Thanks so much for any help you’re willing to offer.
At least 80-90% of your questions are already answered in this forum or others, so instead of writing such a long post singing the beauty of 3dsmax and the ugliness of blender you could spend the time searching the answers by yourself. I don’t love blender particularly, it has it’s flaws like any other software and it’s not even my tool of choice for work, but you’re just being rude saying such things about the work of people at blender foundation. Is perfectly fine to state your point of view about it (and you stated a few valid points), but calling it repulsive it’s rude and won’t make developers to take your suggestions in to account faster if at all,and don’t expect it to be changed the way “your brain works” by whining. If you want blender to be changed in any aspect you should ask politely or at support it financially. If not, you find 3dsmax easier, so stick to it and play with it, but believe me when I say that there’s no beauty in 3dsmax. I worked with it for almost 20 years and it’s the worst, more overrated and overpriced piece of code ever produced by any company, full of ancient bugs and useless features. Plus, there’s a ton of info about blender all over the internet for cases like yours about trying to keep your work under your own control.
No worries. Whatever the post contains, it’s well structured. One doesn’t go through posts by reading each from the first letter to the last one, but rather first taking an overall glance which sums up statistics about the content and interest points without actually reading it.
This one had clearly separated information about loving 3ds max and hating Blender, followed by something about users selling Blender, which is great. That is the only information one needs about the rest of the post and the user, which neither are about getting support on a support forum nor working with the community.
@Anyone reading this
For the love of all that’s good in the world think before you post a reply.
@Lushen
Just to be clear. I don’t belong to a “faction”. Programs serve a purpose. Nothing more. They certainly aren’t worthy of irrational attachment. Hatred or otherwise.
3dsmax is a well respected program because it’s developed an excellent reputation in the CG industry. Not because it’s pretty. Not that I agree with that assessment. It also has a price tag. And that’s just the way it is. If you love it, pay for it. There is no requirement for any open source program to replicate it.
I don’t see the logic in listing all the things wrong with Blender in your post. What exactly did you expect the members of this site to do about them?
Unfortunately you don’t want to view any tutorials, or take the time to study literature. And of course you obviously “hate” the program you’re asking about. So that leaves it to people to go off and neatly collate the information on your behalf. And then bring it back to you, knowing it’ll probably be greeted with disdain. Possibly leading to a silly flame war.
Ah, another…
Well, serves you right… it’s not how intelligent one can be with words but how tolerant and adaptable is at anytime, able to prove with deeds in immediate action. Practice to persevere.
You’re right. Blender is tough to learn and it isn’t always fun.
Blender was designed by engineers and, despite adamant claims to the contrary, it’s designed for engineers, not artists. That’s why the mindset seems foreign. Many others have tried to get this across in the past, but the responses are defensive and so the issue has never been properly discussed. Coming onto this forum and pointing all this out is like walking on stage at a string theory symposium and asking for experimental proof. Not only will you not get it, you might need bodyguards to get out of the room. Any time the non-artistic mindset of Blender is brought up, the prevailing response is, “We’re not going to dumb it down just for you.” And the point that’s always ignored is that no one is asking them to dumb it down, just to bring the terminology and workflow into the wheelhouse of the artist with a few real-world analogies thrown in (like 3DS Max’s approach to simulating real light bulbs, right down to entering the wattage).
There is a new effort underway referred to as Blender 101. It’s supposed to address this issue, but I watched the promo video wherein some of the developers were interviewed and to a man, they claimed that Blender is already oriented toward artists. So, I’m doing a wait-n-see.
I use Blender because, having come this far and bent my artist’s mindset to fit as best I can—a daily struggle—I’m too stubborn to stop. Also, like you, I can’t afford something that’s already tailored to artists, like Max.
So, I wish you luck, Lushen. Don’t let the harsh criticism put you off. These guys are passionate about Blender and, like string theory insiders, it’s hard for them to admit there’s an elephant in the room.
EDIT:
As a post-script… The results output by Blender and its adherents rivals those of any other software available, no matter how ridiculously priced those other options are. That’s another thing that keeps me going. Every time some odd behaviour comes up that sends me from my chair to bang my head against a wall, I come back because Blender is free. Where the cost lies is in the time it takes to learn. But since I’ve got tons of time on my hands and no money (and I refuse to rent software from anyone, ever) I’m willing to stick with it.
And I’m not just saying that to be a poo poo head, all to often I find what I will call for the lack of a better term “professional trolls” who will echo what has been said before with wonderful prose, and yet they seem to have a shallow understanding of the topic at hand.
Now I’m not saying you are one, but understand it could help the casual and disinterested viewer lend credibility to your claims if you provided a blender vs max artwork example to back your claim. And I truly hate doing the ad hominum attack (due mostly to it looking bad on me) but there is a time where one has to ask themselves if they are being trolled when they look at the person on their first post as they issue some flammable forum fodder, or at the very least a semi interested viewer might find themselves asking what the @OP hoped to accomplish, is this a final F-You to a community, is it a cry for help, or is it someone looking to make a name for themselves?
I don’t view programs as something to be passionate about. Although I can be passionate about the things people create with them. I’ve used Max myself and quite a few other programs. I look at them no differently. They have their own “elephants” too.
The op could quite easily have posted a short request for information, and left it at that. Of course they make it slightly difficult to be accommodating when by their own admission they don’t like doing a bit of study.
In some ways the post is contradictory. There is a possibility it’s just some trolling. Which is why I urged people to think about it, before they reply.
I think the biggest difference between Blender and—for instance—3DS Max is that you can do absolutely anything with either, but where Max gives you a light bulb analogy where you can pick your wattage and bulb shape (I don’t remember if it does the latter, but bear with me), Blender gives you the science and parts to build your own light bulb. It takes longer—and far more experimentation—to get one that works in the environment you put it in, but the end results can be the same.
And Macser, had I been aware of your presence here, I wouldn’t have included you in ‘these guys.’ And you’re right. Every software application has its elephant.
Now if you’ll all excuse me, my wife is making cookies.
From your words it is very clear you are an absolute beginner. You don’t use the pivot, hence it should be gone?
If you don’t understand the concept of 3d cursor, which is an absolutely essential for anything remotely resembling serious modeling, than this is not the software’s fault.
Your frustration stems from you inexperience and lack of understanding basic rules/concepts of 3d, not just Blender (no, you don’t need a camera and light in your scene to model). 3d is not easy and not for everyone and somehow thinking that that your ‘definition’ of ‘intuitive’ should apply to all 3d programs, wait till you try Zbrush. You will shit your pants and then some. If you are not in some way mentally impaired, learning Blender should not be any harder than learning any other 3d app. Because it is not.
I know you said that you didn’t want to be told “you will get used to blender and like it more”, but that’s honestly what it takes.
I came from Cinema 4D, and the entire workflow was so alien to me it’s untrue. Far too many keyboard shortcuts, not enough simple icons and drop down etc. etc. etc. Even node based materials were alien to me.
However, once you learn those shortcuts, and once you learn those node based materials, it becomes in itself so much more intuitive. The initial curve is very difficult, but it gets easier.
Now, on the rare occasions I jump back to C4D, it feels slow and cumbersome. The material system in Blender is so much more flexible, and much faster to work with.
Having said that, I feel your pain. It doesn’t work how you expect it to when you start. If you do decide to persevere, you’ll wonder how you worked any other way.
@lushen - The answer is yes, there is a way to do what you want. I too dislike the blender interface, it’s very unintuitive. And things break sometimes, and you just don’t know why. And some things just flat out don’t work, no matter what you do. But, for free, it’s infinitely better than the other free software. And you haven’t bought an autodesk engineer a new maserati at the end of the day.
But you can make it much easier to use. Go into preferences, and in the “input” table, change the preset to “3dsmax”. Instantly, things become easier and more intuitive. However this comes at a price, all the tutorials that say things like “Press W to do this” (etc) no longer work. You might also try “Maya” mode, I ended up using that one because it was more like the Unity interface.
Thanks so much. I actually tried using the 3DS Max controls before but for some reason when I chose the 3DS Max preset it decided not to actually change any of my controls. I decided I wanted all my models, textures, etc. on Linux instead of Windows (one plus of switching to Blender). When I got it working on Linux the 3DS Max preset worked like a charm, it’s so much easier to use. It would have taken me multiple days to get a preset like this by changing the inputs myself. I also hid the 3d cursor through an addon (if you really think you NEED a 3d cursor at all times you should try downloading a trial of 3DS Max…) Unfortunately, it’s very necessary in Blender so I’m not sure toggling it on and off will be a good idea in the end.
My main issue I’m running into now is having 3 menus. I don’t have a very large screen and I like working in quad view so three menus is just way too much for me. Has someone found a way to condense them all to the right side? I know it sounds crazy, but it worked in 3DS Max. Specifically, my issue is I can’t get parts from the left and right menu (transform and tools/create/edit) to go into the properties window. Is there an addon or something that merges these all together without having a huge mess? I’m also fine with having things at the top just not the right and left and additionally I don’t want two menus on the right side.
Thanks to those who have offered their kind words of encouragement. I am going to try to learn some of the blender features I can’t replace. So far, it’s getting better the more I play with it. If I can get a few more things squared away, it will be a lot more enjoyable for me.
I am not going to acknowledge those of you who haven’t read my post because you assume I’m “Another one of those”. My thread is uniquely written for me and my experiences, I don’t think you can just read a small section of it and criticize me for having a different view than you. I can respect your love for Blender’s interface, I just don’t have it. Nothing wrong with that.
I know this is an old thread. But as a Max user I was finding a similar clunkiness to Blender that makes it a little inhibiting starting out. Even to someone familiar from other tools like Max and Maya I used at work in the past.
Anyway, I just wanted to mention something I found today that as a long time max user made blender feel immediately more familiar. It’s a plugin by NevilArt’s BSmax on github that does a great job of adding some 3ds max like UI functionality to Blender. I only started using it today, it basically gives you a max like quad menu and the ability to create mesh primitives, shapes, Lights and cameras (including target varieties) interactively similar to 3ds max.
Instead of appearing at the origin at a fixed size and having to tweak them, you can simply drag a box of sphere, shape interactively anywhere, or drag a light/camera and its target wherever you want them to point at. It also has other editing options in the quad menu for quick modeling operations if you don’t yet know the keyboard shortcuts of blender.
I only touched the surface so far since it doesn’t have much in the way of documentation without browsing the changelog. But it works well and made me instantly more comfortable adding some basic things that a max user takes for granted.
Just putting this out there for anyone else coming from max to blender. Cheers.
5 years on it’s pretty hard to have the same problems with Blender as some of the original complaints. Many have been addressed since 2017:
The interface has since been dramatically simplified and unified, left-click function is not longer the default, the design is tasty AF now. The hotkeys are pretty good, I think they just need to work a bit more in there, particularly for the amazing sculpting workflow. Aside from that, it’s pretty easy now to look up functions even if you mis-pell them (F3), and it remembers your last search for repetitive tasks.
The UI and viewports are easier to swap over than ever, so less to complain about in terms of not having quad views set up how you like them.
Granted the OP could have done more research about the other things, and maybe waited till after the latest frustration to post. There are now many industry people here who take note of how you treat people. Nobody wants to help or hire someone condescending, no matter how good their opinion. I’ve seen so much job turn overs of intelligent jerks in my career vs friendly people of any skill level! Nothing wrong with having your opinion, but social intelligence is essential to success both here and in the real world.
I first used 3ds max when I was 12, (29 now) and only switched to Blender from modo in 2018. So I can kind of relate, and I too have said things I wish I could have said differently. I’m sure the OP has become more diplomatic since then
We’re got a lot more in terms of what you can do with modifiers and how you can extend that. Everything in the trunk has since been improved.
Also using Geometry nodes, you can animate primitives, and more primitives are being added to that list.
It’s pretty hard to find any major differences in function. Check out ‘Arrimus 3D’ in Youtube to see an example of how Blender has been adopted by predominately 3ds Max users. You’ll notice many of the same practices apply.
I’ve switched from 3ds Max to Blender not long before the OP, and have no regrets whatsoever. For my purposes (lowpoly character modeling for animation and games), 3ds Max workflow is absolute garbage. Everything what is important for character creation (skin weights, shape keys, UV unwrap) is split between multiple modifiers. Even worse, those modifiers are topology dependent, meaning you’ll lose your UV edits or weights if you, say, need to add an extra edge loop to your character. While in Blender, all the features I’ve mentioned are integrated into Edit mode. I can switch seamlessly between mesh and UV editing, for example. Even if Max has potentially better gimmicks, they are so poorly integrated between eachother that they could as well belong to different programs. Which reflects specifics of 3ds Max’s development process, which mostly consisted of Discreet and Autodesk buying plug-ins from other companies to destroy the competition, then “forgetting” about them. Max has 2 separate systems for character skinning/weighting (Skin and Physique) and 3-for character rigging (regular bones, CAT and Biped); which largely do the same thing but some of them haven’t been updated since past century (Physique at least) and left with poor ergonomics. In general, about 50% of 3ds Max is a landfill of redundancies and obsolete features, which do nothing but waste disk space and sabotage stability. Blender Foundation reworked their mesh system from scratch between 2.6 and 2.7 since it was lacking; Autodesk still holds to outdated systems like Editable Mesh. Speaking of stability, thats final nail in Max’s coffin; even if the modifier system there is more powerful on paper, stacking more than three of them causes constant crashes and even data corruption. 3ds Max its slightly more beginner friendly and has better performance in some operations, and that’s about it for this program
Thanks for the tips @Simon1 The F3 feature is pretty handy even if the terms are not always the same and I struggle to find some things. Like Blender seems to use merge instead of weld and I couldn’t find weld edges or snapping objects to other object via their vertices with vertex snap. Some things I take for granted and are probably there somewhere.
I will check out Arrimus 3D see whether he has anything helpful for a fairly fluent if somewhat dated max user.
@DeckardX08 I know what you mean regarding animation. I fell in love with CAT initially when it was first integrated into max for free. Until the crashing started and then the max file I was animating a character in got corrupted, but it wasn’t obvious till several saves later and you tried to edit one of the earlier animation cycles.
I only just came back to max recently and it seems CAT works flawlessly now, the arnold renderer is really nice and as far as I can tell significantly faster than cycles on my RTX video card.
I used to work in game dev a couple of decades ago. Didn’t blender used to go by another name originally, I vaguely remember going to a Game dev conference in the mid/late 90’s where there was a new commercial 3D modeler very similar to blender with a bit of a lightwave vibe to it. It didn’t last long but everyone at the conference were handed free CD’s with the software on. It was pretty impressive, but everyone was using Max and newly ported Softimage and then Maya turned up. But for some reason I think that software ended up becoming Blender. It’s all a bit fuzzy now hah.
I’m certainly not going to knock blender. It’s amazing especially when you consider the price and features.
Right now I’m more into traditional drawing and painting, I was mostly thinking of using Daz and 3ds max for mockups for my paintings, just quick roughed out scenery with some realistic lit figures for lighting reference. I discovered Blender has the only exporter that actually works pretty much perfectly, so I started using it because it was too much hassle getting the figures into Max looking the way they were intended.
It was Polycosm on youtube that motivated me to try and get to grips with Blender.
