American poor people pay over 75% tax, while the rich pay nothing


(fitz301) #61

Prove it.

They’re given free food, water, shelter, and access to free education as soon as they cross the border, the American taxpayers get to foot the $5,000 in the cost of fines because they broke the law.

Now multiply that by the thousands that cross every single day.

NONE of them pay taxes, because to be a taxpayer requires at the very least a valid social security number, which they don’t and never will possess, hence the term “illegal”.

They’re not even checked for contagious diseases anymore, because THAT would be “racist”.


(Renzatic) #62

I don’t have to prove anything. You’re the one making the assertion. Prove it to me that you’re right. Make me eat my own words.

Prove that our illegal immigrants get free housing. Prove they get food and water. Prove that the moment they cross the borders, each and every one of them are eating up millions of dollars a year.

Though keep in mind that I’m hardly an open borders advocate here. The real difference here is that I see it for what it is, a minor to moderate problem that’s already been fairly well addressed, and can be addressed further simply by strengthening the infrastructure we already have in place. You seem to be intent on spewing obvious propaganda concerning an issue that was barely even a wedge issue during its heyday, and became a “crisis” only when someone needed something to throw to voters, regardless of the fact it’s been in a long, slow, yet steady decline since its peak 14 years previous.

Contagious diseases? Another talking point invented primarily because it sounds scary, up there with “BUT THINK ABOUT THE CHILDREN” in terms of stirring up the histrionics. Mexico, Central, and South America have vaccination rates of at least 90%, about on par with what we have here in the States. Sure, a few of them might have the clap, or something like, but it’s not like they’re dragging whole epidemics behind them every time they hop the Rio Grande.


(BluePrintRandom) #63

the majority of the people marching in large packs like that are asylum seekers, whom are to be given refuge under the geneva conventions

these laws state that if you are a refuge because your home country is unsafe, you are to be taken in and cared for.

The problem however is not that we have too many poor people who don’t want to to work,

the problem is we have too many people working 40 hrs a week at 3 jobs who can’t afford healthcare.

the problem is jobs are being replaced by automation
(it used to take 95% of us just to grow food for us - without automation and modern ag it takes 1%)

watch this video and refute it if you can with actual facts.

and no, the poor are not taxed 75% and the rich pay nothing this is wrong

the issue is that 1% have as much wealth as the bottom 90%

the issue is that we live disposable lives and waste vast amounts of resources.

the issue is we don’t have healtcare because of people like this dude - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Shkreli


(sundialsvc4) #64

The brutal truth of the matter is quite different that what many of you seem to be suggesting. These people are, in fact, being brutally exploited … long before(!) they arrive at the borders of some other country. Their “rights as human beings” are non-existent.

If someone sneaks across a border, they live in fear of the law from that day forward – which means that they become “people who cannot say ‘no’” to anything that now happens to them. If told to dive into a bucket of herbicide they will do it, lest the Federales show up and cart them away.

And do you seriously imagine that a “refugee” will be fed and clothed for very long, before (s)he is inducted into that system?

These people become, at best, indentured servants, but much more likely slaves.

No one ever talks to them about the option of legal immigration – “naturalization certificates” or any of that garbage – because those people have … rights. Far better to give them “non-immigrant visas,” which put them under the thumb of their “sponsors” just as surely as anyone ever was subjected under any other variety of “indenture.”

(Yes, outlawed by the 13th Amendment to the US Constitution, but we found a nice way around that little paragraph, now didn’t we?)

Full disclosure: I once watched seventeen young Indian men – identically dressed, and dressed to the nines, file out of a one-bedroom apartment in a tony suburb of Nashville, Tennessee, and get onto a bus that would take them to a high-tech job somewhere. I peeked in the window and saw sleeping bags, neatly rolled up. They didn’t have cars. They couldn’t drive. And they dared not say a word about their living or working conditions … in the former case, “highly illegal, but, there they were.”

No, don’t think good things about these so-called “immigrants.” Pity them. And, become very angry at the people who subject them to the things that they are subjected to. (For instance, the people who drove other people on foot the length of Mexico as though they were just so many cattle, and told mothers to throw their children over a fence.)


(BluePrintRandom) #65

right now the large caravans that were publicized WERE ASYLUM SEEKERS

But the caravan is real. The migrants in it — mostly Hondurans (with some Guatemalans), half of whom are girls and women, many intending to seek asylum in the US — are real people

vilified by our foul president in a effort to draw praise about his idiotic wall idea.


#66

A large number of the people sneaking across the border are running from the law. They have done very bad things and now run for the United States.

Another problem on the border, is human trafficking. Kids are taken from the US and into Mexico. The wall would slow it down for a little time.


(BluePrintRandom) #67

https://crim.sas.upenn.edu/fact-check/do-mexican-immigrants-cause-crime

To summarize, while it is right for Americans to be concerned about the equality of the immigrants we attract, there is simply no evidence to support that Mexican immigration should be a cause for concern. If anything, there is quite a bit of evidence that the immigrants we attract from Mexico serve to make us safer than we otherwise would be.


#68

And now look at this one.

It says they many of them kill people. The crimes are not reported.


(Renzatic) #69

There’s a lot of possibilies, maybes, and conjectures in that article.


(BluePrintRandom) #70

Trump and his goons are trying to use Xenophobia to play on fragile white men’s fear.

in reality, We are safer then we have ever been.
image

we attract people whom are fleeing violence and want to work.


(Helmut S.) #71

Well, it certainly is one possible result of applied Darwinism, but please provide proof for your claim that there’s no other alternative than being suppressed by North Korea’s inflated toddler and a free reign of what we call “economy”, because your claim is just a piece of ideology otherwise. There have, for instance, been quite a couple of societies in human history which valued proficiency in war & combat waaay above economic success … not that I’d like to have it that way, but … you see, it is a matter of choice whether you pray to the God of economical growth … or not.

Btw, seeing problems some of us seem to have with “the rich” as some kind of envy exclusively … well, that’s a rather simplifying and defaming claim, a piece of rhethoric well fitting those who like things to stay as they are. It happens that those without money are bossed around by those possessing it, so maybe that’s also reason for some of the grumbling? Being free, that’s not a matter of tribes, flocks, packs and nations. Freedom is acquired or lost by individual beings, everything else is just some Sith mind trick to keep people together in packs and have them governed. :slight_smile:


(Helmut S.) #72

Yes they have, it is called “life time”, and those being lucky enough to be born at a spot where riches are easy to acquire are making good use of it.


(Ace Dragon) #73

I meant the economic system, not the political one.

In their system, the state controls all means of production and everyone only has what the state allows them to have. There is no income inequality and no upper class in this case because everyone is poor. You are miserable, but so is everyone else.

Now of course in all countries that do away with most forms of capitalism and private industry, the people in the government gladly exempt themselves from their own rules and as a result become quite wealthy.


(burnin) #74

misery is a word defining a state of mind & not a state of material property, although it is often misplaced and personified - i see more misery within minds dependent on illusive ownership (ie. mind, reason trying to own and control the body) - try not to mix psychology (perception) with philosophy (idea, belief) with physics (matter)
also, one of the greatest advertising tricks & propaganda is the pursuit of happiness
… everything and all for the society of spectacle (work)
some food for thought and to exercise the critical idea


(Ace Dragon) #75

If you want to test that theory, you might consider living in Venezuela for a few months and see if you’re content while not having things like toilet paper and food, because the government there tried to take thorough control of the market (in the name of helping the common man) down to setting the prices.


(burnin) #76

It only proves the bad side of being dependent on the Master. Humanists are well aware of Master - Slave relationship. Couple of centuries after, human still believes ignorance is a bliss (which is known to be wrong since the time of Rome - ignorantia iuris nocet). Don’t be fooled. Ignorance is no excuse to demand justice based of personal perception.

And BTW, to live in peace means to fight constantly (but don’t mistake fight for a War or physical violence… know your history)


(BeerBaron) #77

@BluePrintRandom

How much money do you think the super-rich have? All the wealth (cash, stock, real estate…) of all the billionaires in the world adds up to $9.2 trillion. Health care in the U.S. alone adds up to over 3.5 trillion per year. So you couldn’t even pay three years of US healthcare by fully expropriating all the billionaires in the world.

You can tax the rich all you want, it won’t change anything fundamentally. It has been tried over and over again and it’s still a popular way to capture clueless voters for infeasible political promises.


(Renzatic) #79

The same could be said of just about any promise made by this most recent set of politicians.

I usually get funny looks when I say this, but I consider both Bernie Sanders and Donald Trump, despite their ideological differences, as being cut from the same cloth. You could argue that one takes a more positive spin to populism than the other, but at the end of the day, both built their platforms upon the notion that America isn’t as good as it could be, that it isn’t being fair to YOU, and that these problems can be fixed via various vaguely defined promises that sound great on the stump, but don’t illustrate much of anything at all.


(BeerBaron) #80

Yes, to be fair, the promise that cutting taxes for the rich pays for itself because then they’ll create all sorts of jobs is equally unrealistic.

The point is, all those rich people won’t solve your problems, whether you pamper them, soak them, or eat them.


(Renzatic) #81

Overtaxing them certainly won’t. All that would achieve is creating a new set of problems as they find more ways to hide their money in offshore accounts, or leave the country entirely, taking their money with them, for friendlier tax havens.

Though I would say this recent push towards pandering to rich, incorporated interests above all other considerations are equally likely to cause us issues just as many issues further down the road.

We all need to understand that there’s a massive gradient between choosing to treat big businesses and billionaires as the pampered, ever wise source of all prosperity in the country, and outright punishing them for their successes.